Liverpool FC Forum

by **DanAn** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:42 pm

He still has plenty of time, he's just a kid. But at the moment he's not doing so well. The question is are we patient enough to develop him into a decent player?

I'd say it seems like most fans have no patients whether it is Babel, Lucas, Insua, El Zhar or N'gog. If they are not Fabergas at 21 then it seems we think they are :censored:

by **tubby** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:55 pm

I think Lucas could have a future at the club. He made a good impact in the derby and looked good in the 2nd half the other day when he came on. He just seems to start shyte and then get better once Rafas had a go at the whole team.

by **Owzat** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:58 am

DanAn wrote:He still has plenty of time, he's just a kid. But at the moment he's not doing so well. The question is are we patient enough to develop him into a decent player?

I'd say it seems like most fans have no patients whether it is Babel, Lucas, Insua, El Zhar or N'gog. If they are not Fabergas at 21 then it seems we think they are

Maybe some should cut him some slack because he is young and yet we're making a direct comparison with Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano alongside him. Talk about setting the bar high and then criticising a seven year old for not jumping as high as the very best 7 year olds or any of the 8, 9 or 10 year olds.

I think maybe it's a reflection of the way fan mentality has become, someone is either great or :censored:

. Maybe he won't ever be good enough for Liverpool, maybe he will. But if someone thinks we can sell him for what we paid for him - or more - and buy someone much better with that money then I have to doubt it.

I think we did pay over the odds for him, but if he develops in the next couple of years then we could make a profit. Personally I have been critical of Houllier and now Rafa for not focusing enough on the present. Houllier bought too many players in his "next Zidane", "next Vieira" long-term plan. Rafa has bought players like N'Gog, Babel, Lucas etc who don't seem to be up to coming straight in the side when we need to improve the side NOW and not for three or four years down the line - and even then only maybe. Our squad wasn't good enough to compete with the mancs, Chelsea or Arsenal (past if not present) Yet we're still buying 'talented kids' like the mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea do as if our squad is good enough.

by **akumaface** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:15 pm

Owzat wrote:
DanAn wrote:He still has plenty of time, he's just a kid. But at the moment he's not doing so well. The question is are we patient enough to develop him into a decent player?

I'd say it seems like most fans have no patients whether it is Babel, Lucas, Insua, El Zhar or N'gog. If they are not Fabergas at 21 then it seems we think they are

Maybe some should cut him some slack because he is young and yet we're making a direct comparison with Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano alongside him. Talk about setting the bar high and then criticising a seven year old for not jumping as high as the very best 7 year olds or any of the 8, 9 or 10 year olds.

I think maybe it's a reflection of the way fan mentality has become, someone is either great or . Maybe he won't ever be good enough for Liverpool, maybe he will. But if someone thinks we can sell him for what we paid for him - or more - and buy someone much better with that money then I have to doubt it.

I think we did pay over the odds for him, but if he develops in the next couple of years then we could make a profit. Personally I have been critical of Houllier and now Rafa for not focusing enough on the present. Houllier bought too many players in his "next Zidane", "next Vieira" long-term plan. Rafa has bought players like N'Gog, Babel, Lucas etc who don't seem to be up to coming straight in the side when we need to improve the side NOW and not for three or four years down the line - and even then only maybe. Our squad wasn't good enough to compete with the mancs, Chelsea or Arsenal (past if not present) Yet we're still buying 'talented kids' like the mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea do as if our squad is good enough.

Read your own post again. Seems contradict itself haha. Saying fans are not fair to compare to SG, ALonso and Mascher and should give lucas some time. At the end, you said you don't understand why Rafa buy players such as Babel, Lucas.....

Anyway, I'm just frustrated as you but to me as I don't like Lucas as he is only good at foulling people and 5 yds pass (not strong enough to play that position and no speed etc...). I'm sure we can do better than that. As for Babel, El Zhar and Ngog, i think it is still too early to judge. Out of all these so called young players, Lucas by far got the most chance to play in his natural position. I think we should sell or loan him out if the right offers come.

by **Owzat** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:44 pm

akumaface wrote:
Owzat wrote:
DanAn wrote:He still has plenty of time, he's just a kid. But at the moment he's not doing so well. The question is are we patient enough to develop him into a decent player?

