My indictment of the rafa benitez regime

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby redhayesy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:56 pm

bigmick wrote:BTW I think we should be looking for a change at the end of the season. This applies regardless to how we perform in the FA Cup and the Champions League. I don't personally think we'll win either but thats my position anyway. As for a replacement, if he's still available and he'll come, Mourinho is the absolutely outstanding candidate. If not, somebody else.

sorry bm but i have to disagree strongly with you there!
i actually look foward to reading your posts, but this is
one post of yours i have to take exception too!
purely for the fact you & many others on your choice
of a replacement for raffa, i hate the tw@t that
you mention, let alone the fact jump in the poor
b@st@rds grave why don"t we before he"s even gone.
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Postby teamleader1 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:12 am

NANNY RED wrote:First Lakes says im going senile and now you deaf i must be cause when im at the games home or away i cant hear no one singin anything but Raffa Benitez and im positive its just not one little group by me. :D I mean i see peoples mouth movin in the stands aswell as the kop or am i seeing thing now . Nah i dont think so

So come on Rock run your poll again How many match goin fans want Raffa out i think youll get a different view mate

I go the game and I want Rafa out, ive supported him in the past but after 3 years we are still watching a team of strangers,
Its not working, his rotation system stops all continuity on the pitch, lots of his selections are indefencable, hes taking us nowhere,
ffs there are no more excuses, hes proved beyond any doubt that he cant hack it in the prem,
The biggest indication of this is the fact that Im going the game tommorow not fully expecting to beat a relegation side at Anfield
And sadly Im not alone in this,
Rafa is not the answer, like it or not, its time for a change
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Postby RedBlood » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:27 am

Ill stick with Rafa

:blues:
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Postby ivor_the_injun » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:28 am

I was with you JBG until that last paragraph. To decry the lack of quality at the club on a par with times past, and then to advocate the appointment of Mourinho is a real contradiction. I've always been proud of the Liverpool way of conducting ourselves in public, and I'd be embarrassed to have a "personality" manager like Maureen spouting nonsense in post-match interviews.

For me there's a real absence of square pegs into square holes at the club these days. The point's been made about Kuyt not being played as an off-the-last-man striker, but for me the lack of consistent width is still killing us. Everyone agrees that Riise has had a shocking season, but to date he's made 17 league appearances, more even than Mascherano (15). Many of these appearances have been at left mid, where his policy seems to me to be to run straight at his man with the ball. That's a tactic that will find you out in league 1, and for an apparently top 4 side to be happy to put a guy out that's that limited in a position where the team we're looking to overhaul have an abundance of options, all better than our best option, is nothing short of stupidity.

I accept how thin we've been at times at central defence, but I can't sit here and tell you that I wouldn't have rather we'd just given Jack Hobbs the chance to step up, and used the 6 mill we paid for Skrtel on a left winger that can beat a man and cross a ball. There are plenty of them out there, some admittedly more average than others, but if Benitez seriously thinks that 6 mill can't buy a player more suited to left wing than Riise or - even worse - Kuyt, then he's simply wrong.

Kewell is still the best we have, but I've been sad to see how ineffectual he's been at times. I really hoped to see a real explosion from him out there now his fitness has returned, but he's getting worse with every game if anything, and my confidence in him has dipped so low that I swapped him out of my fantasy football league team earlier today. Maybe it would help if he was played week in, week out, but it doesn't look like happening, and right now he looks every inch a Portsmouth or West Ham player-in-waiting. I don't know the ins and outs of his contract situation, but I can't see another one coming at LFC, and I'm starting to resign myself to the idea that he'll leave on a free transfer.

The right is less clear cut, as I do rate both Pennant and Benayoun. Pennant I think still has a lot to offer, while I think Benayoun would be better employed playing off Torres as opposed to a wide man. You do look at both though, then look at Giggs, even at his advanced age, and wonder if either are up to the job in hand. They're good, but they're not better than what our rivals have. Obviously the calls for Gerrard to get the f*ck out there remain, and I can't really argue with them.

I know this is all a bit negative, but all told I do think Rafa is still the man to make us kick on. I sincerely hope he acknowledges that the wide areas are still weak, and if funds do become available in summer, I can see two good signings there making the world of difference. One things for sure though, his gamble on Kuyt having a wonderful second season just hasn't come off, and he really needs to get rid and find another goalscorer. A long term injury to Torres, and frankly we're f*cked.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:50 am

Rafa has only got the best out of his players in 1 of his 4 Premiership seasons. 3 failures out of 4 raises big questions about his position.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:58 am

Cool Hand Luke wrote:Rafa has only got the best out of his players in 1 of his 4 Premiership seasons. 3 failures out of 4 raises big questions about his position.

so is the current crop's best, a 3rd place finish?
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:39 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:Rafa has only got the best out of his players in 1 of his 4 Premiership seasons. 3 failures out of 4 raises big questions about his position.

so is the current crop's best, a 3rd place finish?

The current crop should be getting 85+ points.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:50 am

LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:It doesn't matter how many points win the league because we'll be 25 or 30 behind it anyway

At one point we were on course to get about 80-83 pts, several blips cut that down to 68 or so.

I still think 85 points will be enough to win the league.

we'll be more than 25 points behind the leaders, I don't care what we're on corse for.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:53 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:It doesn't matter how many points win the league because we'll be 25 or 30 behind it anyway

Exactly, so this season is a failure.
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Postby bigmick » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:06 am

Anyways, tempting as it is sometimes lets try to not bury the thread in quoting, one liners and abuse. One long standing member has already gone the way of all flesh today so we don't need others.

