Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:10 pm

RedBlood wrote:loooooooool yeh buyin babel was a maaaasssssssssiiiiivvvvvvvvveeeeeeeee hahahahaha

yeh we shoulda let him go 2 arsanel r waited 4 his value 2 go up ten million

maybe we shoulda let the mancs get lucas aswell looooooooooooooooooooooooool "beyond belief: Fact or fiction 2012" "we shouldnt of got babel"..did sum1 actually say this..............well find out afta the break

Once again this post poor grammar and no punctuation whatsoever.

Can anyone understand this post?

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:29 pm

nobybob wrote:how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:51 pm

I don't think its anything to do with being a "glory hunter" if it was people would be quite happy with Rafa and doing well in Europe every season. I have supported Liverpool for over 40 years, through the bad times and the good. I think its just a case of people worrying that we are seeing no progress in the one area that really matters to most Liverpool supporters.... the League.

I have swayed back and forward on this, some days I think he's had his chances and should go, other days I feel he deserves more time. I am just going with the flow now, if he goes he goes, if he stays he stays. There is nothing we can do about it anyway, apart from moan if he goes and moan if he stays.

I don't honestly believe he will win us the league in the next few years, but I do believe he will win us cups. I have to a large extent lost faith in his methods where the league is concerned, yet I still believe he is a good manager. Confused? so am I mate.

I just want to see some real progress in the league, where as at the moment it seems we have taken at least two steps backwards. I think both sides of the arguement have valid points , I just wish more put them across as you have rather than trying to bully people into agreeing with them.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:43 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
nobybob wrote:how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....
:angry:

by **Yosa** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:49 pm

I totally agree with JBG.

I was also a big defender of Rafa, but the first bit of disquiet I felt was the 07 Champions League final. It sounds a bit harsh, since he got us there in the first place, but his apparently ilogical and incredibly poor team choice left me gobsmacked. I still can't reconcile his poor decisions during the game. But that's all water under the bridge now.

To come back to the original post, Rafa has done nothing since then to reassure me that he knows what is going on. Some of his buys are great, but outweighed by the dross that he's bought as well. As has been said, his first team choices defy belief, given the quality and current form of some of the players in question. What Manager anywhere would so steadfastly refuse to play the guy who is presently England's top striker? While, at the same, time playing Kuyt. How well I remember the criticism levelled at Baros for running around like a "chicken with no head", come back Milan all is forgiven.

More and more I see performances spiralling downwards, as a direct result of Rafas decisions, which he then compounds, over and over, by being stubborn. His cup successes are looking more like blips, rather than an indication of any overall improvement in quality under his Managership.

Definately time to go. Who should replace him? Obviously Mourhinio would be the front runner, but after recent weeks, I'd even live with Harry Redknap!

by **Ciggy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:54 pm

Glory Hunters behave.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:58 pm

Yosa wrote:I totally agree with JBG.

I was also a big defender of Rafa, but the first bit of disquiet I felt was the 07 Champions League final. It sounds a bit harsh, since he got us there in the first place, but his apparently ilogical and incredibly poor team choice left me gobsmacked. I still can't reconcile his poor decisions during the game. But that's all water under the bridge now.

To come back to the original post, Rafa has done nothing since then to reassure me that he knows what is going on. Some of his buys are great, but outweighed by the dross that he's bought as well. As has been said, his first team choices defy belief, given the quality and current form of some of the players in question. What Manager anywhere would so steadfastly refuse to play the guy who is presently England's top striker? While, at the same, time playing Kuyt. How well I remember the criticism levelled at Baros for running around like a "chicken with no head", come back Milan all is forgiven.

More and more I see performances spiralling downwards, as a direct result of Rafas decisions, which he then compounds, over and over, by being stubborn. His cup successes are looking more like blips, rather than an indication of any overall improvement in quality under his Managership.

Definately time to go. Who should replace him? Obviously Mourhinio would be the front runner, but after recent weeks, I'd even live with Harry Redknap!

A good post mate, until you spoiled it with..... "I'd even live with Harry Redknap". Apart from the fact that his wife might not like it, he is getting on a bit.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:18 pm

The_Rock wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:
nobybob wrote:how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....

If you want to live on the success of 70's and 80's, then that's fine, but ever since the early nineties Liverpool's reputation as a big club has steadily been decreasing. Rafa came and restored the status of this club and now we are a European giant again. He has won everything there is to win at this club except for the league.