I'd say it seems like most fans have no patients whether it is Babel, Lucas, Insua, El Zhar or N'gog. If they are not Fabergas at 21 then it seems we think they are

Maybe some should cut him some slack because he is young and yet we're making a direct comparison with Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano alongside him. Talk about setting the bar high and then criticising a seven year old for not jumping as high as the very best 7 year olds or any of the 8, 9 or 10 year olds.

I think maybe it's a reflection of the way fan mentality has become, someone is either great or . Maybe he won't ever be good enough for Liverpool, maybe he will. But if someone thinks we can sell him for what we paid for him - or more - and buy someone much better with that money then I have to doubt it.

I think we did pay over the odds for him, but if he develops in the next couple of years then we could make a profit. Personally I have been critical of Houllier and now Rafa for not focusing enough on the present. Houllier bought too many players in his "next Zidane", "next Vieira" long-term plan. Rafa has bought players like N'Gog, Babel, Lucas etc who don't seem to be up to coming straight in the side when we need to improve the side NOW and not for three or four years down the line - and even then only maybe. Our squad wasn't good enough to compete with the mancs, Chelsea or Arsenal (past if not present) Yet we're still buying 'talented kids' like the mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea do as if our squad is good enough.

Read your own post again. Seems contradict itself haha. Saying fans are not fair to compare to SG, ALonso and Mascher and should give lucas some time. At the end, you said you don't understand why Rafa buy players such as Babel, Lucas.....

We've signed them but yet we judge them by too high a standard. It isn't really a contradiction, I don't agree with us signing the player(s) in the first place which is completely different to how (harshly) we rate them. I'm not saying they're not good enough for the future, just that we need to sign players we can use now. I don't at any point say the young signings are too rubbish

akumaface wrote:Anyway, I'm just frustrated as you but to me as I don't like Lucas as he is only good at foulling people and 5 yds pass (not strong enough to play that position and no speed etc...). I'm sure we can do better than that. As for Babel, El Zhar and Ngog, i think it is still too early to judge. Out of all these so called young players, Lucas by far got the most chance to play in his natural position. I think we should sell or loan him out if the right offers come.

Lucas may come good given time, but if we're chasing the title then I don't see him playing a major role - hence why I said perhaps we shouldn't have signed him (now) El Zhar is good enough for the bench, not the starting XI. Babel has yet to prove himself good enough for a regular bench slot, I hear he failed in attempts to engineer a loan move back to Ajax (BBC website) N'Gog was never much kop at PSG, can't see what Rafa sees in him - even judging him against ordinary strikers of the same age.

by **Petar** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:01 pm

He is 21 and sooo weak,slow... How can he improve? Somebody will say `but he can play one-two passes`,well I think everybody on this forum could do that. You can immidiately see in player is he good,or not. Look at wilshire and at Lucas. Wilshire is in this age very good player and he will come good,cause he HAVEN`T WEAK link,so he can be world class. Lucas is slow and weak,can you imagine worst combination. And he is not Deco,and he will never be!

by **Owzat** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:09 pm

Petar wrote:He is 21 and sooo weak,slow... How can he improve? Somebody will say `but he can play one-two passes`,well I think everybody on this forum could do that. You can immidiately see in player is he good,or not. Look at wilshire and at Lucas. Wilshire is in this age very good player and he will come good,cause he HAVEN`T WEAK link,so he can be world class. Lucas is slow and weak,can you imagine worst combination. And he is not Deco,and he will never be!

You'd be surprised how rare 1-2 passes are in games, often the passing is too studious and slow.

