Liverpool FC Forum

[Bam]

The problem I have with your posts are not your posts per se, is that many have jumped your bandwagon in order to justify our success, and do not mention these things any more.

I dont see many posters in here jumping on his "bandwagon" just myself, and for the record its been my OWN opinion.

Just thought I'd clarify this incase it was a snidey remark.

And also if I did say Rafa needed a number two or any other thing your moaning about, its just another critisim and opinion. I think that Sammy Lee will have a positive effect in the right areas for the team.

What is wrong with that ? 

[Sabre]

Bam, you were not the only Rafa basher, I'm talking about a lot of people. A lot (as in dozens). Some regulars, some occasionals. It's not a snidey remark and in fact I'm doing my best to try to avoid your posts and your answers...

Don't get this personal, I don't even know if it was you, the other or the other, but will you deny that there was important stick to Rafa?

If so, how come we are talking only about Rafa has seen the light?

[bigmick]

In actual fact Sabes, whilst I agree Rafa has had lots of stick (some of it unfair) there isn't really much on this thread to be totally honest. Mostly, the thread is a great example of sensible debate and reasoned argument. Maybe the thread title indicates that its a Rafa bashing thread, but the reality is it's not really.

I must confess, when I read it I got all nostalgic about how good the forum can actually be. There's some brilliant posts in it, by many posters on all sides of all divides.

[Bam]

but will you deny that there was important stick to Rafa?

Do you mean he's been heavily critised and been given lots of stick in the past ?

If you do, then I'd totally agree with that. I gave him stick, a hell of a lot on here about rotations, transfers, formations and tactics. But it wasnt in the notion like ..... Rafa is a c**t type of thing. It was a bit more analitical than that I think. Yes some people in the heat of the moment have said some pretty harsh words against, TBH those comments go in one ear out the other, its knee Jerkish and I've been guilty of that in the past, I have no qualms admitting this.

But regarding my football posts and critisims about him imo they were fair, backed with ideas why, not just 'he's knows feckall about the English game' comments.

[Bam]

I must confess, when I read it I got all nostalgic about how good the forum can actually be

I thought that to.

Where is the likes of Redtrader74 and Ivor the injured, both were very good posters.

[stmichael]

Give Rafa a new contract now.

[Rafa D]

We're beating the best teams, we're beating the shit teams, we're coming from behind to win games, and we can do this without all of our best players. It's title winning stuff.

[account deleted by request]

It was and is a really interesting thread. I've just read the last page or so and I stand by every single word I said back then. Infact, in many ways my extlolling the fact that Rafa had "seen the light" was way ahead of it's time. Much of the stuff I posted on this thread has proved to be positively prophetic and it's definately one of my better efforts, so not even a smidge of retraction from me. As far as "seeing the light", my coinfidence that if we selected more sensibly we'd challenge etc etc I couldn't have been more on the money if I tried. Thanks for bringing the thread up 

Credit were its due Mick. I never thought Rafa would "see the light." I thought ROTATION or STYLING was such an important part of his philosophy that he would go down fighting rather than change.

It seems strange to me that, others seem to have some difficulty admitting that, especially in the light of the fact that only Riera of our new signings has really played well up to now.

For me though the key has been the lack of styling this season. I don't believe we would have had the resiliance to bounce back in so many games if we had been styling to the extent we did last season, and like you always said (and I always agreed with this part)once you get the momentum and confidence high, team spirit strong, you are in with half a chance. 

If Keane had been knocking goals in for fun, or playing out of his skin, maybe just maybe there would be a reasonable argument against your "seen the light" argument, as it stands I don't believe there is any doubt. Certainly Rafa must agree or he would have made wholesale changes against Chelsea, especially after saying how tired a few of our players looked midweek.

Of course the difficulty now is can we give the players adequate rest while keeping the team strong and without styling to the extent that it affects performance?

I accept you were right on "seeing the light" mate, just as I reluctantly accepted you were right over rotation. I also accept that Rafa has proved to be a bigger man than I thought, and has accepted that the ideas and beliefs he had before wern't quite working and has changed them for the good of the team.

No doubt some will look for other reasons ..... I just think you found the main one.

[stmichael]

Rafa deserves unlimited credit for the number of leaders we have in the squad now imo. If you look at it, Pepe, Carra, Agger, Mascherano, Xabi, Gerrard, Kuyt, Keane and Torres are all captain material character wise.

[Bam]

Have to admit S@int, I never thought for one minute Rafa would change his philosophy either. Like you I expected him to go down fighting with it.

Have to admit, I'm over the moon to of called that one wrong.

[andy_g]

i'm still not convinced about this 'seeng the light' argument. granted that so far this season, and towards the end of the last one, he has made nowehere near the amount of unnecessary changes as he used to. but i still have to say that i will be surprised if if on more than one occasion this season we aren't collectively scratching our heads about a team sheet or the position a player is playing in.

the major factor for me though is the belief that is now running through the team/squad. whether this is down to rafa's input, sammy lee's input, or simply from the fact that we've started the season well is still unclear. its safe to say though that in terms of belief, ability and depth we are at the best point of rafa's reign right now and in a better state than we have been for a long time.

[Ben1988]

we will see on wednesday how much of the light he has seen, if he makes 6 changes and we dont win itl b all doom n gloom again. I do think he needs to make a few, seems like we have had some big games recently and some of our big guns could do with a rest.

Think its a good time to be meeting pompy but ill write about that in the other thread.

[Sabre]

Give Rafa a new contract now.

That sentence sums it up how much the atmosphere has changed.

Back then polls were done to check whether Rafa had to continue, let alone giving a new contract.

These days most of the members would back a decission to give him a new contract. Perhaps some Anti Rafas would advocate for not hurrying to give him a new contract and let run the existing one, but it would be a minority I think.

Anyhow, and as Lando says in the match thread we shouldn't get too carried away. If people are thinking on giving a new contract to Rafa because we're on top of the table, people must know that a lot of things can go wrong until summer, regardless we rotate or not.

My point is that we shouldn't back Rafa looking at the table *now*, we should be asking whether he's been improving the team progressively during his reign, whether we have cut the gap between us and Manchester and CHelsea, whether he's the man to make us victorious again in the league not once, but regularly.

I've always thought he is, even after a dissapointing season like the last one, I still saw the team was improving.

[kazza]

In actual fact Sabes, whilst I agree Rafa has had lots of stick (some of it unfair) there isn't really much on this thread to be totally honest. Mostly, the thread is a great example of sensible debate and reasoned argument. Maybe the thread title indicates that its a Rafa bashing thread, but the reality is it's not really.

I must confess, when I read it I got all nostalgic about how good the forum can actually be. There's some brilliant posts in it, by many posters on all sides of all divides.

Actually it was a positive thread opened at a time when there were no positive threads. I said it then and I still believe it and that is we are a much better than we were under GH (no brainer). That is the macro version anyway, and I will leave the micro reasons for others.

[LFC2007]

We're only three points ahead of Hull City FFS! You call this progression?