Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:06 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Benayoun: His offering is very specific. Mostly is involved in games we expect to win, rarely brought on as an impact player. Surely Pennant would of provided more considering the amount of time we spent crossing.

I'm always surprised at the lack of appreciation of Benayoun in this forum.
OK, he's not the most effective tool in our box BUT the fella has a good appreciation of the game, is one of our better players when it comes to running with the ball at his feet and although small in stature, unlike Pennant, he never bottles it. Not in my first eleven but I'm happy to have him in the squad.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:11 pm

johnymarcu wrote:look at the way he falls... and his face... great performance...

I didn't expected that from him, he is our captain, not an actor

Something tells me that you live in Madrid and "our captain" isn't actually "your captain"

by **GOAT_2.0** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:11 pm

johnymarcu wrote:
destro wrote:
johnymarcu wrote:gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...

Would you like to explain exactly what he did wrong, he went for the ball got to it first and then there was contact and he went down, does that just about sum it up ?

Should Gerrard be held responsible for a player making a stupid challenge, like he said, outside the box that is a free kick every day of the week so why should it be any different inside the box.

Three things to consider

1) Should it have been a penalty = it was a foul so yeah

2) Did Gerrard use his experience and play for it = yeah I would say he probabley did

3) Would I complain if he did the same thing and got the same result in EVERY other game this season and it either won the game for us or got us a point = I wouldnt give a flying f'uck !!

look at the way he falls... and his face... great performance...

I didn't expected that from him, he is our captain, not an actor

He even adjusted his fall to make sure he stayed inside the box

by **destro** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:42 pm

johnymarcu wrote:
destro wrote:
johnymarcu wrote:gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...

Would you like to explain exactly what he did wrong, he went for the ball got to it first and then there was contact and he went down, does that just about sum it up ?

Should Gerrard be held responsible for a player making a stupid challenge, like he said, outside the box that is a free kick every day of the week so why should it be any different inside the box.

Three things to consider

1) Should it have been a penalty = it was a foul so yeah

2) Did Gerrard use his experience and play for it = yeah I would say he probabley did

3) Would I complain if he did the same thing and got the same result in EVERY other game this season and it either won the game for us or got us a point = I wouldnt give a flying f'uck !!

look at the way he falls... and his face... great performance...

I didn't expected that from him, he is our captain, not an actor

Look at the faces of the fans in crowd and they way they cheered, THAT should have been your reaction, are you honestly trying to tell me your first reaction was "Oh Stevie I am so dissapointed in you", behave your self :no

by **Scottbot** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:00 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Time to apoligise

If i offended anyone on here last night im sorry i cant even bring meself to read the thread in case i was totaly bang out of order , id had a good bevi and i know its no excuse but i cant even remember what i posted

So sorry

Same here, had a few pops an got a bit hot under the collar. Didn't really mean to call everyone a c**t. I just don't think yesterday was as bad as a few are making out. They scored an absolutely fantastic goal but aside from that I can't remember them creating anything else apart from a Maniche shot. I know we didn't create too many clear cut chances but some of our play in the 2nd half was good I thought. Clearly we miss Torres (we've been doing very well without him) and Gerrard had a very rough game last night compared to his usual high standards. Riera (who has been pivotal recently) also struggled last night. Some are obsessing about the formation and 4-4-2 but Rafa must have played his favoured 4-2-3-1 for much of the time in Europe over the past 4 years and we all know how successful he has been in that time.

It just seems so many posters call it great with hindsight but that's too easy. If the managers plays 4-4-2 and the team draw or lose you get calls of 'why did we buy another striker to play 4-4-2 when we were at our best in 4-2-3-1 last season'. And then after this loss, sorry i mean draw we've got several bemoaning the decision to play just one striker, we have to play 4-4-2 they cry. It would be nice to see BOTH opinions/groups on here at the same time. It's a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

Personally, I wasn't so bothered about last night. If we had lost the game we'd have still been 4 points ahead of Marseille and PSV and in the drivers seat, it wouldn't have been the end of the world. I'm far more bothered about our League game with West Brom this weekend, it's not that the Champions League doesn't matter but the league is the big one for most of us this season I think. I'm still (despite the loss against Spurs) pretty ecstatic with our start to the season and I get angry when I read the likes of Heindall (and others) spewing criticism in the face of a record start to the season and claiming some sort of moral highground about them obviously having higher standards than the rest of us and remembering the great Liverpool sides like it was yesterday.

by **Effes** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:22 pm

Scottbot wrote:Personally, I wasn't so bothered about last night. If we had lost the game we'd have still been 4 points ahead of Marseille and PSV and in the drivers seat, it wouldn't have been the end of the world. I'm far more bothered about our League game with West Brom this weekend, it's not that the Champions League doesn't matter but the league is the big one for most of us this season I think. I'm still (despite the loss against Spurs) pretty ecstatic with our start to the season

What him said

by **KennyisGod....still** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:24 pm

I aint been here often of late, it's actually quite depressin to read some of the comments put here by people that think we have a God given right to

1/ win and

2/ only ever play outstanding attractive football.