I do agree that the physical aspect of the role Lucas may aspire to play may well find him wanting. Pace is not really an issue, you don't have to be quick to be a good footballer.

by **Petar** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:20 pm

Owzat wrote:
Petar wrote:He is 21 and sooo weak,slow... How can he improve? Somebody will say `but he can play one-two passes`,well I think everybody on this forum could do that. You can immidiately see in player is he good,or not. Look at wilshire and at Lucas. Wilshire is in this age very good player and he will come good,cause he HAVEN`T WEAK link,so he can be world class. Lucas is slow and weak,can you imagine worst combination. And he is not Deco,and he will never be!

You'd be surprised how rare 1-2 passes are in games, often the passing is too studious and slow.

I do agree that the physical aspect of the role Lucas may aspire to play may well find him wanting. Pace is not really an issue, you don't have to be quick to be a good footballer.

Yes,but he is not Riquelme,eh? You can add there-no technique. One/two passes are rarely in Liverpool game,yes

by **akumaface** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:06 pm

Actually, I think Lucas's physique is simply not made for the position he plays. At least not in EPL(given time, this won't change). I would honestly look to off load him in the summer. I really have no hard feelings here. It is simply judgement by observation.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:13 pm

Petar wrote:
Owzat wrote:
Petar wrote:He is 21 and sooo weak,slow... How can he improve? Somebody will say `but he can play one-two passes`,well I think everybody on this forum could do that. You can immidiately see in player is he good,or not. Look at wilshire and at Lucas. Wilshire is in this age very good player and he will come good,cause he HAVEN`T WEAK link,so he can be world class. Lucas is slow and weak,can you imagine worst combination. And he is not Deco,and he will never be!

You'd be surprised how rare 1-2 passes are in games, often the passing is too studious and slow.

I do agree that the physical aspect of the role Lucas may aspire to play may well find him wanting. Pace is not really an issue, you don't have to be quick to be a good footballer.

Yes,but he is not Riquelme,eh? You can add there-no technique. One/two passes are rarely in Liverpool game,yes

we used to win leagues by playing one-two passes.

Barnes and Beardsley have lost count how many they strung together.

by **Fo Dne** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:11 am

Lee J wrote:
Petar wrote:
Owzat wrote:
Petar wrote:He is 21 and sooo weak,slow... How can he improve? Somebody will say `but he can play one-two passes`,well I think everybody on this forum could do that. You can immidiately see in player is he good,or not. Look at wilshire and at Lucas. Wilshire is in this age very good player and he will come good,cause he HAVEN`T WEAK link,so he can be world class. Lucas is slow and weak,can you imagine worst combination. And he is not Deco,and he will never be!

You'd be surprised how rare 1-2 passes are in games, often the passing is too studious and slow.

I do agree that the physical aspect of the role Lucas may aspire to play may well find him wanting. Pace is not really an issue, you don't have to be quick to be a good footballer.

Yes,but he is not Riquelme,eh? You can add there-no technique. One/two passes are rarely in Liverpool game,yes

we used to win leagues by playing one-two passes.

Barnes and Beardsley have lost count how many they strung together.

Its the most effective move in football and hardest to stop when good players do it. I am a massive fan of the particular move when used within the right situation and its something I agree not enough players in todays game do.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:44 am

I thought he played well, especially baring in mind the stick he's been getting from his own support and the fact his midfield partner was having a bit of a shocker, ive never seen Masch give so many passes straight to the opposition. Credit where its due, well played lad.

by **skatesy** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:38 am

Honestly, I think Lucas had one of his best games for us. I was really impressed with his composure, his passing, his tackling. He gave a great pass to Keane in the first where Keane should have made a better effort.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:05 am

skatesy wrote:Honestly, I think Lucas had one of his best games for us. I was really impressed with his composure, his passing, his tackling. He gave a great pass to Keane in the first where Keane should have made a better effort.

Yeh mate when you take into account the stick he's been getting from his own support it shows he's got a good mentality and fighting spirit.

by **stmichael** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:11 pm

I thought he did very well last night. Ok he's still got it all to prove in the league but he looks much more suited to the slower pace of European games, that's for sure.

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