Liverpool FC Forum

[Scottbot]

It's a superb post JBG, just about the most comprehensive post i think i've ever read on here. And more importantly for me, it is objective. It would be good if you posted more often mate.

My head agrees with much of what you have said but my heart still says wait and see how things stand come the end of the season. In order to keep his job I suspect that Rafa will need to:

1) Achieve 4th place
2) Make it past Inter in Europe
3) Win the FA Cup or at least make the final
4) Take 4 points or more (something he has failed to do) in the remaining games with Arsenal, Chelsea and the mancs.

As for Rocks list, it's a bit ambiguous for me. For those wanting the manager out, does that mean get rid now? Does it mean get rid at the end of the season no matter what happens for the remainder of this one? Does it mean - Even if we finish 4th, make the semi's in Europe and win the FA Cup get rid at the end of the season?

You can put me in the 'Let's see how the land lies at the end of the season' category.

[Emerald Red]

The debate about whether or not Rafa should go or stay is no rendered a moot point. Rafa Benitez will NOT be here next season, so all non fans of him might as well give up the ghost of putting this so called point across. Fact remains that he is still the manager of this club and we are still in two major cup competitions with a CL position to still play for in the league. I've an idea for a change - why not knock the Rafa bashing on the fucking head for a change and give the man a last gasp support, enough so that he may give us a swan song to remember in May when we could lift the CL again. Wouldn't that be nice?

By the way, great post JBG. I agree with most, but on Rafa's signings, how much was he restricted on landing better quality players?

[Toffeehater]

what about me dude?

btw who said that gerrard and carragher has lost faith in rafa? pls show some proof... and behave like what? what are you on about???

eh....which group u want to be under ? you have to tell me 1st...  Do you think i used my imagination to come up with this list...


as for the 2nd part.......which rock have u been living under ? Have you seen gerrard's and carra's reaction when rafa brought on lucas against westham ?

put me under guus hiddink  , sorry i've lost faith in rafa

[Ciggy]

I firmly believe he'd struggle to get on with the current hierarchy we have in place. I don't think it would appeal to him.

The Yanks got intouch with Mourhino before Klinsmann make of that what you will.
They also met up with Lippi after the Marsellie game.

[Igor Zidane]

OK Still waiting for answers to my questions, I guess you pro Rafa guys can't explain why he plays Kuyt any more than I can 

BTW The reason I mentioned that I've wanted Rafa out for the last year was not to gloat it was meant as a bit of humour because I wasn't included in the original list of pro/anti. Some of you guys really need a sense of humour.

BTW I hardly find it surprising that someone who adores Igor Biscan, a no talent waste of space, also supports Rafa, but I guess you must be nobility since you call me a pleb or do you maybe not know what the word means 

Adores biscan ,     , like i said , your a pleb (if you came from liverpool ,you'd know it's slang for something totally different,to it's definition in the dictionary) Glory hunting thick tw@t.

[Ciggy]

BTW I hardly find it surprising that someone who adores Igor Biscan, a no talent waste of space, also supports Rafa, but I guess you must be nobility since you call me a pleb or do you maybe not know what the word means 

Adores biscan ,     , like i said , your a pleb (if you came from liverpool ,you'd know it's slang for something totally different,to it's definition in the dictionary) Glory hunting thick tw@t.

Liar your an Igor lover   

[Emerald Red]

I firmly believe he'd struggle to get on with the current hierarchy we have in place. I don't think it would appeal to him.

The Yanks got intouch with Mourhino before Klinsmann make of that what you will.
They also met up with Lippi after the Marsellie game.

Yeah, and whatever happened to the discussions about those two rats? It all seemed to fizzle out after we lost to West Ham, and then all of a sudden Rafa was the Devil. What a lot of bollox!

[lakes10]

I firmly believe he'd struggle to get on with the current hierarchy we have in place. I don't think it would appeal to him.

The Yanks got intouch with Mourhino before Klinsmann make of that what you will.
They also met up with Lippi after the Marsellie game.

