Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Mon May 05, 2008 6:59 am

Besides noting the recovery of Torres to play yesterday after Rafa claimed he was taken off with an injury midweek, and Skrtel on the bench, do you think we can draw conclusions from some of the absentees and/or selections?

- Crouch not even on the bench, Voronin in his place
- No Riise in the squad, Insua at LB. One source I have suggested he formally signed for us in January this year, anyone know if this is true?
- Finnan at RB, Arbeloa not in the squad
- Alonso only on the bench, maybe on his way?
- No Plessis, perhaps he won't make too many appearances next season either

And so much for Toffeehater's suggestion Kewell would play for a 'pay as you play' contract. Never going to happen, I thought we'd all concluded that months ago when he vanished from sight.

So unless Crouch was injured I wonder if his absence was significant. Perhaps he fell out with Rafa having not made it off the bench midweek.

And on the topic of 'off the bench', am I alone in thinking Rafa has become all too predictable in his substitutions? Nearly always the wingers subbed, rare changes of formation or approach. I almost dread substitutions these days, you're more likely to be shocked by the player coming on or the player coming off, or the player left on the bench, than filled with optimism. I can't believe I'm alone in thinking you almost fear Gerrard or Torres are going to be taken off, maybe not a serious fear, but there in the back of your mind. And you can normally tell who's having a shocker, how often do they come off first? In fact maybe someone can persuade me that Rafa has made telling substitutions this season, I'm betting Babel is about the only name that will come into it.

It certainly wasn't the kids we thought it might be, that would have at least explained some absentees, but if Rafa was giving players a break what conclusions can we draw from those rested/not rested? Can we draw any? It was a stronger XI than you'd expect, I bet that p1 ssed off one or two managers who have an axe to grind with Rafa and his selection policies. It isn't who is selected that bothers them, only the result, and if they don't get the result then they focus on the XI. So easy to blame your own relegation in a 38 game season on ONE game where Rafa didn't play his best XI

by **andy_g** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:58 am

i think the absence of crouch, pennant and riise in the lap of honour is a lot more telling.

by **Feeney** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:07 am

andy_g wrote:i think the absence of crouch, pennant and riise in the lap of honour is a lot more telling.

Very true, I don't think we'll be seeing those players next year - of which only Crouch I think would be a shame.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:31 am

Feeney wrote:
andy_g wrote:i think the absence of crouch, pennant and riise in the lap of honour is a lot more telling.

Very true, I don't think we'll be seeing those players next year - of which only Crouch I think would be a shame.

agree with that. I like Crouch as a player and it would be a shame if he left.

by **alxy** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:44 pm

Same here. I like Crouch, but looking at how Rafa will play his games from now, I can't see Crouch playing a key role anymore. He can't play as a lone striker like how Torres does, so the only way to get into the side is alongside Torres. Which means we would play with Stevie G on the left or right (like in the CL game vs Arsenal) if Rafa wants to keep the 2 holding/central midfielders. And I don't see too many games like that. Crouch on the other hand, would surely not want to have another season like this one, whereby he played so few truly competitive games, and I don't blame him for that. So as much as I think Rafa would like to keep Crouch as an option, I think Crouch himself would force Rafa to sell him.

by **Reg** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:12 pm

Crouch not coming on against the Chavs was as blatent as Rafa shouting through a megaphone "Son, you´re wasting your time.'
Pretty sure Crouchie would have seen it that way and will be insitsing on a move this summer regardless of whatever Rafa promises.

Riise is probably still cut up and didnt want to face the fans however he should be on his way so it would have been nice to say goodbye to the fans rather than just sneak out the side door this summer.

Pennant? Who´s Pennant. Nuff said. Alonso, IMHO his future is in his hands and no one elses.
Voronin being on the bench is probably a signal to Villa, Portsmouth Bolton that he´s not crocked so they should make a move.

This side has gone as far as it can with a squad of freebies, low price gambles, false starts and few gems. If we´re to make a serious challenge on the league the above lads have to make way for some serious, high profile and skilled players who wont be cheap.

Plessis and the other young lads about to break into the first team are support players at this stage to the skill-set that we need to bring in. If they can take us to the next stage then fine however we need to take the cream from 2 or 3 different countries to compete with ManUre and Chavski. Is Alonso in that class, is he mentally strong enough? Not so sure.

