Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:45 pm

I know we might not even bid for him, but it applies to Liverpool in general going after another top class forward. Would it be like buying an HD DVD player without having an HD TV or an HD satellite package?

If we buy another striker in the Villa mold, he would HAVE to start alongside Torres, meaning a 4-4-2 (unless we switchted to a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2) Do we really have the players to play a 4-4-2 at the moment? Especially if you are in the camp of Gerrard must be played in the middle he is the captain that is where he belongs that is his best position. Then it is a decision of can Kuyt and Babel play these kind of less advanced, less help from the middle, wide positions? I am not so sure, and Babel would be pretty mad because he sees himself moving more and more central and more and more forward and this would be a step back in both directions. Now all that is left is Pennant (who I actually rate higher than most) and Yossi. In my opinion an 4-4-2 even with VIlla and Torres wouldn't be as good as our main starting XI from the end of last year if Pennant and Yossi are the wingers. SO now we would find ourselves right back where we started a while ago needing Two wingers with maybe not even enough money to buy one at the type of quality level that we are looking for.

So now I am not sure what to buy. it seemed like the main weakness of the 4-2-3-1 last year was maybe the fullbacks and MAYBE the "other" defensive midfielder. Well we have addressed both fullbacks already (assuming we officially sign Dossena) and I am guessing Barry would be played alongside Mascherano if brought in (or played alongside Gerrard making a 4-1-4-1 out of the 4-2-3-1). After that I can't really see any more improvements we can make. Kuyt has made that position his own and I am afraid the whole thing could implode if he was taken out of the equation even though a lot of people think we can probably add a more clinical finisher or a better crosser or someone with more flair. Babel has so much upside I would be worried about bringing in a replacement for him as well. I think in a way we are stuck with this team unless we want to "blow it up" and have a huge firesale to raise funds for a 4-4-2 starting XI

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:06 pm

I don't really see a problem Joe to be honest.
Reina

Degen Carra Agger Dossena

Gerrard Masch Barry

Villa Torres Babel

With attacking fullbacks, and both Gerrard and Barry comfortable in the wide areas I can't see that width would be too much of a problem.

Reina

Degen Carra Agger Dossena

Masch Barry
Gerrard
Villa Torres Babel

I prefer 4-4-2 myself so I would prefer

Reina

Degen Carra Agger Dossena

Kuyt Gerrard Masch Barry

Torres Villa

I do see a problem however if we don't buy a striker as neither Kuyt or Babel would fill me with confidence if Torres was injured or needed a rest.

by **SupitsJonF** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Well, Villa said he does not want to leave

But theres always next season!

I think Babel upfront with Villa and Torres would be weird, and might disrupt some flow. But who knows, we hardly see him as a striker as it is, so hard to comment.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:33 pm

I don't doubt VIlla is good enough of a football to play in a 4-3-3, but if we were going to do that, wouldn't we be better off getting somelike like Robben or Robinho in the Ronaldo aftermath? or just sticking with Kuyt? I mean FFS he starts for Holland and is playing very well over there and he is playing ahead of Van peirse and Robben

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:57 pm

JoeTerp wrote:I don't doubt VIlla is good enough of a football to play in a 4-3-3, but if we were going to do that, wouldn't we be better off getting somelike like Robben or Robinho in the Ronaldo aftermath? or just sticking with Kuyt? I mean FFS he starts for Holland and is playing very well over there and he is playing ahead of Van perise and Robben

Van Persie is just coming back from a long standing injury, and Babel is injured,which is why I presume Kuyt got his chance (which he has in all fairness taken very well)

IF we played Villa in a 4-3-3 I wouldn't be expecting him to take up wide positions and crossing as Kuyt does, more running the channels and interchanging with Torres. The width would have to come from the fullbacks, with Gerrard and Barry.

Robinho I haven't seen enough of (since his form improved) but he looks very slight and may not handle the physical side too well. Robben would be great on the left, but memories of his cheating, diving antics may put off most?

If we were considering buying a left sided player I would prefer Van Der Vaart, a player who scores goals has good control, wouldn't be physically intimidated and creates plenty of chances.

by **Alonso14** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:04 pm

. Mascha Alonso

Gerrard Villa Babel/Kuyt

Torres

For me that is THE team.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Torres playing up beside Villa in our team wouldn't work. It's pointless unless we have two attacking full backs, a quality left winger, and at least a 10 goal a season class right winger. Villa is not the solution to bring us the Prem, girls and boys. The other areas I've stated are. Forget about Villa.

by **mr_weed_80@hotmail.com** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:18 pm

saint, i agree with what you say except for one point.
i really can't see degen being played first team, and if he is then i can see this being a weak point. i'm going to wait before i judge dossena (cant remember spelling) but degen just doesn't appeal to me.
anywho, i like villa and would love him at the club but i believe wingers and wing backs are more important for the team

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:23 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Torres playing up beside Villa in our team wouldn't work. It's pointless unless we have two attacking full backs, a quality left winger, and at least a 10 goal a season class right winger. Villa is not the solution to bring us the Prem, girls and boys. The other areas I've stated are. Forget about Villa.

