LUCAS LEIVA - Official Thread

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Postby Fo Dne » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:40 pm

milou wrote:I think he wouldn't be able to win "brazilian footballer of the year" at 19 for being a bad player. I mean it is BRAZIL for goodness sake! :laugh:

Coming to a new country, new league, new cultures, new language & new management philosophies... it is difficult to adjust.. more difficult than most people think. Some players just never settle down, esp now you are just "another player" in a big-name team. Most tellingly, you are now being watched & criticized by fans around the world.

So when you are under immense pressure and afraid to make mistakes, you naturally will not take risk in your game (hence all his easy square passes). But I supposed he was willing to make that killer pass to gerrard the other day because the game was already won. Besides skills, confidence & morale can also make or break a player.

I will speculate that in his old club in Brazil, he was among the best players and the team was "built around him". I will controversially say the same for Kuyt (top scorer in dutch football), Diouf (African footballer of the year), Cisse (top scorer in french football), Morientes (well-known striker that every liv fans approved), benanyoun (top-class "wizardry" player in west ham) , keane (there is a risk now), etc. We must not forget how good they were before they came to Liverpool. Even Henry is finding it hard in Barca now. And how about our beloved Rush who used to find life difficult in Juventus? Similarly for Veron (in manu), Shevchenko (in chelsea), Forlan (in manu) ... the list go on and on.

On the flip-side, we have players like Torres (in Liverpool) and Henry (in Arsenal) who came in and "suddenly" became world class. Besides their obvious talent, everything else just clicked for them.. and the star is born.

Some players are possibly more "adaptable".. who go around and still perform more or less well.. arguably players like owen & beckham.. and i honestly think they are the exception rather than the rule. But most good players don't move enough these days to really test my hypothesis.. no less bcos clubs hang on to their best players.

Basically everytime you decide to move (or buy a player, if you are the manager), you take the risk of being a flop (liv has its fair share!), be it knowingly or unknowingly.

In the end, if it works out for you in a new environment.. then Fine. If not, it is just too bad... and the wise ones must be decisive to move-on or U-turn (like rush).

The Newcastle game was the first time in a red shirt he's produced a performance which had a good few moments of quality in it.

People are making out the in Arsenal game he was good, he was :censored:. He was passing the ball out of play under no pressure and miscontrolling it all the time. Against PSV he done ok against a poor side and delivered a decent free kick, nothing more.

If he performed once in a red shirt like he had at Newcastle then he wouldn't get half the stick he has. His next appearance needs to be of similar quality.
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Postby murphy0151 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:41 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
milou wrote:I think he wouldn't be able to win "brazilian footballer of the year" at 19 for being a bad player. I mean it is BRAZIL for goodness sake! :laugh:

Coming to a new country, new league, new cultures, new language & new management philosophies... it is difficult to adjust.. more difficult than most people think. Some players just never settle down, esp now you are just "another player" in a big-name team. Most tellingly, you are now being watched & criticized by fans around the world.

So when you are under immense pressure and afraid to make mistakes, you naturally will not take risk in your game (hence all his easy square passes). But I supposed he was willing to make that killer pass to gerrard the other day because the game was already won. Besides skills, confidence & morale can also make or break a player.

I will speculate that in his old club in Brazil, he was among the best players and the team was "built around him". I will controversially say the same for Kuyt (top scorer in dutch football), Diouf (African footballer of the year), Cisse (top scorer in french football), Morientes (well-known striker that every liv fans approved), benanyoun (top-class "wizardry" player in west ham) , keane (there is a risk now), etc. We must not forget how good they were before they came to Liverpool. Even Henry is finding it hard in Barca now. And how about our beloved Rush who used to find life difficult in Juventus? Similarly for Veron (in manu), Shevchenko (in chelsea), Forlan (in manu) ... the list go on and on.

On the flip-side, we have players like Torres (in Liverpool) and Henry (in Arsenal) who came in and "suddenly" became world class. Besides their obvious talent, everything else just clicked for them.. and the star is born.

