Liverpool FC Forum

by **milou** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:22 am

bigmick wrote:Well we both know Sabes that modern day footballers will be absolutely 100% fit rarely in a season. Really though, whether Keane is carrying a twinge or dead leg isn't really the point. My point all along has been that if Keane was left out of the team for reasons other than injury (which includes all the niggles providing they aren't of the chipped toe nail variety), then IMHO it was selectorial silliness. That we still managed to win the game comfortably is irrelevent to the point about Keane in my view, not playing him passed up an opportunity (an excellent one as it turned out) for him to build on his flourishing confidence.

Anyway we've done the Keane thing and this is the rotation thread. If he was rested/rotated for reasons other than injury, I disagree with the decision. Simple as that really.

I will go ahead to speculate that Keane was alright before, during and after the game. Wasn't he warming up at one stage of the match.. You don't ask your injured or unfit players to warm up, right?! So it is obvious (to me at least) that it was a tactical decision not to play him.

For the record, I disagree with Keane's omission (esp he is just finding form) but Rafa obviously has other idea! It worked this time and so be it.

Bigmick, I am just curious... What do you want all these discussions to lead to?

Do you want someone to agree with you that Keane omission was "silly"? Well, that's me.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa may go on another "styling spree" soon? That's me again... although I think the "less than congested" fixtures may moderate his decision.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa's rotation method may cost us the title? Hmmm.. this one? Possibly me.. but I can't be sure and can't change how he thinks/acts anyway.. so I choose to sit tight and enjoy the ride! :buttrock

But honestly, were you at all surprised that Rafa "did it again"? I was actually surprised that it happened so late in Dec! :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:30 am

milou wrote:I will go ahead to speculate that Keane was alright before, during and after the game. Wasn't he warming up at one stage of the match.. You don't ask your injured or unfit players to warm up, right?! So it is obvious (to me at least) that it was a tactical decision not to play him.

For the record, I disagree with Keane's omission (esp he is just finding form) but Rafa obviously has other idea! It worked this time and so be it.

Bigmick, I am just curious... What do you want all these discussions to lead to?

Do you want someone to agree with you that Keane omission was "silly"? Well, that's me.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa may go on another "styling spree" soon? That's me again... although I think the "less than congested" fixtures may moderate his decision.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa's rotation method may cost us the title? Hmmm.. this one? Possibly me.. but I can't be sure and can't change how he thinks/acts anyway.. so I choose to sit tight and enjoy the ride!

But honestly, were you at all surprised that Rafa "did it again"? I was actually surprised that it happened so late in Dec!

The last question is the killer one, and if I'm honest I was surprised yes. Even though it's by no means the first time we've gone down this route (it's not even the first time this season to be fair) I thought the case for Keane playing was so overwhelming that even Rafa wouldn't pass it up.

The fact that he did indicates to me that he is warming up for a bit of uber-styling, and the fact that we won the game as comfortably as we did has in the past tended to encourage his more eccentric side.

Unfortunately i think it will this time as well.

As for what I expect the debate to achieve mate, or where I hope it leads? Feck all and nowhere in particular in that order if I'm honest

Don't be asking questiuons like that though, you'll have us all realising how totally pointless football forum debates are :cool:

by **milou** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:45 am

bigmick wrote:
milou wrote:I will go ahead to speculate that Keane was alright before, during and after the game. Wasn't he warming up at one stage of the match.. You don't ask your injured or unfit players to warm up, right?! So it is obvious (to me at least) that it was a tactical decision not to play him.

For the record, I disagree with Keane's omission (esp he is just finding form) but Rafa obviously has other idea! It worked this time and so be it.

Bigmick, I am just curious... What do you want all these discussions to lead to?

Do you want someone to agree with you that Keane omission was "silly"? Well, that's me.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa may go on another "styling spree" soon? That's me again... although I think the "less than congested" fixtures may moderate his decision.

Do you want someone to agree with you that Rafa's rotation method may cost us the title? Hmmm.. this one? Possibly me.. but I can't be sure and can't change how he thinks/acts anyway.. so I choose to sit tight and enjoy the ride!

But honestly, were you at all surprised that Rafa "did it again"? I was actually surprised that it happened so late in Dec!

The last question is the killer one, and if I'm honest I was surprised yes. Even though it's by no means the first time we've gone down this route (it's not even the first time this season to be fair) I thought the case for Keane playing was so overwhelming that even Rafa wouldn't pass it up.

The fact that he did indicates to me that he is warming up for a bit of uber-styling, and the fact that we won the game as comfortably as we did has in the past tended to encourage his more eccentric side.

Unfortunately i think it will this time as well.

As for what I expect the debate to achieve mate, or where I hope it leads? Feck all and nowhere in particular in that order if I'm honest Don't be asking questiuons like that though, you'll have us all realising how totally pointless football forum debates are

But I think debates/forums aren't entirely pointless. There are so many people who earn their living (often VERY good living) talking and analyzing football or other sports, politics, economy (although often wrong!), etc etc.

Without direct reference to you Mick, I just think you will be utterly disappointed if you pin too much hope that the outcome would change simply because we personally think it should.

Having said that.. It is all good fun exchanging thoughts.. sensibly & logically, without any name-calling and abuse.

by **bigmick** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:51 am

milou wrote:Having said that.. It is all good fun exchanging thoughts.. sensibly & logically, without any name-calling and abuse.

