Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:34 pm

yeah!!!!!

we're 8 points clear of 5th place!!! thats fecking progression!!! im gonna write a song to commemorate our outstanding season in the premier league

by **cpc4eva** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:27 am

dawson99 wrote:yeah!!!!!

we're 8 points clear of 5th place!!! thats fecking progression!!! im gonna write a song to commemorate our outstanding season in the premier league

thats the exact negative comment im talking bout.....

Dawson wats ur problem u have to be negative about everything.....

yeah we had a major lapse around xmas / new years it happens get over it....

we still got a place in CL next season, we still get more points than last season, we have gained on the bloody sods and only 14 points behind instead of 21

it will happen for us....

because u dont believe and u have no belief in us...... u can go and join the blue :censored:

with all the negative :censored:

coming out of your :censored:

by **Owzat** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:15 am

dawson99 wrote:yeah!!!!!

we're 8 points clear of 5th place!!! thats fecking progression!!! im gonna write a song to commemorate our outstanding season in the premier league

We should release a DVD, the first in a series starting with "the fantastic fourth" with the sequel set to be "champions once again" released next season. And the last in this particular trilogy will be "The Quadruple".

We're eight points ahead of the bitters - wow. Considering we've spent about twice as much as them we shouldn't have run it this close even. And how can it be progression if we're five points behind third where we finished the previous two seasons?!?!?!?!

Progression is where we are closer to winning the title than any previous season, clearly we are not.

points behind (negatives = ahead)

1st

2004/05 : 37 points
2005/06 : 9 points
2006/07 : 21 points
2007/08 : 12 points*

2nd

2004/05 : 25 points
2005/06 : 1 point
2006/07 : 15 points
2007/08 : 9 points*

3rd

2004/05 : 19 points
2005/06 : 0 points
2006/07 : 0 points
2007/08 : 5 points*

4th

2004/05 : 3 points
2005/06 : -15 points
2006/07 : 0 points
2007/08 : 0 points*

5th

2004/05 : 0 points
2005/06 : -17 points
2006/07 : -8 points
2007/08 : -8 points*

*season still to conclude, gap may increase or decrease

I think that graphically displays that 4th is our position and bar one season we've been within three points of fourth and one of our two third places was level on points with Arsenal in fourth. We got to within one point of second one season and the most we've been ahead of fourth is fifteen. That we've not even managed to shake off the CL wannabes in fifth easily most seasons shows that we're fighting for fourth more than we're competing for higher positions.

Arsenal will doubtless hold on to third, all we'll be doing is making sure of fourth with TWO games or less left and making a personal best points for fourth.

And for a nice little comparison, here's Houllier's comparitive record for 99/00 - 03/04 :

points behind (Houllier)

1st

1999/00 : 24 points
2000/01 : 11 points
2001/02 : 7 points
2002/03 : 19 points
2003/04 : 30 points

2nd

1999/00 : 6 points
2000/01 : 1 point
2001/02 : 0 points
2002/03 : 14 points
2003/04 : 19 points

3rd

1999/00 : 2 points
2000/01 : 0 points
2001/02 : -3 points
2002/03 : 5 points
2003/04 : 15 points

4th

1999/00 : 0 points
2000/01 : -1 points
2001/02 : -9 points
2002/03 : 3 points
2003/04 : 0 points

5th

1999/00 : -2 points
2000/01 : -3 points
2001/02 : -14 points
2002/03 : 0 points
2003/04 : -4 points

So Houllier was over that five season spell an average of 18 points behind the champions, Rafa so far is 20 points behind the champions on average. Taking just the most recent three seasons Houllier was 19 points behind on average and Rafa 14. But being slightly closer than Houllier a) isn't saying much and b) still isn't close enough. Times have changed with Chelsea spending freely and the mancs likewise, but if that's an excuse for the size of the gap then isn't it equally a big obstacle that Rafa has to overcome if he is to win the league?