We perhaps need to look at where we are, accept what we have and appreciate that we're not a million miles off the 'moneyd clubs' and gettin nearer to the Premiership than we've been before.

Our CL win in 2005 has obviously earned us some fair weather fans that wanna hark back to the halcion days of the 70's and 80's unfortunately.

It can't be ignored that so far this season we've had our fair share of luck in stayin unbeaten until las satdy, but thats probly gonna even itself out over the course of 08/09, and we can (like every other team's fans) only hope that as the year goes on players gel more, confidence rises and what have been mediocre and somewhat lucky wins at times become serious beatings by 3 or 4 goals. The next few games will give chance for confidence to rise I believe, and maybe for players such as Keane to fill his boots and kickstart his LFC goalscorin performances.

Las nites game wasnt a poor performance at all, jus a performance let down by not takin our chances, as has happened the las 3 games, but to less effect against Pompey. Lets face it, Atletico came las nite and maybe surprised us by not parkin the bus for 90 minutes, but we were still unlucky to not win the game by 2 or 3 at least. The away game against 'em was much the same, plenty chances - not taken, but I defy any team to be at it's most lethal attackin best when it's main goalscorer has to sit the game out.

Hopefully the shakin of Keane's head aint a sign of him bein pi$$t at the tactics, but more at his lack of goals - his desire dont seem diminished, his work rate's still high, but he needs maybe a hat-trick or a brace of goals at least in a game, and comin up he may have jus that chance.

The Atletico team we played las nite won't win the CL, but they're not gonna be the worst team we play this season, and some1 somewhere is 90 minutes away from bein blown off the park, of that I'm sure. If Keane has to do it as a lone striker, or if he does it hand in hand with Torres, then maybe WBA will be the game he comes of age. Tho I feel he needs to be given more full games if possible, allowin him possible chances when defenders are tirin.

Anyway......a draw wernt the disaster it may have been las season, an surely no-one can imagine us not goin thru to the knock-out stages now? Not even the most morbid, fear laden souls that seem to think the end of the world is nigh if we dont manage to convert 85% of our chances.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:26 pm

bigmick wrote:Gotta say it was a lovely goal, no complaints. Perhaps Sabre could answer when he comes on, but who is the right back for them Lopez? Seen him make four or five absolutely top class contributions so far. is he really good, or just having a good game?

Sabes probs missed this when it got a few pages under all the match comments but I did like the right back and would be interested if anyone knows much about him. Perhaps he just had a good game on the night?

Anyway as far as the game and the performance is concerned, we did alright without uprooting any trees. I do though fully understand peoples unease about our lack of attacking prowess when Torres doesn't play. At first, due to our momentum and the fact we had games against clubs against whom we could play a counter attacking style, we managed to cope OK. Now though, in the last three games any momentum we had has practically come to an end, and we look like a team in need of inspiration.

I am, after posting this going to pontificate in the "rotation" thread about possible reasons for our grinding to a bit of a halt, but I'll do that there not here.

Back onto the "creating chances" bit anyway. Yes it's true we had a couple of chances against Athletico, but there aren't many English teams which will allow Daniel Agger to have goalscoring chances as a result of a set piece which is lumped in. Those chances are hardly "created" in the sense that I mean, and aside from Gerrards "step over and go" with Keane, we did lack a little imagination I think.

Does it matter? Well when Torres is back it'll matter less, as he very often makes his own goals out of nothing, and he does score regularly. Ultimately though I should think if most of us were to have a guess, lack of goals is probably the main reason why we might feel we won't win the title.

Is there an answer? Well there probably is, there usually is in football. I should think though that when you consider that we have two central midfielders who don't score a goal, nor directly create one, thats a problem. You have one of your two strikers who doesn't and isn't, your left sided midfielder who doesn't and isn't, and a right midfielder who has been doing occasionally recently but who generally doesn't, and you get back to the age old cunnundrum. Only Gerrard and
Torres look like scoring and creating a goal.