Very true mate. Welcome to the forum.

by **milou** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:56 am

bigmick wrote:
milou wrote:Having said that.. It is all good fun exchanging thoughts.. sensibly & logically, without any name-calling and abuse.

Very true mate. Welcome to the forum.

I have been reading this forum for YEARS.. but seldom posted.

That's why I knew most of what you guys have discussed before, the terms you guys like to use, your personal stand, etc etc.. :laugh:

Thanks for welcoming me anyway.

by **GYBS** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:11 pm

welcome as well mate . The rotation thread is quite a good thread with a lot of very insightful stuff with lots of pros and cons to it all . I agree with micks ideas on mass rotation and think it harms our chances but not the main reason we havent succeeded i think that comes down to lack of ability within the squad over the years but the rotation at some points hasnt helped . This season the squad is a lot better because of additions of mainly reira and keane plus insua coming on . Think rafa will always change his team depending on opposition and player fitness etc but i dont think it will be to extremes and also the players coming in ie sami , babel , lucas , el zhar , yossi plus youngsters like darby a lot better than in previous seasons and are able to step up like we saw against newcastle . Against the really big teams rafa will pick the best 11 every day of the week but will also play people like lucas and babel a lot and i think we will still be strong enough to get wins , we i hope anyway . I hope we do see our normal second half high form like we have done with torres to come back . This season i beleive we have the squad to go all the way , its not perfect but no squad is but its up there with the mancs and chelsea and we are showing that . Rafa seems to be showing a lot of priority in the league with the weaker teams he has put out in the cl which is good to see . The next couple of months will be crucial and i think with players like lucas playing so well against newcastle the whole squad hopefully can believe we can do it now .

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:14 pm

rotational talk

gybs: i like liverpool fc

stu: you can tell your clueless in that statement

gybs: no im not

stu: yes you are

gybs: not

stu: yes

gybs: not

stu: clueless idiot

gybs: i have my opinion

stu: and its clueless

gybs: stop it

stu: i'll tell anyone that

gybs: now your clueless

stu: not im not

gybs: yes you are

stu: not

gybs: yes

------------------

see where this is going folks

happy new year

by **Ian Rush's Right foot** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:16 pm

Regarding Keane & the Newcastle Game.

We played 5 in midfield, 2 holding, Gerrard in a free role, with a lone striker, surely by now you have realised Keane cannot fullfil this role as a lone striker.

Benitez wasn't to know newcastle were gonna be so poor as to the fact we could have played as we did against bolton with keane just behind kuyt in a more regular 4 4 2

So, Rafa would have explained this to keane, as if he had played up by himself and newcastle had played better he would have struggled!!!!!!!!!!

by **GYBS** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:16 pm

happy new year judge . Ps you forgot the lack of intelligence mate

by **Fo Dne** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:20 pm

milou wrote:
bigmick wrote:
milou wrote:Having said that.. It is all good fun exchanging thoughts.. sensibly & logically, without any name-calling and abuse.

Very true mate. Welcome to the forum.

I have been reading this forum for YEARS.. but seldom posted.

That's why I knew most of what you guys have discussed before, the terms you guys like to use, your personal stand, etc etc..

Thanks for welcoming me anyway.

You've had ya welcome now feck off...

by **milou** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:24 pm

Fo Dne wrote:You've had ya welcome now feck off...

OK sir!

by **Fo Dne** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:36 pm

I think that was my first post in this thread...

I don't like rotation talk. Its needed in modern day football but nowhere near to the extent our manager tends to use it. I think to many people place to much emphasis on this particular part of the game.

by **GYBS** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:53 pm

a lot of the emphasis for rotation came from the press and media especially motd who went on about it every sat night . Same with the zonal marking . I remember all the who ha when rafa was due to play a hundred games in a row changing the team and motd looked like they has a celebration waiting for him until he play the same team as the week before .

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:51 pm

Just found the latest posts in here and I must say, what a breath of fresh air to read some proper, civil footy discussion. :nod

I've been burned too many times now by Mick's premonitions to dismiss out of hand the idea that Rafa will soon start styling again. Mick has a knack for posting things that look like a complete bolt from the blue one week and bang fecking on the next!

With that said, I agree with Milou (welcome aboard, mate :cool:

) that the upcoming, less congested fixture list favours a return to less styling rather than a carrying on of more styling. I think that will be especially the case if Torres returns and stays fit. With one game a week through January and a key clash with Chelsea at the end of the month, I think Rafa will be looking for continuity in his team selections. I think that will carry into February, unless injuries crop up, and then it will get interesting as the Real Madrid matches loom. Time will tell, though, if Mick's gut feeling is bang on once more. :blush:

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:16 pm

Wasn't there a stage where the anti's were saying that we must give ourselves a chance in the first place ie if your going to start rotating or styling ,do it when were in the second half of the season and in the mix.

Well maybe rafa has been reading this thread all along and has decided to take there advice on board :laugh:

I'm only kiddin really , i think were all in broad agreement that rafa has not styled alot in the first half of the season . And i'm quiet happy to concede that that has contributed to our current league position . What i would like to know and in all seriousness is what do you think to the concept that he might actually start styling now as he see's players getting more tired as the season goes on and as the important games mount. Possibilty or no.

Personally i think there is still abit of scope to rest players en mass here and there without disrupting our league campaign . Preston being an obvious one and if we get past them ,we can do it again . The Fa cup is the comp to suffer ,but if it keeps our bestt players fit for the league and the chamions league ,well that's fine by me .

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