Liverpool FC Forum

LFC2007 wrote:

s@int wrote:Nothing unusual  , I suppose there was nothing unusual about Steve Heighway leaving after winning the youth cup either, or our goalkeeping coach leaving.

Nothing unusual about him falling out with the bosses at Valencia,nothing unusual about him falling out with Rick Parry, nothing unusual about him falling out with his American boss's in the summer or again in the Autumn.

Thats exactly my point ..... theres nothing unusual about Rafa falling out with people.   

If you want to address THE POINT rather than trying to take the piss as you've done with Lando, fine.

Until then, my point which was actually about how Mourinho would have handled the situation with our owners, and any future f*cking about that might occur, stands and is valid. If you read my original post again, that will be clear.

I could quite conceivably rattle off a list of those people Mourinho f*cked off, or has had disagreements with, if I had the time or care to.

Mourinho's left two jobs because of disagreements with owners for example, that's more pertinent than Rafa's disagreement with a goalkeeping coach.

Rafa is no exception.

That, however, was not the original point, and I don't have time for silly little f*cking about posts like that.

Mourinho is an abrupt person, and I certainly don't believe he would have tolerated the f*cking about that our owners have exemplified in recent times. Rafa has been very tolerant of our owners, Mourinho appears to me to be the type of character who may have left because of the level of their incompetence, had he been our manager. I don't think the situation as it stands wouldn't appeal to him because of this.

LittleHobo wrote:the pro rafa fans cant answer the kuyt thing.

for me it is one of reasons why ive lost faith in him

any sane man can see that kuyt would barely even get in the sunderland team

big al wrote:JBG I am very reluctant to be overly critical of Rafa.  The reason is that I very rarely get to watch games live. I'm over tomorrow.  The thing is I have saw every game this season home and away all on sat tv, (pay a fortune)  A number of years ago I was posting regularily on this site about the failings of Houlier and why he should go.  I don't want to start that now. because I think Rafa has all the abilities and skills required as a manager except that he over analyses his opponents.  He can win the premiership but only if he does two things.  The first is to set aside his pride, hold his hands up and stop the rotation system.  Players should only change when they don't preform or are injured.  If you've better players, play them don't let them sit watching. The fact is if he had Eto, Drogba, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo,Terry, ETC he could rotate like for like but you cant replace a throughbred with a Donkey and expect to win races.  The second thing is ( JBG you touched on this and if anyone here takes the time to go back five years you'll find my posts on this point, under Houlier)  To win the premiership you need two world class full backs and two world class wingers who have pace to burn and put the fear of god into opposing full backs.  I cant help looking at the Man U game. We had them pinned back alright but it was easy for them.  We never once got in behind their fullbacks.  Man U are excellent at pushing average players inside, to their strengths.  This way they all see whats going on and know nothings behind them.  Turn a full back and all hell breaks lose.  Luton done it to us many times in the first game and if they'd had a finisher we'd have been easily beat.  Man City did it to Man U and Ferdinand was suddenly a flapper he was rubbish and could cope fighting with Brown VIDIC and Van Der Sarr and it happened in other games this season.  My point is we have good full backs but they lack pace, average wingers with no pace or real ability.  Rafa sticks to Pennant and Kewell because they will try to turn full backs.  This is and has been a problem at Liverpool for 17 years now even when we had McManaman or Gerrard, we lack the same on the other side.  I remember during the spice boy era the only player Fergie worried about was McManaman because he knew that he could cause bedlam if he got in behind you.

I know this is a long winded reply, sorry but I am sick saying it I hope that Im not saying it 17 years from now.  If you disagree with me then sit down take a piece of paper and a pen and look at the premier league winners over the last 17 years.  Write down who played in each of the four positions mentioned and in terms of wingers how many goals the scored.  It matters very little how good a forward is because someone has to pass them the ball in order to score, its very rare to score against top clubs through the middle get round the back of them and you'll win matches do this consistently and you'll win titles.  Thing is Rafa knows this but he thinks he can do this cheaply, he can't.  One quick point JBG I think that the money spent on maschereno would have been more wisely spent on Gareth Barry who is an exceptional all round player, him and Gerrard would be a very good pairing.  Rafa could then have let Alonso go and spent the taking on quality wide men.  I think he also missed the boat on Gudjonsen, he would had got him cheaply and I think he'd have been excellent with Torres.

LittleHobo wrote:the pro rafa fans cant answer the kuyt thing.

for me it is one of reasons why ive lost faith in him

any sane man can see that kuyt would barely even get in the sunderland team

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Benitez is stubborn and arrogant which is why he falls out with so many people. It's his way or no way and the problem is his way isn't working.

You mean like Ferguson, Clough, Mourinho???