Some players are possibly more "adaptable".. who go around and still perform more or less well.. arguably players like owen & beckham.. and i honestly think they are the exception rather than the rule. But most good players don't move enough these days to really test my hypothesis.. no less bcos clubs hang on to their best players.

Basically everytime you decide to move (or buy a player, if you are the manager), you take the risk of being a flop (liv has its fair share!), be it knowingly or unknowingly.

In the end, if it works out for you in a new environment.. then Fine. If not, it is just too bad... and the wise ones must be decisive to move-on or U-turn (like rush).

The Newcastle game was the first time in a red shirt he's produced a performance which had a good few moments of quality in it.

People are making out the in Arsenal game he was good, he was :censored:. He was passing the ball out of play under no pressure and miscontrolling it all the time. Against PSV he done ok against a poor side and delivered a decent free kick, nothing more.

If he performed once in a red shirt like he had at Newcastle then he wouldn't get half the stick he has. His next appearance needs to be of similar quality.

Lucas will allways perform better away from Anfield cause we have got shocking fans.  Fans who boo miss hit passes and sii at any gievn mistake by any of the players unless its Steven Gerrard or Carra or Torres its shocking.  Boooing subs aswell, Clever fans.
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Postby redhayesy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:31 pm

spot on murphy. the fact that booing goes on in the kop is fecking unbelievable, let alone the rest of the ground! as i have said before if we really want rtk to work, REAL kopites should print pictures of anyone caught booing & name & shame them.  but then i know it would never work cause the majority of boo boys are day trippers anyway, & probably don't boo cara,stevie & torres cause thier the only players they know. like you say mate clever fans- FWIW i haven't been very impressed with Lucas of late but will never boo him, i just think he has not handled the pressure of first team football very well, but have to say his performance against newcastle was a pleasure to watch, iv'e watched his through ball for stevie's 2nd goal a dozen times it was a dream pass real quality, however i do fear it is a one off,i sincerly hope i'm wrong but i also think he lacks self confidence,& is ligjht in the tackle to many times during a game.

if he shows the desire & uses his brain when passing the ball to create chances like he did on sunday then i will be made up for him,it will keep the others on their toes,but if Lucas wants a future at the club & be a first choice player in the future then sunday's game cannot be a one off,he must go on from that performance & show consistancy.
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Postby Fo Dne » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:33 pm

murphy0151 wrote:Lucas will allways perform better away from Anfield cause we have got shocking fans.  Fans who boo miss hit passes and sii at any gievn mistake by any of the players unless its Steven Gerrard or Carra or Torres its shocking.  Boooing subs aswell, Clever fans.

Maybe he should wear ear plugs then. :laugh:

Blaming the fans for players playing a poor game...

Love it! :laugh:
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Postby NANNY RED » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:40 pm

Spot on Murph been saying the same thing meself for ages.

The lad lookes terrified when he got the ball sometimes not just him an all
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Postby milou » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:07 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
milou wrote:I think he wouldn't be able to win "brazilian footballer of the year" at 19 for being a bad player. I mean it is BRAZIL for goodness sake! :laugh:

Coming to a new country, new league, new cultures, new language & new management philosophies... it is difficult to adjust.. more difficult than most people think. Some players just never settle down, esp now you are just "another player" in a big-name team. Most tellingly, you are now being watched & criticized by fans around the world.

So when you are under immense pressure and afraid to make mistakes, you naturally will not take risk in your game (hence all his easy square passes). But I supposed he was willing to make that killer pass to gerrard the other day because the game was already won. Besides skills, confidence & morale can also make or break a player.

I will speculate that in his old club in Brazil, he was among the best players and the team was "built around him". I will controversially say the same for Kuyt (top scorer in dutch football), Diouf (African footballer of the year), Cisse (top scorer in french football), Morientes (well-known striker that every liv fans approved), benanyoun (top-class "wizardry" player in west ham) , keane (there is a risk now), etc. We must not forget how good they were before they came to Liverpool. Even Henry is finding it hard in Barca now. And how about our beloved Rush who used to find life difficult in Juventus? Similarly for Veron (in manu), Shevchenko (in chelsea), Forlan (in manu) ... the list go on and on.

