Liverpool FC Forum

by **kazza** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:37 am

I see Dossena as a Raffa pick, I see Torres as a Raffa pick but I never saw Keane as a Raffa choice ( I may well be wrong). Torres is great, I think Dossena is better than he has shown us and I put his lack of form to a lack of assimilation in England (Scouseland). Keane I always saw as average and would have taken him if the price was right (which at 20 million it was not). I cannot believe Raffa rated him at 20 million and "does not play him", something else is going on, aside from the fact he is not playing well.

The other thread Mick charted a number of different events and opinions and this is yet another one. The fact that good opinions are given on this thread is the very reason it should have added but it is no big deal really.

by **aCe'** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:13 pm

kazza wrote:I see Dossena as a Raffa pick, I see Torres as a Raffa pick but I never saw Keane as a Raffa choice ( I may well be wrong). Torres is great, I think Dossena is better than he has shown us and I put his lack of form to a lack of assimilation in England (Scouseland). Keane I always saw as average and would have taken him if the price was right (which at 20 million it was not). I cannot believe Raffa rated him at 20 million and "does not play him", something else is going on, aside from the fact he is not playing well.

The other thread Mick charted a number of different events and opinions and this is yet another one. The fact that good opinions are given on this thread is the very reason it should have added but it is no big deal really.

keane might not be worth 20 mill... but if it came down to a choice of Keane or Kuyt.. who would you rather play ?

lets just take it as a given (for arguments' sake) that Parry was the one who signed Keane, and that Rafa wanted nothing to do with it...

given the players we have atm.. and the contribution of the players from what we'v seen so far, can u seriously defend Rafa for dropping Keane when hes done so ?!

Keane hasnt been the most prolific of strikers but looking at our other players and what theyv done, i reckon you can blame kuyt for not scoring enough, riera for not creating enough, mascherano for failing to perform, dossena for existing..etc etc... all by the same token

it all comes down to how the manager uses WHAT HES GOT... regardless of whom it is who was behind the transfer... for him to drop a player after hes scored 2, simply because he wasnt the one who signed him is childish not to mention detrimental to the team (as was proved to be the cse against Stoke)...

Talking about progress though... i see progress in our league position SO FAR... not sure if it will last till the end of the season... personally i think we'r most likely end up 3rd closely behind chelsea and quite a few points behind manutd...

in terms of mentality and attitude in approaching games (especially against weaker opposition), we have failed to improve enough imo... i think benitez isnt sure the side has what it takes to go out and play weaker opposition out of the park more often than not.. it shows in our lineups, and it shows in the way our players aproach certain games... its frustrating and it isnt doing our title hopes any good..

in a nutshell, yes we have improved in some aspects.. but we'r still some way short of looking like a serious title winning side.

by **Sabre** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:27 pm

I don't believe this theory of Keane being a Parry choice.

We know Rafa, we know his 'obsession' to find the best starting eleven, and we've seen Rafa relying on Keane from moment one, and continuously in the first games of the season.

Then, probably worried by Keane's (a quality player IMHO) lack of goals he's been giving chances to others, or rotated him a la Rafa, but I don't see anything unusual on that, Rafa never looked at the price tag or reputation to sit somebody down.

I don't see a direct relationship between what Rafa says in that article and the notion that Keane might not be a Rafa signing.

For me all signings are Rafa's. There are some Rafa signings, like the Barry one, that are not made reality, that's when we should look at Parry. The fact Keane's deal was made, and Barry's deal wasn't, doesn't mean the former is a Parry player.

It may mean that for Parry it was more important to get Keane than Barry, but it doesn't mean Keane was a less Rafa player than Barry.

Probably Rafa wanted Barry badly. Probably, Barry was wanted by Rafa so badly, that it was not directly related to the fact Rafa said Alonso had a price. So Parry faced that deal without the possible millions Alonso could leave if he left, independently of Alonso staying or not.

And under that circunstances, Parry didn't yield to O'Neils' money demands. I think what Rafa is demanding is the authority to say "fúck it, we'll pay those extra 2M pounds" at some point.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:59 am

bigmick wrote:I know I've been accused (rightly) of being overly condescending, taking the p!ss etc etc but it's quite hard to take people seriously sometimes it really is.

A fuc.king MEN Brother

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:10 am

Well we either agree that I'm too condescending and take the p!ss too much, or that you can't take people seriously sometimes

Not sure which it is but any agreement is good.

Interesting one though this idea that Rafa didn't want Keane and that Rick Parry signed him. Wonder if many people buy into that one?

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:20 am

bigmick wrote:Well we either agree that I'm too condescending and take the p!ss too much, or that you can't take people seriously sometimes Not sure which it is but any agreement is good.