I think you have to do one of the following things if you want to be consistently more threatening. You have to a) put Gerrard on the right hand side of midfield to replace Kuyt. Gerrard is obviously better than "Dirky boy" and this would fairly instantly make us look like a different team. Some would argue that Kuyt is also better than Keane so you could move him inside to play with Torres and leave out the Irishman. They'd be wrong though in my opinion.

b) Move Gerrard back into central midfield once Torres comes back and leave out either Masherano or Alonso. This did look good as a system against Everton in particular, where we looked like a really good side to be honest.

One or two have mentioned january transfer windows and the like, and my guess is there'll be little or no money kicking around. I've said it a few rtimes but I'd have a good look at Thierry Henri. He could play left side as well which is handy because if Riera gets injured we are well and truly fecked.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:07 pm

Is it safe for me to post

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm

Nan you weren't even out of order luv, not in the slightest. You didn't even talk b0ll0cks (don't worry though, I covered for you in that department

).

by **Sabre** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:12 pm

bigmick wrote:
bigmick wrote:Gotta say it was a lovely goal, no complaints. Perhaps Sabre could answer when he comes on, but who is the right back for them Lopez? Seen him make four or five absolutely top class contributions so far. is he really good, or just having a good game?

Sabes probs missed this when it got a few pages under all the match comments but I did like the right back and would be interested if anyone knows much about him. Perhaps he just had a good game on the night?

I already answered but no probs, it's normal to miss things in match threads.

Antonio Lopez is a player that I like more than Arbeloa, he's a good player too, but he has more guts, more aggression than our RB.

Antonio Lopez was playing out of position yesterday, you might have noticed he's blindly left footed. His natural position is LB, so he did a very good game in RB -- styling at his best. Seasoned player, had to leave his very club to earn respect and experience somewhere else, before coming back. He's reached to be international, he's what I'd call a solid player.

I'd say his game yesterday was better than the normal ones of his mate. He did a very good game, normally he's just solid, a bit more aggressive than Arbeloa, a bit more "bad person" which is always good in football (football is not for good lads), but no top class normally, and he doesn't play that well always. Good game indeed.

Interesting the rest of your post aswell, although I think we all would admit that it's difficult to play against an Atletico with a crowded midfield and well protected. Perea is a good CB, Raul Garcia is the poor man's Gerrard but still a tough worker and solid midfield, when that team defends well collectively it's difficult to create against them mate.

On Agger, and while it's true english opposition is better known, I think that when it comes to CB, it's always nice to have him, because if not by "surprise", Agger will be very important because he'll add oxygen when the Alonsos and Mascheranos are battling against a crowded midfield. A player like Agger with his kind of game, can be crucial to win these battles in the middle regardless of how well the opposition knows him.

by **Scottbot** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:15 pm

Sabre wrote:football is not for good lads

Loved that bit

by **heimdall** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:44 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Is it safe for me to post

Nanny I have no problems with you, actually I don't really have any problems with any of the regulars on this forum, our opinions differ from time to time but at the end of the day we are all fans of LFC.
On another point, not at you Nanny, is that I honestly don't believe that anybody who spends a significant amount of time on this forum can ever be called a fair weather fan, and I really dislike those type of insinuations, they are fecking immature and create a bad atmosphere and bad feelings.

by **Sabre** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:47 pm

heimdall wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Is it safe for me to post

Nanny I have no problems with you, actually I don't really have any problems with any of the regulars on this forum, our opinions differ from time to time but at the end of the day we are all fans of LFC.

Wise words Heimdall.

Just remember, when you refer to those of us who wear red rosed glasses or something, that we also like good football mate. I love good football. Trust me. I love our team playing good football. I'm too dissapointed when we lose. I'm not happy and clapping after a defeat. We're just not being so negative

I mean, when I see things like "Kuyt is shíte", I wonder, "have these lads seen a third division game ever?". Kuyt is a good player. Then, ok, he might not be good enough for a top top club like Liverpool. Ok. But let's say that and not say he's shíte or garbage. He's playing with the red shírt, and he deserves a respect only for that.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:55 pm

Scottbot wrote:Personally, I wasn't so bothered about last night. If we had lost the game we'd have still been 4 points ahead of Marseille and PSV and in the drivers seat, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

I agree mate, this season more than any other seems more about who finishes first and second in each group rather than about qualifying. Only Chelsea seem to be in a close group where three teams are close on points.

R.Madrid lost at home tonight but will no doubt still qualify. Our group has seemed all about first and second since the first games, with qualification almost taken as read.

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