On the flip-side, we have players like Torres (in Liverpool) and Henry (in Arsenal) who came in and "suddenly" became world class. Besides their obvious talent, everything else just clicked for them.. and the star is born.

Some players are possibly more "adaptable".. who go around and still perform more or less well.. arguably players like owen & beckham.. and i honestly think they are the exception rather than the rule. But most good players don't move enough these days to really test my hypothesis.. no less bcos clubs hang on to their best players.

Basically everytime you decide to move (or buy a player, if you are the manager), you take the risk of being a flop (liv has its fair share!), be it knowingly or unknowingly.

In the end, if it works out for you in a new environment.. then Fine. If not, it is just too bad... and the wise ones must be decisive to move-on or U-turn (like rush).

The Newcastle game was the first time in a red shirt he's produced a performance which had a good few moments of quality in it.

People are making out the in Arsenal game he was good, he was :censored:. He was passing the ball out of play under no pressure and miscontrolling it all the time. Against PSV he done ok against a poor side and delivered a decent free kick, nothing more.

If he performed once in a red shirt like he had at Newcastle then he wouldn't get half the stick he has. His next appearance needs to be of similar quality.

From youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqKzNlxclw

From Wiki: Lucas also became the youngest player to ever to receive Placar magazine's Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball), given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro — an honour previously won by the likes of Zico, Falcao, Careca, Alex, Romario, Kaká and Tevez.

Wow.. Just look at the other names that won the same prize before!

And how could that be the same Leiva we now have in our squad?!

He must seriously start believing in himself when given the chance... Or he better move on to salvage his career elsewhere.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:18 pm

Lucas will come good. he just needs to be injected with confidence. with a performance like that against NUFC and the pass he made to Gerrard its no wonder Rafa i think once said he is in our captain's mould. hopefully he keeps it up. would be a valuable asset.
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Postby metalhead » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:13 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:he just needs to be injected with confidence

???

is there a syringe for that? :D
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Postby roberto green » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:13 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Lucas will come good. he just needs to be injected with confidence. with a performance like that against NUFC and the pass he made to Gerrard its no wonder Rafa i think once said he is in our captain's mould. hopefully he keeps it up. would be a valuable asset.

saying that he might have to soon if Gerard get's suspended or imprisoned
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Postby Madmax » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:33 pm

metalhead wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:he just needs to be injected with confidence

???

is there a syringe for that? :D

:D  special home made remedy..
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Postby Madmax » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:34 pm

roberto green wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:Lucas will come good. he just needs to be injected with confidence. with a performance like that against NUFC and the pass he made to Gerrard its no wonder Rafa i think once said he is in our captain's mould. hopefully he keeps it up. would be a valuable asset.

saying that he might have to soon if Gerard get's suspended or imprisoned

hope it dont come to that and it will not.
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Postby tubby » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:11 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Spot on Murph been saying the same thing meself for ages.

The lad lookes terrified when he got the ball sometimes not just him an all

He is probably feeling intimidated of playing at home after hearing people boo him when he came on against Fulham. Can hardly blame him.
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Postby falabogu » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:07 am

Lucas won`t come good,I am afraid. He is week and slow,the worst combination. He hasn`t technique that Deco has,but we are hardworkers team,so every his pass with vision people compare to best players. He is average,something like Ariel Ibagaza,but slower
Last edited by falabogu on Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bigmick » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:13 am

Who is this bloke you are comapring him to mate, never heard of him.
Last edited by bigmick on Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby falabogu » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:20 am

bigmick wrote:Who is this bloke you are comapring him to mate, never heard of him.

never heard of ariel Ibagaza? he played some good football in Mallorca few years ago. But he was never world class player because of his limitations. Player with ability and skills. can Lucas as an central midfilder dribble few players in a row? I don`t think so
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