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:09 pm

the reason im negative is because the one lapse we have, we have eEVERY year... i wanna be in the title race!!!! trust me im not negative about lfc, but when it comes o the premier league im a realist... anyone who says we are making progression when the league is what EVERY FAN wants mroe than anything else is slipping further and further away is an eejit... in my humble opinion

by **cpc4eva** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:29 pm

Top Goal Scorers 2001 - 2002

Michael Owen 28
Emile Heskey 14
Danny Murphy 8
John Arne Riise 8
Jari Litmanen 7

2002-03

Michael Owen 28
Milan Baros 12
Danny Murphy 12
Emile Heskey 9
Steven Gerrard 7

2003 2004

Michael Owen 19
Emile Heskey 12
Harry Kewell 11
Danny Murphy 8
Steven Gerrard 6
Sami Hyypia 5
Bruno Cheyrou 4

2004 - 2005

Milan Baros 13
Luis Garcia 13
Steven Gerrard 12
John Arne Riise 8
Djibril Cisse 5
Neil Mellor 5
Florent Sinama Pongolle 4

2005 - 2006

Steven Gerrard 23
Djibril Cisse 19
Peter Crouch 13
Luis Garcia 11
Fernando Morientes 9
Xabi Alonso 5
John Arne Riise 4

2006 - 2007

Peter Crouch 18
Dirk Kuyt 14
Steven Gerrard MBE 11
Craig Bellamy 9
Robbie Fowler 7
Luis Garcia 6
John Arne Riise 5

2007 - 2008

Fernando Torres 30
Steven Gerrard 21
Peter Crouch 10
Dirk Kuyt 10
Yossi Benayoun 10
Ryan Babel 9
Andriy Voronin 5

when was the last time we had 2 strikers score 20 + goals in a season ?

when was the last time we had one striker score 30 + goals in a season ??

2001 - 2002

Goals Scored = 67
Goals Conceded = 30

2002 - 03

Goals Scored = 61
Goals Conceded = 41

2003 - 04

Goals Scored = 55
Goals Conceded = 37

2004 - 05

Goals Scored = 52
Goals Conceded = 41

2005 - 06

Goals Scored = 57
Goals Conceded = 25

2006 - 07

Goals Scored = 57
Goals Conceded = 27

2007 - 08

Goals Scored = 62
Goals Conceded = 26

When was the last time we had a good attack and a good defence

The great man Bill Shankly took over the club in 1959 and described anfield as the biggest toilet in liverpool.

5 years passed..... It was 1964 when the first division title was won...

Rafa has taken over the club in a similar state and now has to contend with all the :censored:

thats going on behind the scenes aswell as limited funds....

Rafa has managed to keep our good players gerrard carra etc strengthen our defence and given us hope with the magic of torres...

theres also genuine quality coming through reserves and youth teams

IT WILL HAPPEN..........................

by **VamosRafa** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:43 am

I'll only feel we have progressed in the league when we remain in the title race beyond Jan/Feb

by **Owzat** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:07 pm

Can someone change the title to "Our regression under rafa" ?

Not sure how being one place lower in the league while repeating our European success is exactly progress.

by **cpc4eva** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:20 am

THE MANAGERIAL COMPARISONS
=========================

NEWS STORY
BENITEZ HEADING FOR REDS MILESTONE
Jimmy Rice 24 April 2008

Rafa Benitez will take charge of his 150th league game for Liverpool on Saturday looking to create the second best record of any manager in Anfield history.

A victory would mean the Spaniard has chalked up 82 wins in 150 games – more than any predecessor except Kenny Dalglish.

The King masterminded 87 victories in his first 150 games, with Gerard Houllier on 81, Bob Paisley 79, Bill Shankly 77, Roy Evans 72 and Tom Watson 66.

A clean sheet on Saturday would also give Benitez the joint best defensive record in any manager's first 150 league games.

His side has so far conceded 119 goals in the top flight – level with Bob Paisley.

Meanwhile, Benitez's record in his first 149 games compares favourably with that of Manchester United counterpart Alex Ferguson.

Benitez has won 81, lost 34, scored 228 and conceded 119. Ferguson won 63, lost 43, scored 205 and conceded 152.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:43 am

cpc4eva wrote:THE MANAGERIAL COMPARISONS
=========================

NEWS STORY
BENITEZ HEADING FOR REDS MILESTONE
Jimmy Rice 24 April 2008

Rafa Benitez will take charge of his 150th league game for Liverpool on Saturday looking to create the second best record of any manager in Anfield history.