Mourhino has also be a guest at our club for 3 games.

[LFC2007]

I firmly believe he'd struggle to get on with the current hierarchy we have in place. I don't think it would appeal to him.

The Yanks got intouch with Mourhino before Klinsmann make of that what you will.
They also met up with Lippi after the Marsellie game.

It could well have been meaningless speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It's not really connected with the point I was making anyway. Getting in touch with the owners and actually working with them are two different situations.

[antz]

JBG I am very reluctant to be overly critical of Rafa.  The reason is that I very rarely get to watch games live. I'm over tomorrow.  The thing is I have saw every game this season home and away all on sat tv, (pay a fortune)  A number of years ago I was posting regularily on this site about the failings of Houlier and why he should go.  I don't want to start that now. because I think Rafa has all the abilities and skills required as a manager except that he over analyses his opponents.  He can win the premiership but only if he does two things.  The first is to set aside his pride, hold his hands up and stop the rotation system.  Players should only change when they don't preform or are injured.  If you've better players, play them don't let them sit watching. The fact is if he had Eto, Drogba, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo,Terry, ETC he could rotate like for like but you cant replace a throughbred with a Donkey and expect to win races.  The second thing is ( JBG you touched on this and if anyone here takes the time to go back five years you'll find my posts on this point, under Houlier)  To win the premiership you need two world class full backs and two world class wingers who have pace to burn and put the fear of god into opposing full backs.  I cant help looking at the Man U game. We had them pinned back alright but it was easy for them.  We never once got in behind their fullbacks.  Man U are excellent at pushing average players inside, to their strengths.  This way they all see whats going on and know nothings behind them.  Turn a full back and all hell breaks lose.  Luton done it to us many times in the first game and if they'd had a finisher we'd have been easily beat.  Man City did it to Man U and Ferdinand was suddenly a flapper he was rubbish and could cope fighting with Brown VIDIC and Van Der Sarr and it happened in other games this season.  My point is we have good full backs but they lack pace, average wingers with no pace or real ability.  Rafa sticks to Pennant and Kewell because they will try to turn full backs.  This is and has been a problem at Liverpool for 17 years now even when we had McManaman or Gerrard, we lack the same on the other side.  I remember during the spice boy era the only player Fergie worried about was McManaman because he knew that he could cause bedlam if he got in behind you.

I know this is a long winded reply, sorry but I am sick saying it I hope that Im not saying it 17 years from now.  If you disagree with me then sit down take a piece of paper and a pen and look at the premier league winners over the last 17 years.  Write down who played in each of the four positions mentioned and in terms of wingers how many goals the scored.  It matters very little how good a forward is because someone has to pass them the ball in order to score, its very rare to score against top clubs through the middle get round the back of them and you'll win matches do this consistently and you'll win titles.  Thing is Rafa knows this but he thinks he can do this cheaply, he can't.  One quick point JBG I think that the money spent on maschereno would have been more wisely spent on Gareth Barry who is an exceptional all round player, him and Gerrard would be a very good pairing.  Rafa could then have let Alonso go and spent the taking on quality wide men.  I think he also missed the boat on Gudjonsen, he would had got him cheaply and I think he'd have been excellent with Torres.

Good post Al.

I have been a reader of this forum for years but rarely post as you will see.I read this and felt I had to comment on Big Al's post as it's the best post I have read on this board for a long time. I have been saying the same thing to people for years. Obviously not on the board 

If Rafa addresses these 2 things we will challenge for the league I'm sure.  If he is unable to then it's time somebody had a chance  to bring back the bread and butter.

[NANNY RED]

Do yer know what id like to find out how many of the Get Raffa out brigade actualy go the match cause unless im going deaf thats not what im hearing week in week out

[destro]

Do yer know what id like to find out how many of the Get Raffa out brigade actualy go the match cause unless im going deaf thats not what im hearing week in week out

That will be your age Nanny, its one of the first things to go 

Seriously though, its a good point maybe the "Pro Rafa" brigade drown the chants out with their support for him, and as the recent events and demonstrations of the past few weeks will tell you Liverpool fans certainly make it clear when they are not happy

[The Manhattan Project]

If Rafa leaves, Jose would be the best choice.