I am one of those people that thinks he can win the league if he had more time, and I believe that we'd still be challenging if it wasn't for this off the field crisis. It's just really disappointing to see how so many supporters cannot see the bigger picture and are quick to judge the manager on this season.

by **megabomberman** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:55 pm

I think people are far too harsh on Rafa, Liverpool are playing rubbish because of a lack of confidence, it has seriously adverse effects on the way a team plays, just look at Totenham earlier in the season, all the board room rubbish that filtered down destroyed Martin Jol and ultimately the team. Same applies to Liverpool.... At the start of the season Liverpool looked like a million bucks, passing moving, energy, harrassing other teams, everyone wanting to get on the ball, but take a look now and you see a shell of the side. Perhaps Rafa has to take some of the blame for this for unsettling the team with rotation et al. but still I think he has moved our club to a position of high potential, we are close but no quite there yet.

When people talk about Rafa buying quantity and not quality I think this is an unfair argument levelled at him. Rafa needed to strengthen the entire set-up... Now he has an entire squad, extra players for every position.. Perhaps some of them aren't great but this summer you'll see some of these lesser positions being strengthened. Risse may go and we'll get a stronger left back.. We could see Kewell leaving and get a new exciting left winger. And sadly Crouch may go (along with voronin) which could pave the way for a new striker.. Look what happened with sissoko... Rafa already had a solid mid field but he got masch in ontop of it... People were all roaring on about rafa not buying for the right positions but now momo has gone for 8mil Xabi could be on his way out for 15mil to help finance masch further.... Rafa knows the spine of the team is most important and its beginning to look more and more impressive, take a look at this

Carson/pepe

Carra/skrytel/agger

Alonso/gerrard/masch/lucas

torres/crouch

Couple in the exciting babel and impressive arbeloa, and you can clearly see that liverpool are advancing, of course we have some bits and pieces players like risse,voronin, benayoun, pennant, kuyt etc etc, But rome wasn't built in a day, rafa can't get top players in every position right away but he's getting closer. Give it time, he's building something awesome.

If he's guilty of one thing its over analysis, and sometimes causes questionable team selections, incredulous at times (kuyt of crouch).. but if we know anything its his ridiculously meticulous nature that sets him apart from most managers. I would definitely give my vote to let him see out the rest of the contract (bar a complete disaster) he has moved us forward, people who say we're the same as we were when he took us over are incorrect. Liverpool were slipping out of control when Houllier handed over the reigns. Rafa has established us as part of the "BIG FOUR" something which was never touted before he came in...

He has done this under immense pressure, and the flooding of money to clubs like Man City, West ham etc, with the raft on new owners taking over clubs... This is a point that I never hear being made...

Lets give Rafa our time, he has his faults and things we disagree with, but not everyone is always going to agree with everything the manager does (even think back a year or 2 ago to fergie playing around with 4-5-1s etc but look at them now) but we have to back him to the full extent..

In Rafa we trust YNWA

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:13 pm

What makes a top manager?

We all know who the "supposed" top managers are, but there are so many factors that make a manager to be considered as "top". Available money, back room staff, working enviroment, backing of the board.

Is a good manager someone who can spot a player, or is it someone who takes notice of someone who can spot a good player.

In modern football there are experts who do all different parts of what would historically be all parts of a managers job.

I was just wondering as we are all talking about who, if Rafa left, would be good enough to take over, but I think there maybe someone out there who has not yet had the chance to shine due to the working restraints at his current club.

I think nowadays you don't need a good manager, but a good management team that would include a fitness expert, a tactical expert, a motivator, a talent spotter and in Liverpools case, someone who understands the history and ways of the club. If you have these people and they are all recognised for their skills and allowed to put their ideas forward you would have the perfect "manager". I don't believe one person can be all things in football management, which maybe is why if Rafa is to survive he needs to open his ears and hear what the people around him are saying. If no-one is talking, maybe Liverpool need to invest in the backroom staff before sacking Rafa.

However, I get the feeling it is more likely Rafa is his own man and only listens to himself. People who challenge him may well find themself signing on!

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:32 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:
nobybob wrote:how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....

If you want to live on the success of 70's and 80's, then that's fine, but ever since the early nineties Liverpool's reputation as a big club has steadily been decreasing. Rafa came and restored the status of this club and now we are a European giant again. He has won everything there is to win at this club except for the league.

I am one of those people that thinks he can win the league if he had more time, and I believe that we'd still be challenging if it wasn't for this off the field crisis. It's just really disappointing to see how so many supporters cannot see the bigger picture and are quick to judge the manager on this season.

Has Benitez won the league cup in england, because I can't remember him winning that

Under Evans we were never 37 points behind the champions, so just because you've only started supporting us from the success of 05, don't assume the rest of have forgotten where we were. In the mids 90s we were playing great football, the 90s wasn't only managed by Souness, who had us playing just as bad as we are now. Evans had us playing great football. Houllier won trophies while manager, while trying to rebuild, unfortunately his signings constantly let him down, saying that, those that did succeed under Houllier have been great players for the club.