A victory would mean the Spaniard has chalked up 82 wins in 150 games – more than any predecessor except Kenny Dalglish.

The King masterminded 87 victories in his first 150 games, with Gerard Houllier on 81, Bob Paisley 79, Bill Shankly 77, Roy Evans 72 and Tom Watson 66.

A clean sheet on Saturday would also give Benitez the joint best defensive record in any manager's first 150 league games.

His side has so far conceded 119 goals in the top flight – level with Bob Paisley.

Meanwhile, Benitez's record in his first 149 games compares favourably with that of Manchester United counterpart Alex Ferguson.

Benitez has won 81, lost 34, scored 228 and conceded 119. Ferguson won 63, lost 43, scored 205 and conceded 152.

Interesting that.

although I am sure he was just lucky.

by **JBG** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:58 am

The Paisley comparison is hugely unusual.

by **redtrader74** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:06 pm

Although I support the manager, comparisons with times when there were 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw are not relevant in terms of wins. That said the surprising thing is the comparison with Paisleys goals conceded, considering the above point that going for a win now is more valuable than it was.

by **bigmick** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:20 pm

Reds is a sensible post in that it attempts to put things into context. I'm not a fanatical follower of the manager although I do readily accept he has done many good things, but I do wish that those who choose to support him slavishly would refrain from comparing him to the likes of Paisley, Shankly and Dalglish. the ONLY comparison worth talking about in any given season is how many points you got compared to anybody else THAT season. If next year the Premiership suddenly becomes mega competitive and the winners have only 70 points, as long as it's us I couldn't give a feck. If we got 13 less points than we did in Houlliers heart attack season of 2003 (sorry if the dates are wrong I've just got in here and am making it up) then who cares? Champions is champions.

However people love and adore Rafa, he is not currently worthy of being mentioned in the same breath, the same stratosphere as the great Liverpool managers as he has never ever even challenged for the league, least of all actually won the thing. It really is as simple as that I'm afraid.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:50 pm

bigmick wrote:Reds is a sensible post in that it attempts to put things into context. I'm not a fanatical follower of the manager although I do readily accept he has done many good things, but I do wish that those who choose to support him slavishly would refrain from comparing him to the likes of Paisley, Shankly and Dalglish. the ONLY comparison worth talking about in any given season is how many points you got compared to anybody else THAT season. If next year the Premiership suddenly becomes mega competitive and the winners have only 70 points, as long as it's us I couldn't give a feck. If we got 13 less points than we did in Houlliers heart attack season of 2003 (sorry if the dates are wrong I've just got in here and am making it up) then who cares? Champions is champions.

However people love and adore Rafa, he is not currently worthy of being mentioned in the same breath, the same stratosphere as the great Liverpool managers as he has never ever even challenged for the league, least of all actually won the thing. It really is as simple as that I'm afraid.

Its all reletavie though mate.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:25 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Reds is a sensible post in that it attempts to put things into context. I'm not a fanatical follower of the manager although I do readily accept he has done many good things, but I do wish that those who choose to support him slavishly would refrain from comparing him to the likes of Paisley, Shankly and Dalglish. the ONLY comparison worth talking about in any given season is how many points you got compared to anybody else THAT season. If next year the Premiership suddenly becomes mega competitive and the winners have only 70 points, as long as it's us I couldn't give a feck. If we got 13 less points than we did in Houlliers heart attack season of 2003 (sorry if the dates are wrong I've just got in here and am making it up) then who cares? Champions is champions.

However people love and adore Rafa, he is not currently worthy of being mentioned in the same breath, the same stratosphere as the great Liverpool managers as he has never ever even challenged for the league, least of all actually won the thing. It really is as simple as that I'm afraid.

Its all reletavie though mate.

Paisley Won 2 league titles a UEFA cup and two European cups in his first 4 seasons

Fagan won League Title, League cup and European cup in his first season.

Dalglish won 2 league titles and two Fa cups in his first 4

Its all relative though mate

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:29 pm

so what if he has better records in terms of goals, conceeded, wins, losses, draws whatever. Has he won a league title? NO. I'd rather see stats saying Benitez has won four league titles in four years than Benitez has won 82 games out of 150 games.

Liverpool FC Forum

Progress Under Rafa - Analysis and Opinion

Who is online