Interesting one though this idea that Rafa didn't want Keane and that Rick Parry signed him. Wonder if many people buy into that one?

I dont.

Rafa has proven he will not be told what to do.

I cant see him having allowed his transfer budget to have been spent by Coco.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:26 am

bigmick wrote:Well we either agree that I'm too condescending and take the p!ss too much, or that you can't take people seriously sometimes Not sure which it is but any agreement is good.

Interesting one though this idea that Rafa didn't want Keane and that Rick Parry signed him. Wonder if many people buy into that one?

Mick I think Leons a bit pi$$ed off cause it feels like you are sitting with the knives sharpened waiting on Rafa making a mistake!Almost as if you want him to put out the wrong team at times so you can write a big long post that really just means..."I told you so"...Pat on the back for Mick!He predicted rotation..give him a star and a free packet of cheese n onion!He was right all along

The thing is though mate..If I keep banging on about the weather for example 365 days a year!Say i predict that theres gonna be a storm every day.The laws of probability predict there will be a storm a few times over the year..so on a few occasions Id be right!
You are too obsessed with your views on rotation,styling and whatever else!I can see that the manager is wrong at times.ALL managers are.Sometimes id love to smack Rafa but I still love him.
For me and from what I read of your posts you want him out but are afraid to say it in plain English!Instead you keep plugging away with little jibes his way.Hoping more troops fall into your train of thought.Maybe Im wrong of course,but recently your posts have suggested this..in an underhand way of course!

**Disclaimer ......There isnt one!

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:45 am

Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Well we either agree that I'm too condescending and take the p!ss too much, or that you can't take people seriously sometimes Not sure which it is but any agreement is good.

Interesting one though this idea that Rafa didn't want Keane and that Rick Parry signed him. Wonder if many people buy into that one?

Mick I think Leons a bit pi$$ed off cause it feels like you are sitting with the knives sharpened waiting on Rafa making a mistake!Almost as if you want him to put out the wrong team at times so you can write a big long post that really just means..."I told you so"...Pat on the back for Mick!He predicted rotation..give him a star and a free packet of cheese n onion!He was right all along

The thing is though mate..If I keep banging on about the weather for example 365 days a year!Say i predict that theres gonna be a storm every day.The laws of probability predict there will be a storm a few times over the year..so on a few occasions Id be right!
You are too obsessed with your views on rotation,styling and whatever else!I can see that the manager is wrong at times.ALL managers are.Sometimes id love to smack Rafa but I still love him.
For me and from what I read of your posts you want him out but are afraid to say it in plain English!Instead you keep plugging away with little jibes his way.Hoping more troops fall into your train of thought.Maybe Im wrong of course,but recently your posts have suggested this..in an underhand way of course!

**Disclaimer ......There isnt one!

Good post that Baz, and who knows whether you're right or not. There are times yes when I think it'd be better if he fecked off, but in the main I think we are better off with him at the moment.

Fairly obviously I don't buy into all the "he's the messiah" stuff, quite simply because I think he has made not just a few but many mistakes while he's been Liverpool manager. Everybody makes them as you rightly point out, but to keep making them over and over and over again gets just as boring for me watching it as it does for you reading me posting about it.

I do though quite like him as well. I think he's an excellent coach, and watching the way he's gone about the job has been educational (and I'm not being sarcy, I mean it). The main thing for me though Baz is I want to win the league, and I don't want the Mancs to go past our total. It starts and stops there, and if I thought we had a better chance with a different manager who was available, I'd get shot of Rafa instantly.

I came out quite openly some time ago and said I think that we'd have more chance of winning the title if Mourinho was manager, and therefore I would take him if he was available. I've said many times that unless Rafa changes his methodology he will will never ever win the English Premier League, it's even in the sig so I'm hardly hiding my true feelings.

He has though this season gone some way towards giving us a chance, and as such I'm supportive of what he's doing. Equally, although I don't think he's Jesus Christ reincarnated, I always point out that I think that in the main he's done a good job, and to challenge this season is a good effort.

It's worth considering though Baz that I've been called allsorts for three seasons, and when those very people who have been dishing it out come out with stuff like Parry signing Keane and not the manager, I'm bound to have a bit of a smile at it. I don't think I'd be human if I didn't think it was slightly funny would I?

Good post though, made me laugh and some very good points too.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:05 am

bigmick wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Well we either agree that I'm too condescending and take the p!ss too much, or that you can't take people seriously sometimes Not sure which it is but any agreement is good.

Interesting one though this idea that Rafa didn't want Keane and that Rick Parry signed him. Wonder if many people buy into that one?