If we could afford him.

[Redman in wales]

JBG I am very reluctant to be overly critical of Rafa.  The reason is that I very rarely get to watch games live. I'm over tomorrow.  The thing is I have saw every game this season home and away all on sat tv, (pay a fortune)  A number of years ago I was posting regularily on this site about the failings of Houlier and why he should go.  I don't want to start that now. because I think Rafa has all the abilities and skills required as a manager except that he over analyses his opponents.  He can win the premiership but only if he does two things.  The first is to set aside his pride, hold his hands up and stop the rotation system.  Players should only change when they don't preform or are injured.  If you've better players, play them don't let them sit watching. The fact is if he had Eto, Drogba, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo,Terry, ETC he could rotate like for like but you cant replace a throughbred with a Donkey and expect to win races.  The second thing is ( JBG you touched on this and if anyone here takes the time to go back five years you'll find my posts on this point, under Houlier)  To win the premiership you need two world class full backs and two world class wingers who have pace to burn and put the fear of god into opposing full backs.  I cant help looking at the Man U game. We had them pinned back alright but it was easy for them.  We never once got in behind their fullbacks.  Man U are excellent at pushing average players inside, to their strengths.  This way they all see whats going on and know nothings behind them.  Turn a full back and all hell breaks lose.  Luton done it to us many times in the first game and if they'd had a finisher we'd have been easily beat.  Man City did it to Man U and Ferdinand was suddenly a flapper he was rubbish and could cope fighting with Brown VIDIC and Van Der Sarr and it happened in other games this season.  My point is we have good full backs but they lack pace, average wingers with no pace or real ability.  Rafa sticks to Pennant and Kewell because they will try to turn full backs.  This is and has been a problem at Liverpool for 17 years now even when we had McManaman or Gerrard, we lack the same on the other side.  I remember during the spice boy era the only player Fergie worried about was McManaman because he knew that he could cause bedlam if he got in behind you.

I know this is a long winded reply, sorry but I am sick saying it I hope that Im not saying it 17 years from now.  If you disagree with me then sit down take a piece of paper and a pen and look at the premier league winners over the last 17 years.  Write down who played in each of the four positions mentioned and in terms of wingers how many goals the scored.  It matters very little how good a forward is because someone has to pass them the ball in order to score, its very rare to score against top clubs through the middle get round the back of them and you'll win matches do this consistently and you'll win titles.  Thing is Rafa knows this but he thinks he can do this cheaply, he can't.  One quick point JBG I think that the money spent on maschereno would have been more wisely spent on Gareth Barry who is an exceptional all round player, him and Gerrard would be a very good pairing.  Rafa could then have let Alonso go and spent the taking on quality wide men.  I think he also missed the boat on Gudjonsen, he would had got him cheaply and I think he'd have been excellent with Torres.

Good post Al.

I have been a reader of this forum for years but rarely post as you will see.I read this and felt I had to comment on Big Al's post as it's the best post I have read on this board for a long time. I have been saying the same thing to people for years. Obviously not on the board 

If Rafa addresses these 2 things we will challenge for the league I'm sure.  If he is unable to then it's time somebody had a chance  to bring back the bread and butter.

great post (and also hats off to JBG for a great post and topic)

I suppose the question is WILL he change? People on this board have been saying for ages to drop the rotation system and buy some quality on the wings, but we've yet to see it.

If he will change his beliefs, stop rotation, and buy some quality on the flanks i think most people on here would love to see him still here.... but that's the rub... will he change??

[ruskiy playmaker]

If Rafa leaves, Jose would be the best choice.

If we could afford him.

Hiddink would be the best choice, if Rafa left.  The guy is a pure genius!