So again don't assume we've moved that much further on, because we haven't. Liverpool have always been a huge team around Europe and the rest of the world, not just because of Benitez' success in the European Cup in 2005. We'll always be a big team in Europe. It wasn't Benitez who made us a "european giant again" because we never lost that status.

by **burjennio** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:07 pm

god_bless_john_houlding Posted on Feb. 04 2008,15:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,13:18)
Quote (The_Rock @ Feb. 04 2008,12:43)
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,18:29)
Quote (nobybob @ Feb. 04 2008,09:37)
how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....

If you want to live on the success of 70's and 80's, then that's fine, but ever since the early nineties Liverpool's reputation as a big club has steadily been decreasing. Rafa came and restored the status of this club and now we are a European giant again. He has won everything there is to win at this club except for the league.

I am one of those people that thinks he can win the league if he had more time, and I believe that we'd still be challenging if it wasn't for this off the field crisis. It's just really disappointing to see how so many supporters cannot see the bigger picture and are quick to judge the manager on this season.

Has Benitez won the league cup in england, because I can't remember him winning that

Under Evans we were never 37 points behind the champions, so just because you've only started supporting us from the success of 05, don't assume the rest of have forgotten where we were. In the mids 90s we were playing great football, the 90s wasn't only managed by Souness, who had us playing just as bad as we are now. Evans had us playing great football. Houllier won trophies while manager, while trying to rebuild, unfortunately his signings constantly let him down, saying that, those that did succeed under Houllier have been great players for the club.

So again don't assume we've moved that much further on, because we haven't. Liverpool have always been a huge team around Europe and the rest of the world, not just because of Benitez' success in the European Cup in 2005. We'll always be a big team in Europe. It wasn't Benitez who made us a "european giant again" because we never lost that status.

Nonsense, Houllier won the UEFA cup, a competition Middlesborough amd Celtic have made the final of in recent years. He also conceded 4 goals to Alaves (who?) in the final a team currently languishing in the segunda in Spain. His CL experiences were laughable, look what he did in Leverkusen, away at Basle, at home to Barca and Valencia we were outclassed, his coaching ability in the premier competition in European football was found out. And if we never lost the status of European giant then why did we only appear in the CL twice ever before Benitez arrival? Since he came we have appeared in the competition EVERY SEASON and always made the knockout stages - so don't try and make out that Rafa has not changed perceptions of LFC in the European game, it stinks of Anti-Rafa propaganda, its been rife on here lately, and its a disgrace

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:30 pm

burjennio wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding Posted on Feb. 04 2008,15:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,13:18)
Quote (The_Rock @ Feb. 04 2008,12:43)
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,18:29)
Quote (nobybob @ Feb. 04 2008,09:37)
how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....

If you want to live on the success of 70's and 80's, then that's fine, but ever since the early nineties Liverpool's reputation as a big club has steadily been decreasing. Rafa came and restored the status of this club and now we are a European giant again. He has won everything there is to win at this club except for the league.

I am one of those people that thinks he can win the league if he had more time, and I believe that we'd still be challenging if it wasn't for this off the field crisis. It's just really disappointing to see how so many supporters cannot see the bigger picture and are quick to judge the manager on this season.

Has Benitez won the league cup in england, because I can't remember him winning that

Under Evans we were never 37 points behind the champions, so just because you've only started supporting us from the success of 05, don't assume the rest of have forgotten where we were. In the mids 90s we were playing great football, the 90s wasn't only managed by Souness, who had us playing just as bad as we are now. Evans had us playing great football. Houllier won trophies while manager, while trying to rebuild, unfortunately his signings constantly let him down, saying that, those that did succeed under Houllier have been great players for the club.

So again don't assume we've moved that much further on, because we haven't. Liverpool have always been a huge team around Europe and the rest of the world, not just because of Benitez' success in the European Cup in 2005. We'll always be a big team in Europe. It wasn't Benitez who made us a "european giant again" because we never lost that status.

