Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

It's somewhat ironic that Liverpool messageboards and forums criticise the likes of Sky and the press for spinning stories out of mid-air and then an unsubstantiated piece of gossip like this comes along and people are giving it credence.

People believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary - stats etc

[account deleted by request]

Been reading on another forum that when Babel went to give Carra the Captains arm band last night, Carra told him to "just keep it"? My stream went down last night so I didn't see it ...... did anyone else ?

[Sabre]

In all fairness though I just don't believe that a player such as Carra would refuse to play at right back. He might have said he'd prefer not to play here (Gerrard has done similar in the past) but he'd never refuse.

Yeh, that too. We don't know the tone of the refusal or if it was a refusal. We might have a honest player saying "Gaffer, it's a game that won't have problems at RB and sincerely think Javier would do a better job, plus I see myself very unconfident in the position, if i have no option I'll play RB, but if there's another option, please don't".

It wouldn't be the same thing to "WTF!! RB again? where are yer Degen and Arbeloa options FFS!!"

Certainly scenario two would deserve more criticism than the first. And we simply don't know the story.

[JoeTerp]

Been reading on another forum that when Babel went to give Carra the Captains arm band last night, Carra told him to "just keep it"? My stream went down last night so I didn't see it ...... did anyone else ?

yea I saw it, i think play was just about to restart and Babel would have had to run way out of position. Don't know if it ever got into Carras hands, I wasn't paying attention looking for it for the rest of the game. 

Seems that there is a lack of respect for the actual physical armband itself. When I see Raul come off for Real Madrid he places it on the arm of vice captain and then comes off. Maybe its just a time wasting tactic, but it seems like there is real respect for the colors, which are on the actual band, unlike ours which just says "CAPTAIN"

[account deleted by request]

  Yeah there are no problems with a player dictating TACTICS to his manager

"What do you mean will I play fullback Rafa? .....I am fkn telling you Rafa they won't be a threat down the wings mate its through the middle we will have to watch them. Just stick Masch at fullback and I will sort out the middle, and by the way you had better play Benayoun tonight we need more creativity up front."

[zarababe]

RAFA won't loose the dressing room.. the players will loose every time - no nonsense that's Benitez

[Redbilly1960]

Been reading on another forum that when Babel went to give Carra the Captains arm band last night, Carra told him to "just keep it"? My stream went down last night so I didn't see it ...... did anyone else ?

Carra was wearing the captains armband and I am sure he had more important things on his mind than rushing to take it from Babel. I don't think its that important an issue if he was wearing the band or not or if he told Babel who proberbly was running 50 yards to give it to him to feck off and get back in position. We should be discussing more important things like who the feck cut Lucas's hair 

[Madmax]

i think next we should experiement alonso at right back or maybe give kuyt a go..

[JC_81]

Don't know the ins and outs of Carra refusing to play RB, in fact none of us do.

It does bring us on to another debate though.  Should Carragher still be regarded as undroppable?

IMO he played his best football from the 2004/05 season to 2006/07 seasons.  He was immense those 3 years, especially during our two runs to the CL final.  But I feel that last season and this season, his performances haven't been as consistent.  Still a good player, but I do feel he hasn't been the Carragher of Benitez's first 3 seasons here.  Anyone else agree/disagree with this?

[account deleted by request]

Been reading on another forum that when Babel went to give Carra the Captains arm band last night, Carra told him to "just keep it"? My stream went down last night so I didn't see it ...... did anyone else ?

Carra was wearing the captains armband and I am sure he had more important things on his mind than rushing to take it from Babel. I don't think its that important an issue if he was wearing the band or not or if he told Babel who proberbly was running 50 yards to give it to him to feck off and get back in position. We should be discussing more important things like who the feck cut Lucas's hair 

Typical of a youngster from the 60's generation hairstyle over substance  comment

[Number 9]

Don't know the ins and outs of Carra refusing to play RB, in fact none of us do.

It does bring us on to another debate though.  Should Carragher still be regarded as undroppable?