I wouldn't argue with that Emerald....... if you can tell me who is going to play striker when/IF Torres is injured and out for a couple of months? Babel is untested and to be honest doesn't look anywhere near ready to fire us to the title, and Kuyt..... I don't think so

We need a striker, be it Villa or even Crouch staying. If we get a Villa type striker we would have to play him (you don't pay £20million+ to sit them on a bench)

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:25 pm

mr_weed_80@hotmail.com wrote:saint, i agree with what you say except for one point.
i really can't see degen being played first team, and if he is then i can see this being a weak point. i'm going to wait before i judge dossena (cant remember spelling) but degen just doesn't appeal to me.
anywho, i like villa and would love him at the club but i believe wingers and wing backs are more important for the team

I can't comment really mate as I have never even seen a youtube clip of Degen yet. I have no idea if he is good bad or just ugly.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:28 pm

s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Torres playing up beside Villa in our team wouldn't work. It's pointless unless we have two attacking full backs, a quality left winger, and at least a 10 goal a season class right winger. Villa is not the solution to bring us the Prem, girls and boys. The other areas I've stated are. Forget about Villa.

I wouldn't argue with that Emerald....... if you can tell me who is going to play striker when/IF Torres is injured and out for a couple of months? Babel is untested and to be honest doesn't look anywhere near ready to fire us to the title, and Kuyt..... I don't think so

We need a striker, be it Villa or even Crouch staying. If we get a Villa type striker we would have to play him (you don't pay £20million+ to sit them on a bench)

Yes, true. Of course we do need another quality striker, but I just can't really see it working out unless we give them real width support. The reason why Torres and Villa are doing well for Spain at the moment is because they play with good attacking full backs and decent wide support. Our lack of width would nullify an extra attacker camped high up the pitch, effectively reducing us to 10 men IMO. This is probably the reason why Kuyt has been playing the way he has been. In fact, I'm fairly certain of it.

by **SupitsJonF** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:40 pm

Well liverpool just put in a bid for Silva, I think Rafa has a dream of coaching the Spanish national team + Gerrard....

by **red37** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:46 pm

The reason why Torres and Villa are doing well for Spain at the moment is because they play with good attacking full backs and decent wide support.

I'd have said Spain are quite the opposite of that. Most of whats effective about their industry is developed centrally.

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:51 pm

The thing I like most of JoeTerp's post is how he address the signing ups, always understanding the signing up as someone who's gonna be part of a context, making the pertinent questions about how he'll mix together into the team. Just the opposite to that other Real Madrid-esque or Football Manager computer game player-esque view of "the more expensive and rated players I buy the better". So despite I disagree some of his points, I congratulate him because of how he asks the question.

I won't put a starting a formation like this:

X-----X-----X-----X
---------X

or even like this

X----------------X
-----X-----X
--------X

We could do wedges, and other nice shapes but that is not important once the game starts and the players are moving.

a 4-4-2 used by Spain, and a 4-4-2 used by Liverpool might be similar when we see it in the screen before the match, but that's all the resemblance (even if you played all the 4 reds in the Spanish team at the same time!)

Why I disagree his point? If we hadn't a team to play 2 strikers, or we weren't close to it, Joe, Rafa would have never used a 2 strikers system these years, and he has. So if you ask me if I want Villa, yes, please. (But I don't think we will)

The only problem I see is man management. If you're a Rafa-esque kind of coach who find the best answer to every game, you might be tempted to find solutions for certain games that do not imply 2 strikers, and Rafa seems to like our 4-2-3-1. We cannot buy Villa to have Torres in the bench or viceversa.

Well liverpool just put in a bid for Silva, I think Rafa has a dream of coaching the Spanish national team + Gerrard....

I disagree mate. Rafa doesn't hesitate to drop Spaniards (Morientes, or now seemingly Alonso). Rafa's dream is to have a better team everyday, without having the money of Chelsea. And for that you have to use every trick you have, including the respect you have in your country (which accidentally have good players) to be able to convince those quality players to come to Liverpool.

I hear with excitement this news about Silva (Nanny made my morning happy) because it would improve the team absolutely. We have serious possibilities of Silva having a soft spot for Rafa, not only because the reputation Rafa has in Valencia, but because I think it was Rafa who pointed with his finger in the depths of Segunda Division and said "I want that winger from Eibar" (Silva).

I remember back then when several fans were saying why the fúck RS wasn't getting Silva from Eibar (a RS feeder club) and it was Rafa IIRC (or maybe Pako? I must check) who said I want him. I think that he is what we need.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:01 am

The only problem I see is man management. If you're a Rafa-esque kind of coach who find the best answer to every game, you might be tempted to find solutions for certain games that do not imply 2 strikers, and Rafa seems to like our 4-2-3-1. We cannot buy Villa to have Torres in the bench or viceversa.

Could it be that rafa stuck with the 4-2-3-1 because the one out and out striker who will score is torres? Not a choice he liked to make but one which was forced on him. He looked at crouch in a 4-4-2 but crouch never scored in one game or didnt click with torres and never offered what kuyt does. Rafa-esque to me seems to me to have patience with some more than others. Can crouch score goals of course he does, does kuyt? no but kuyt puts in a workman type ethos. I cant help but feel he is adopting Wengers policy of signing foreigners as they are cheaper and can do a job. Look at the Gareth Barry saga for instance.

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