Nonsense, Houllier won the UEFA cup, a competition Middlesborough amd Celtic have made the final of in recent years. He also conceded 4 goals to Alaves (who?) in the final a team currently languishing in the segunda in Spain. His CL experiences were laughable, look what he did in Leverkusen, away at Basle, at home to Barca and Valencia we were outclassed, his coaching ability in the premier competition in European football was found out. And if we never lost the status of European giant then why did we only appear in the CL twice ever before Benitez arrival? Since he came we have appeared in the competition EVERY SEASON and always made the knockout stages - so don't try and make out that Rafa has not changed perceptions of LFC in the European game, it stinks of Anti-Rafa propaganda, its been rife on here lately, and its a disgrace

I have to agree.

by **megabomberman** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:58 pm

burjennio wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding Posted on Feb. 04 2008,15:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,13:18)
Quote (The_Rock @ Feb. 04 2008,12:43)
Quote (ruskiy playmaker @ Feb. 04 2008,18:29)
Quote (nobybob @ Feb. 04 2008,09:37)
how sad is it to find that maunure fans showed more loyalty to their manager when he won fu.ck all in his first few years than you so called Liverpool fans are showing now to a man who has won plenty. And if you think its fair and right to judge Rafa by this season with all that's gone on owner wise your mad , and if you want to judge him for his results in the premier previously remember he finished above Weneger this so called tactical genius in his second and third season here or did you forget that? your all nothing but FICKLE , GLORY hunting, PLASTIC SCOUSERS. Shame on you all-- and if you want to try ganging up on me or getting me red carded like you did to LANDO then go for it ,cos you don't deserve anymore of my time, I'm not even gonna read your predictable repetitive RAFA hating cr@p replies OK so go ahead do your worst--- some of you make me feel embarrassed to be a scouser

I've got to agree with you. I started supporting Liverpool when Rafa came over from Valencia, but I am surprised that I have more loyalty for the manager than many of these life long LFC supporters. One of the main reasons I chose to support this club ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U is because of the traditions and the loyalty of the supporters. But I guess that the manager raised the bar too high when he won the CL in his first season and it has turned many of the fans into glory hunters. If these fans and owners would just give Rafa more time, I'm sure he would have given them the title. But unfortunately I cannot see him staying here for the next season.

WTF

Do you think liverpool were never successful before rafa came here ? Learn the history before shooting down members here....

If you want to live on the success of 70's and 80's, then that's fine, but ever since the early nineties Liverpool's reputation as a big club has steadily been decreasing. Rafa came and restored the status of this club and now we are a European giant again. He has won everything there is to win at this club except for the league.

I am one of those people that thinks he can win the league if he had more time, and I believe that we'd still be challenging if it wasn't for this off the field crisis. It's just really disappointing to see how so many supporters cannot see the bigger picture and are quick to judge the manager on this season.

Has Benitez won the league cup in england, because I can't remember him winning that

Under Evans we were never 37 points behind the champions, so just because you've only started supporting us from the success of 05, don't assume the rest of have forgotten where we were. In the mids 90s we were playing great football, the 90s wasn't only managed by Souness, who had us playing just as bad as we are now. Evans had us playing great football. Houllier won trophies while manager, while trying to rebuild, unfortunately his signings constantly let him down, saying that, those that did succeed under Houllier have been great players for the club.

So again don't assume we've moved that much further on, because we haven't. Liverpool have always been a huge team around Europe and the rest of the world, not just because of Benitez' success in the European Cup in 2005. We'll always be a big team in Europe. It wasn't Benitez who made us a "european giant again" because we never lost that status.

Nonsense, Houllier won the UEFA cup, a competition Middlesborough amd Celtic have made the final of in recent years. He also conceded 4 goals to Alaves (who?) in the final a team currently languishing in the segunda in Spain. His CL experiences were laughable, look what he did in Leverkusen, away at Basle, at home to Barca and Valencia we were outclassed, his coaching ability in the premier competition in European football was found out. And if we never lost the status of European giant then why did we only appear in the CL twice ever before Benitez arrival? Since he came we have appeared in the competition EVERY SEASON and always made the knockout stages - so don't try and make out that Rafa has not changed perceptions of LFC in the European game, it stinks of Anti-Rafa propaganda, its been rife on here lately, and its a disgrace

Completely true, it is disgusting the way people want to devalue everything this great man has done for our club.... Just because people don't think he's the man to carry our club to an EPL doesn't mean he has done nothing...

This is a man who genuinely loves and cares for the club, at least pay him his dues...

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:59 pm

One reason why we only in the Champions League before Benitez is because for a long period of time, it was only the CHAMPIONS who made the competition, now as we've proven you can come 5th and enter it. You can come 4th, and enter it, what have 2nd,3rd,4th been champions of to enter the CHAMPIONS League.

Also, you're complaining Houllier conceeded 4 to Alaves, Benitez conceeded two to Havant and bloody Waterlooville. Also under Houllier we beat Barcelona and Roma on our way to the UEFA Cup, as well as beating Bayern Munich in the Super Cup. So anyone who think we weren't a European side before Benitez is well and truly wrong.

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