IMO he played his best football from the 2004/05 season to 2006/07 seasons.  He was immense those 3 years, especially during our two runs to the CL final.  But I feel that last season and this season, his performances haven't been as consistent.  Still a good player, but I do feel he hasn't been the Carragher of Benitez's first 3 seasons here.  Anyone else agree/disagree with this?

I agree mate but I think its more to do with not having Hyypia beside him as much.To be perfectly straight,Hyypia is IMO one of the best centre backs the prem has seen in a generation.Him and Carra were rock solid,probably the best pairing around at the time.The thing is now though Skrtel and agger just are not anywhere near the quality of the big man and never will be.Carra simply has more to do now without Hyypia beside him!I also get the feeling he does not 100% trust or feel at ease with Skrtel or Agger beside him yet!

As for Carra refusing to play right back,well it must be true it said on Sky!
If it is true,Id say it was because he felt it would be better for the team if he played in the centre,I doubt he refused more likely pointed out to the manager his opinion.It would not have been cause thats what HE wanted,hes not a selfish player!
As for people suggesting Rafa has "lost the players" or "is loosing the players".Wishful thinking,a fantasy for people that want the manager out.
Anyone notice Carra barking orders pointing organizing the players around him last night?I did..and he sure as feck did'nt look like a player that did'nt care and had a selfish agenda!
I guess though that a lot are at a stage now that they can manipulate any situation in their heads to some sort of negative..the managers fault of course!
Holy feck I hope Gerrard/Alonso etc does'nt get a virus or something and miss a few days training..cause it will be "he does'nt want to go to training cause Rafa is taking it"on here!
Paranoia is infecting the lot of ye to the core!

[bigmick]

Don't know the ins and outs of Carra refusing to play RB, in fact none of us do.

It does bring us on to another debate though.  Should Carragher still be regarded as undroppable?

IMO he played his best football from the 2004/05 season to 2006/07 seasons.  He was immense those 3 years, especially during our two runs to the CL final.  But I feel that last season and this season, his performances haven't been as consistent.  Still a good player, but I do feel he hasn't been the Carragher of Benitez's first 3 seasons here.  Anyone else agree/disagree with this?

His performances have been a bit up and down John I think, but he's still our best centra half by miles in my opinion. As it happens he was excellent against Sunderland, using all his experience to completely nullify the aerial threat of an admittedly extremely disappointing Kenwyn Jones.

He probably fits best with Agger in many ways, the Dane's class on the ball compensating for Carra's somewhat more basic interpretation of what should be done with posession. Unfortunately though, the manager probably feels that together, the sum of the two parts leaves a little bit to be desired in terms of pure defensive solidity, winning headers, making tackles etc. Despite Skyrtels tendency to ball watch a couple of times per match, he is a good combative defender and so we do get the solidity. Unfortunately, he is only marginally better than Carra at distributing the football (although he dribbles it quite well for a centre half curiously) so this does cause us to lose something in an attacking sense.

Perhaps that slightly undermines Carra as well, in that he has to share in the "bring it out for the back" duties, whereas when Agger's there he pretty much does it and Carra just defends. unsurprisingly, I don't think the fact we play a different left back each match helps anyone in particular, while obviously Carra himself has been shunted about a bit which probably doesn't do him any favours.

All in all though I'd be amazed if he isn't one of the first names on the team sheet next season, regardless of who is the manager. I think a couple of games of Agger/Skyrtel, or Hyppia with on eof the other two and no Carra would quite quickly make us all appreciate Carragher again. Maybe not quite what he was, but still a good player, and when he's got a Liverpool shirt on he is bordering on being an excellent one.

[Redbilly1960]

Been reading on another forum that when Babel went to give Carra the Captains arm band last night, Carra told him to "just keep it"? My stream went down last night so I didn't see it ...... did anyone else ?