Mick I think Leons a bit pi$$ed off cause it feels like you are sitting with the knives sharpened waiting on Rafa making a mistake!Almost as if you want him to put out the wrong team at times so you can write a big long post that really just means..."I told you so"...Pat on the back for Mick!He predicted rotation..give him a star and a free packet of cheese n onion!He was right all along

The thing is though mate..If I keep banging on about the weather for example 365 days a year!Say i predict that theres gonna be a storm every day.The laws of probability predict there will be a storm a few times over the year..so on a few occasions Id be right!
You are too obsessed with your views on rotation,styling and whatever else!I can see that the manager is wrong at times.ALL managers are.Sometimes id love to smack Rafa but I still love him.
For me and from what I read of your posts you want him out but are afraid to say it in plain English!Instead you keep plugging away with little jibes his way.Hoping more troops fall into your train of thought.Maybe Im wrong of course,but recently your posts have suggested this..in an underhand way of course!

**Disclaimer ......There isnt one!

Good post that Baz, and who knows whether you're right or not. There are times yes when I think it'd be better if he fecked off, but in the main I think we are better off with him at the moment.

Fairly obviously I don't buy into all the "he's the messiah" stuff, quite simply because I think he has made not just a few but many mistakes while he's been Liverpool manager. Everybody makes them as you rightly point out, but to keep making them over and over and over again gets just as boring for me watching it as it does for you reading me posting about it.

I do though quite like him as well. I think he's an excellent coach, and watching the way he's gone about the job has been educational (and I'm not being sarcy, I mean it). The main thing for me though Baz is I want to win the league, and I don't want the Mancs to go past our total. It starts and stops there, and if I thought we had a better chance with a different manager who was available, I'd get shot of Rafa instantly.

I came out quite openly some time ago and said I think that we'd have more chance of winning the title if Mourinho was manager, and therefore I would take him if he was available. I've said many times that unless Rafa changes his methodology he will will never ever win the English Premier League, it's even in the sig so I'm hardly hiding my true feelings.

He has though this season gone some way towards giving us a chance, and as such I'm supportive of what he's doing. Equally, although I don't think he's Jesus Christ reincarnated, I always point out that I think that in the main he's done a good job, and to challenge this season is a good effort.

It's worth considering though Baz that I've been called allsorts for three seasons, and when those very people who have been dishing it out come out with stuff like Parry signing Keane and not the manager, I'm bound to have a bit of a smile at it. I don't think I'd be human if I didn't think it was slightly funny would I?

Good post though, made me laugh and some very good points too.

Well Im glad you dont see it as a personal attack mate!Most on here would be nuking me for disagreeing!
Mick I get frustrated too with what he does at times...but what I was trying to point out was with you..even when we win you are like..Cue the mass rotation and styling next week!Then if he rotates you are"told ya so"
Its pointless.What I will say is this.i hope Rafa just fecked about with the team a bit cause we had a lot of fixtures over Xmas.he needs to play a settled team if we are gonna be up there..that aint a secret!
If we dont play a settled team we wont win the League..I know that..you know that!But pointing it out 5 times a week doers'nt make ya smart mate!

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:09 am

Duno why BM has been gettin stick the last few weeks about his honest opinion he is by far the best poster on here and tells it as it is FACT.
Sometimes the truth hurts I suppose and people dont want to listen.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:14 am

Ciggy wrote:Duno why BM has been gettin stick the last few weeks about his honest opinion he is by far the best poster on here and tells it as it is FACT.
Sometimes the truth hurts I suppose and people dont want to listen.

Yeah Bm has had a bit of un deserved stick...but that dont mean ya have to agree with all he says!
The lad is a gent..I know that,but i disagree with some of what he says!

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:24 am

Number 9 wrote:Yeah Bm has had a bit of un deserved stick...but that dont mean ya have to agree with all he says!
The lad is a gent..I know that,but i disagree with some of what he says!

I didnt know you had abused him bazza im just sayin like

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:28 am

Ciggy wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Yeah Bm has had a bit of un deserved stick...but that dont mean ya have to agree with all he says!
The lad is a gent..I know that,but i disagree with some of what he says!

I didnt know you had abused him bazza im just sayin like

I never abused anyone..my abusive days are gone!Just ask my therapist! :laugh:

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:31 am

Number 9 wrote:I never abused anyone..my abusive days are gone!Just ask my therapist!

Me neither, do you reckon the mods will remove our naughty cards now we are not on the Fanta anymore

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:35 am

Ciggy wrote:
Number 9 wrote:I never abused anyone..my abusive days are gone!Just ask my therapist!

Me neither, do you reckon the mods will remove our naughty cards now we are not on the Fanta anymore

No

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