Could go on for weeks but thats not what you want.

This team has gone as far as it can go both in the leagure and the EC. Time for change.

by **hello_red** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:22 pm

Reg wrote:Crouch not coming on against the Chavs was as blatent as Rafa shouting through a megaphone "Son, you´re wasting your time.'
Pretty sure Crouchie would have seen it that way and will be insitsing on a move this summer regardless of whatever Rafa promises.

Riise is probably still cut up and didnt want to face the fans however he should be on his way so it would have been nice to say goodbye to the fans rather than just sneak out the side door this summer.

Pennant? Who´s Pennant. Nuff said. Alonso, IMHO his future is in his hands and no one elses.
Voronin being on the bench is probably a signal to Villa, Portsmouth Bolton that he´s not crocked so they should make a move.

This side has gone as far as it can with a squad of freebies, low price gambles, false starts and few gems. If we´re to make a serious challenge on the league the above lads have to make way for some serious, high profile and skilled players who wont be cheap.

Plessis and the other young lads about to break into the first team are support players at this stage to the skill-set that we need to bring in. If they can take us to the next stage then fine however we need to take the cream from 2 or 3 different countries to compete with ManUre and Chavski. Is Alonso in that class, is he mentally strong enough? Not so sure.

Could go on for weeks but thats not what you want.

This team has gone as far as it can go both in the leagure and the EC. Time for change.

What you said about the squad going as far as it can with freebies and cheap alternatives is so true it hurts. Time for real investment in our wonderful club. We want the league? Then get spending!

Obviously we dont have chelseas or manures money, but we do have prestige and european pedigree and with some decent investment we can do it, we are close. But we have not been close until now due to a very poor squad. Infact its been poor since 1990. :help

by **Owzat** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:42 am

The problem is we keep signing players, not one or two but a handful each season, and get no closer. We'll be replacing Baros with Crouch with someone else and then someone else, it's a never ending quest for the right player in some positions. I'd like to know if Rafa has had the fastest turnaround of Liverpool players ever, some are only here for a season and gone the next, either they aren't given time to settle or they simply shouldn't have been signed anyway.

I note Keegan said he doesn't think he can bridge the gap, I was surprised by his honesty. A lot of wannabes fans think their team finishes 5-7 and will manage to make the top four the next season, I was amazed it was Keegan/someone related to Newcastle who actually appreciates the gap is bigger than points and placings. Maybe it's time someone in authority at Anfield made an assessment of the gap we need to bridge, we're spending plenty every summer and the gap isn't getting (much) smaller

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1....247.stm

by **Redman in wales** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:39 am

Owzat wrote:The problem is we keep signing players, not one or two but a handful each season, and get no closer. We'll be replacing Baros with Crouch with someone else and then someone else, it's a never ending quest for the right player in some positions. I'd like to know if Rafa has had the fastest turnaround of Liverpool players ever, some are only here for a season and gone the next, either they aren't given time to settle or they simply shouldn't have been signed anyway.

I think that’s a major problem too. To user a simple numbers system: If Torres, Gerrard and Mash are a 10, it seems we are replacing players who are a 5 with players who are a 6 and replacing 6’s with 7’s… no 9 or 10’s.

I mean Degan? – I know he might be a back-up player on a free, but we have 2 right backs who would be good enough for back ups so why don’t we go out and strengthen properly. Utd are now reported to be very close to signing Boswinga for £15mil, and this the kind of caliber we need.

The centre of the pitch is sorted, we all know that… lets focus on getting some real quality (not options or squad players) on the flanks and possibly a second striker as well.

And I know what you mean about high turnover too… IF we do get Degan… it’ll be Rafa’s 4th right back signing in 5 years

by **Reg** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:14 pm

Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:The problem is we keep signing players, not one or two but a handful each season, and get no closer. We'll be replacing Baros with Crouch with someone else and then someone else, it's a never ending quest for the right player in some positions. I'd like to know if Rafa has had the fastest turnaround of Liverpool players ever, some are only here for a season and gone the next, either they aren't given time to settle or they simply shouldn't have been signed anyway.

I think that’s a major problem too. To user a simple numbers system: If Torres, Gerrard and Mash are a 10, it seems we are replacing players who are a 5 with players who are a 6 and replacing 6’s with 7’s… no 9 or 10’s.