Something that would have been lauded as a positive is now being used to beat Rafa with. Whats new?

yes like those 3, but the difference with those 3 is they were able to win the league. Benitez isn't and those 3 weren't stubborn enough to change losing ways. Look at Mourinho in the cup last year, they were getting beat after 27 mins brought off the two wingers. Ferguson constantly changes anything that's going wrong. And Clough was the same. Benitez refuses to change, that's my point and it's the inability to change a losing formula which is why we WON'T win the league under him.

Don't you know...rafa thinks he has to perfect formation/tactic that is adaptable to any senario. He doesn't see the need to change it..... 

s@int wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

s@int wrote:Nothing unusual  , I suppose there was nothing unusual about Steve Heighway leaving after winning the youth cup either, or our goalkeeping coach leaving.

Nothing unusual about him falling out with the bosses at Valencia,nothing unusual about him falling out with Rick Parry, nothing unusual about him falling out with his American boss's in the summer or again in the Autumn.

Thats exactly my point ..... theres nothing unusual about Rafa falling out with people.   

If you want to address THE POINT rather than trying to take the piss as you've done with Lando, fine.

Until then, my point which was actually about how Mourinho would have handled the situation with our owners, and any future f*cking about that might occur, stands and is valid. If you read my original post again, that will be clear.

I could quite conceivably rattle off a list of those people Mourinho f*cked off, or has had disagreements with, if I had the time or care to.

Mourinho's left two jobs because of disagreements with owners for example, that's more pertinent than Rafa's disagreement with a goalkeeping coach.

Rafa is no exception.

That, however, was not the original point, and I don't have time for silly little f*cking about posts like that.

Mourinho is an abrupt person, and I certainly don't believe he would have tolerated the f*cking about that our owners have exemplified in recent times. Rafa has been very tolerant of our owners, Mourinho appears to me to be the type of character who may have left because of the level of their incompetence, had he been our manager. I don't think the situation as it stands wouldn't appeal to him because of this.

I also question whether he'd put up with our current owners, and whether our owners would put up with him. If they can't communicate with Rafa effectively, what is there to suggest they'd be able to communicate effectively with one of the most abrupt men in football?

My point was that Mourinho is no more likely to have difficulties with our owners than any other manager. As you now seem to be agreeing with.

I could probably rattle off a list of those who Ferguson's supposedly f*cked off, or had disagreements with.

Every top manager has disagreements, and quite a few at that.

LFC2007 wrote:

s@int wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

s@int wrote:Nothing unusual  , I suppose there was nothing unusual about Steve Heighway leaving after winning the youth cup either, or our goalkeeping coach leaving.

Nothing unusual about him falling out with the bosses at Valencia,nothing unusual about him falling out with Rick Parry, nothing unusual about him falling out with his American boss's in the summer or again in the Autumn.

Thats exactly my point ..... theres nothing unusual about Rafa falling out with people.   

If you want to address THE POINT rather than trying to take the piss as you've done with Lando, fine.

Until then, my point which was actually about how Mourinho would have handled the situation with our owners, and any future f*cking about that might occur, stands and is valid. If you read my original post again, that will be clear.

I could quite conceivably rattle off a list of those people Mourinho f*cked off, or has had disagreements with, if I had the time or care to.

Mourinho's left two jobs because of disagreements with owners for example, that's more pertinent than Rafa's disagreement with a goalkeeping coach.

Rafa is no exception.

That, however, was not the original point, and I don't have time for silly little f*cking about posts like that.

Mourinho is an abrupt person, and I certainly don't believe he would have tolerated the f*cking about that our owners have exemplified in recent times. Rafa has been very tolerant of our owners, Mourinho appears to me to be the type of character who may have left because of the level of their incompetence, had he been our manager. I don't think the situation as it stands wouldn't appeal to him because of this.

I also question whether he'd put up with our current owners, and whether our owners would put up with him. If they can't communicate with Rafa effectively, what is there to suggest they'd be able to communicate effectively with one of the most abrupt men in football?

My point was that Mourinho is no more likely to have difficulties with our owners than any other manager. As you now seem to be agreeing with.

I could probably rattle off a list of those who Ferguson's supposedly f*cked off, or had disagreements with.

Every top manager has disagreements, and quite a few at that.

No, I'm not agreeing with that assessment in that, my view is that Mourinho is more abrupt than most other managers, and certainly Rafa. Disagreements between staff (e.g goalkeeping coaches/Assistants or whomever) occur but I'm referring to those above his head, particularly the owners. In Mourinho's case, I think he'd be the least tolerant to above-his-head f*cking about than most other managers. I'm specifically referring to what I believe would have been his reaction to the f*cking about instigated by our owners, accompanied with the incompetence of Rick Parry.

I don't think he'd have tolerated that (entirely down to my own personal judgement), and I think it wouldn't appeal to him should the job become available in the foreseeable.

Because of Rafa's affinity and connection to the club, I think he is slightly more tolerant of this fecking about, than Mourinho would be if he came in, and if it continued.


That was my point.