Anybody in any doubt about the right way to go on, should re-read the topic opener. Whether or not you agree with it, it will have taken the poster a lot of time and thought and it deserves responses which have at least been given a little consideration.
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Postby heimdall » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:16 am

bigmick wrote:Anyways, tempting as it is sometimes lets try to not bury the thread in quoting, one liners and abuse. One long standing member has already gone the way of all flesh today so we don't need others.

Anybody in any doubt about the right way to go on, should re-read the topic opener. Whether or not you agree with it, it will have taken the poster a lot of time and thought and it deserves responses which have at least been given a little consideration.

BigMick, as you can see I have now tried to hand out the peace pipe and I do agree that this topic is far too important for people to start attacking each other.
One observation though is that it is almost always the pro rafa gang who start these petty attacks and when someone calls me a pleb, a c&nt or lacking a sense of humour then I have to descend towards that level to defend myself. I have complained about this stuff before but the mods don't seem to care about rude and abusive language.
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Postby god_bless_john_houlding » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:24 am

Now that the petty and childish games are over, lets get back to the topic, is Mourinho the right man for us? I couldn't bring meself to say yes, but the more and more I look at it, the more and more he seems the right choice. I still want Jol (if Aldo and McMahon are busy :D ) but Mourinho is looking good value for money. But I don't want him as our manager. And again I'll state why. He's the reason everyone dislikes Chelsea, he is to arrogant and smug, nothing like the way this club is about. He'll find any excuse for defeat (just like benitez) rather than hold his hands up and admit he got it wrong or his side were beaten fairly on the day. And finally I just can't stand him but I doubt that's a valid reason.
1) You'll Never Walk Alone
2) pass and move is the Liverpool groove
3) FIRST WILL ALWAYS BE FIRST AND SECOND WILL ALWAYS BE NOTHING.
4) If Torres has scored 60 league goals for Liverpool by the start of the 2011/12 season, I'll say he's better than Owen.
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Postby Bad Bob » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:25 am

A fantastic initial post from JBG.  There's lots of food for thought there and I'm kind of with Scott--my head agrees with most of it but my heart is not yet ready to see Rafa go.  I'd still like to give him one more year to straighten things out.  That said, failing to finish among the CL positions this season will force the axe to fall, I'm afraid.
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Postby laza » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am

Bad Bob wrote:A fantastic initial post from JBG.  There's lots of food for thought there and I'm kind of with Scott--my head agrees with most of it but my heart is not yet ready to see Rafa go.  I'd still like to give him one more year to straighten things out.  That said, failing to finish among the CL positions this season will force the axe to fall, I'm afraid.

I concur with this train of thought, really would like to see Rafa be given his 5 year plan though its looking more untenable every day.

Not real keen on this you either with or against us type situations occur when a regime is on the brink either. Seems like that same situation with Houllier and i was on the side of its time to go Ged.
That was after what seemed an eternity of :censored: poor result and even bigger :censored: poor excuses, Rafa seems to have been a victim of his own success and fans greater expectation in time he has been given .

Though there always some crass for me when you pushing for a new manager. You having to accept defeat and start again and for some whether it be intended or not almost seem to be gloating that they were right even at expense of the club.
I rather be proved wrong a millions times it meant that Liverpool had succeeded


It just seems surreal that it doesnt seem so long ago that people were hoisting up painting of the gaffer and screaming about his class and revolution. Now that there is a call for that whinging disrespectful Maureen to come and be the new saviour...........

While it cant compare to the darkest days for this club, there doesnt seem much light around at the moment
Last edited by laza on Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The_Rock » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:38 am

teamleader1 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:First Lakes says im going senile and now you deaf i must be cause when im at the games home or away i cant hear no one singin anything but Raffa Benitez and im positive its just not one little group by me. :D I mean i see peoples mouth movin in the stands aswell as the kop or am i seeing thing now . Nah i dont think so

So come on Rock run your poll again How many match goin fans want Raffa out i think youll get a different view mate

I go the game and I want Rafa out, ive supported him in the past but after 3 years we are still watching a team of strangers,
Its not working, his rotation system stops all continuity on the pitch, lots of his selections are indefencable, hes taking us nowhere,
ffs there are no more excuses, hes proved beyond any doubt that he cant hack it in the prem,
The biggest indication of this is the fact that Im going the game tommorow not fully expecting to beat a relegation side at Anfield
And sadly Im not alone in this,
Rafa is not the answer, like it or not, its time for a change

Nanny...don't make this a OOT vs non OOT......

And to your question, i believe many match going fans think its time for a change.....(some want it immediate..others want to wait until the End of season)... just check Teamleader1's post.

You want more..go to the RAWK forum....Most of the match going fans are from there and read what they have to say.....

And if i was in liverpool today....and went to see sunderland play...i would chant rafa's name too...as he is still our manager and want him to know i will behind him as long as he is our manager. But i still want him out come end of this season... If mourinho can come up with some settlement with chelsea and he could take charge of us now....i will infact want him to replace rafa ASAP....Hey thats just me.... Mourinho is the complete manager while rafa is just a coach for me....

But of course....all of this will not work if rafa wins the champions league (not just going to the final). :p

Seriously, If he did, i hope he stays until the end of his contract.
Last edited by The_Rock on Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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