I mean Degan? – I know he might be a back-up player on a free, but we have 2 right backs who would be good enough for back ups so why don’t we go out and strengthen properly. Utd are now reported to be very close to signing Boswinga for £15mil, and this the kind of caliber we need.

The centre of the pitch is sorted, we all know that… lets focus on getting some real quality (not options or squad players) on the flanks and possibly a second striker as well.

And I know what you mean about high turnover too… IF we do get Degan… it’ll be Rafa’s 4th right back signing in 5 years

Spot on, excellent post. I like your number system!

BUT we have to face facts, buying a 9 costs a minimum 15 million. See below and Villa will be full price as well.

If we want a squad of 9´s (never mind just the team) then its gonna cost 20 x 15 million average = 300 million - before wages.
++

Utd deal for Bosingwa denied: 6th May 2008

Porto right-back Jose Bosingwa has not agreed terms with Manchester United, according to the player's agent.

United are reportedly tracking the defender, whose club confirmed last Friday that it would not consider any offer less than 20million euros (£15.7million) for the star.

Reports claimed the Red Devils have stepped up their interest in the 25-year-old, however Bosingwa's agent, Rui Neno, has dismissed the rumours, but admits the Portugal international would be interested in a move to the Premier League.

"There is not any sort of agreement with Manchester United," Neno said. "If any club bid the 30million euros set by the club, I believe there might be agreement.

"In Bosingwa's contract there is not any buyout clause preventing him from negotiating. What does he say? Well, he is receptive to offers and says that this is a good season to move on.

"What has happened is that clubs from, Spain, Italy, England and recently Germany have shown interest in the player.

"Given his style of play, I really think that he would adapt easily to the Premier League, despite the fact some other European clubs have shown their interest."

Neno confirmed he has had contact with some English clubs, but insists Aston Villa are not among them.

"Yes, but I prefer to keep quiet as it would be unpleasant to name those clubs' names now," he continued. "I just have to say that Aston Villa are not among those clubs.

"I have no idea where these suggestions [of Villa interest] came from. I have never been contacted by anyone from Aston Villa.

"It does not seem to me that the player would be interested to sign for Aston Villa, with all respect to the club. He would match up to a Champions League side."

by **Redman in wales** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:10 pm

Reg wrote:
Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:The problem is we keep signing players, not one or two but a handful each season, and get no closer. We'll be replacing Baros with Crouch with someone else and then someone else, it's a never ending quest for the right player in some positions. I'd like to know if Rafa has had the fastest turnaround of Liverpool players ever, some are only here for a season and gone the next, either they aren't given time to settle or they simply shouldn't have been signed anyway.

I think that’s a major problem too. To user a simple numbers system: If Torres, Gerrard and Mash are a 10, it seems we are replacing players who are a 5 with players who are a 6 and replacing 6’s with 7’s… no 9 or 10’s.

I mean Degan? – I know he might be a back-up player on a free, but we have 2 right backs who would be good enough for back ups so why don’t we go out and strengthen properly. Utd are now reported to be very close to signing Boswinga for £15mil, and this the kind of caliber we need.

The centre of the pitch is sorted, we all know that… lets focus on getting some real quality (not options or squad players) on the flanks and possibly a second striker as well.

And I know what you mean about high turnover too… IF we do get Degan… it’ll be Rafa’s 4th right back signing in 5 years

Spot on, excellent post. I like your number system!

BUT we have to face facts, buying a 9 costs a minimum 15 million. See below and Villa will be full price as well.

If we want a squad of 9´s (never mind just the team) then its gonna cost 20 x 15 million average = 300 million - before wages.
++

which is exactly why we need to talk about quality not quantity. I’m not saying we should or would be able to buy in 6 world class players a season, but one or two. If we got a top class full back such as Lahm or Alves and a top class winger such as Ribery (I know we would get him, but just for examples sake) this improves the team no end.

We don’t need to keep on buying these squad players because we’ve already got a squad–We don’t need to buy players like Degan if we’ve already got Arbeloa and then Finnan as a back-up (and even Carra if we need). I would only advise buying another right back if it was a top class one, otherwise leave that position alone and strengthen other positions.

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