Carra was wearing the captains armband and I am sure he had more important things on his mind than rushing to take it from Babel. I don't think its that important an issue if he was wearing the band or not or if he told Babel who proberbly was running 50 yards to give it to him to feck off and get back in position. We should be discussing more important things like who the feck cut Lucas's hair 

Typical of a youngster from the 60's generation hairstyle over substance  comment

Maybe watching Terry McDermott and Kevin Keegan for many years has shrouded my footballing judgement were have those perms gone 

[JC_81]

Agree with both Barry and Mick here.

I accept that Hyypia being a bit older and not playing is part of the problem.  Sami is the best defender we've had in the last 20 years imo, probably since Hansen in his prime.  Agger and Skrtel are good, but not fit to lace the big man's boots when he was in his prime.

The lack of consistency in selection at the back hasn't helped either imo.  He's been played right back, centre back, right back etc and has had 3 central defensive partners this season.  That doesn't help his form at all.

That said he has definitely been making more individual mistakes the last few seasons and is perhaps starting to lose a yard of pace himself.

[bigmick]

Don't know the ins and outs of Carra refusing to play RB, in fact none of us do.

It does bring us on to another debate though.  Should Carragher still be regarded as undroppable?

IMO he played his best football from the 2004/05 season to 2006/07 seasons.  He was immense those 3 years, especially during our two runs to the CL final.  But I feel that last season and this season, his performances haven't been as consistent.  Still a good player, but I do feel he hasn't been the Carragher of Benitez's first 3 seasons here.  Anyone else agree/disagree with this?

I agree mate but I think its more to do with not having Hyypia beside him as much.To be perfectly straight,Hyypia is IMO one of the best centre backs the prem has seen in a generation.Him and Carra were rock solid,probably the best pairing around at the time.The thing is now though Skrtel and agger just are not anywhere near the quality of the big man and never will be.Carra simply has more to do now without Hyypia beside him!I also get the feeling he does not 100% trust or feel at ease with Skrtel or Agger beside him yet!

As for Carra refusing to play right back,well it must be true it said on Sky!
If it is true,Id say it was because he felt it would be better for the team if he played in the centre,I doubt he refused more likely pointed out to the manager his opinion.It would not have been cause thats what HE wanted,hes not a selfish player!
As for people suggesting Rafa has "lost the players" or "is loosing the players".Wishful thinking,a fantasy for people that want the manager out.
Anyone notice Carra barking orders pointing organizing the players around him last night?I did..and he sure as feck did'nt look like a player that did'nt care and had a selfish agenda!
I guess though that a lot are at a stage now that they can manipulate any situation in their heads to some sort of negative..the managers fault of course!
Holy feck I hope Gerrard/Alonso etc does'nt get a virus or something and miss a few days training..cause it will be "he does'nt want to go to training cause Rafa is taking it"on here!
Paranoia is infecting the lot of ye to the core!

I don't know about paranoia, but I kind of agree with Barry in that the story just seems too unbelieveable to me, it doesn't hang together. For starters, I think if Carragher had refused to play right back I don't think he would have played at all. Put it this way, if he did refuse to play right back and Rafa said "ok then play centre half" then the manager is a dead man walking in terms of the job. Even if the player is entirely justified, you cannot have players dictating where they are going to play.

More likely mI think is that Carra could see the writing on the wall given Arbeloa's injury and approached the manager BEFORE he picked the team. At thart stage, if he told Rafa that although he is normally right back cover, he really isn't feeling up to it right now and if the manager could find another alternative it'd be good, everything is Ok. He could possibly as an add on stick in the "but of course if you're absolutely stuck..." and for me then it all works.

Needless to say I wouldn't blame Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso and the rest for having severe misgivings about the way the whole campaign has been handled by the manager, and therefore becoming "lost" to Rafa. Players talk to each other, and for instance the sale of Keane without buying a replacement was a monumnetal blunder which was always likely to backfire, and of course it has in spectacular fashion. Seasoned players who may not have seasons left could jusfifiably feel miffed and 'lost" about such abject incompetence, but I simply can't believe that that is what we're seeing here.

I don't believe the story without any insider knowledge, unless someone can venture some.