JAVIER MASCHERANO - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bermenstein » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:06 am

Spending £17million on Javier Mascherano is the wrong decision!

That is according to Jaimie Kanwar from liverpool-kop.com.

He raises some very pertinent points in his artcile.

Here it is in full from liverpool-kop.com.

Liverpool are in serious need of top quality creative players. Why then is Rafa Benitez pushing hard for 17m to permanently sign Javier Mascherano, a player who offers absolutely nothing going forward?

The proposed purchase of Mascherano has been one of the key causes of Rafael Benitez’s recent problems with the club’s American owners; Benitez wants £17m to buy the Argentinean stopper, whereas Hicks and Gillette allegedly prefer to wait until the loan deal is over in the summer before splashing the cash.

Liverpool fans need to be honest with themselves and ask this question: Does the club urgently *need* Mascherano? If he was to leave, would the club be left with a gaping, unfillable hole in the team?

The answer is clearly NO.

I don’t dispute that Mascherano is an excellent player, but at this moment in time, Liverpool just do not need him. The focus should be on scouring the globe for creative players, not using a huge chunk of potential transfer cash on a central midfielder when that position is already oversubscribed.

With stadium plans hitting the skids and precious little money for transfers, demanding 17m for Mascherano is not only wrong, it is irresponsible and would amount to a scandalous waste of funds.

I would further argue that Benitez made a huge mistake bringing Mascherano to the club. The Spaniard should have thought a little harder about the signing and the long term negative effects it would have. These include:

1. Stunting the development of Momo Sissoko.

2. Creating unhealthy competition in midfield, with 5 players fighting for 2 positions.

3. Unsettling Xabi Alonso to the extent that Liverpool’s best midfielder is possibly considering his position.

In reality, it is not even 5 players fighting for 2 places; Steven Gerrard will always play, so in effect, Benitez has created a situation where there are 4 midfielders fighting for one place.

This is poor management and has caused frustration and recrimination, culminating in Momo Sissoko’s recent outburst, in which he stated he wanted to leave due to ‘unhealthy competition’.

And it IS unhealthy competition. Most if not all top clubs in Europe have 1 or 2 top class central midfielders and another 2 or 3 slightly lower quality back-ups. No club in Europe has THREE top class center mids vying for two first team places. And by center mid, I don’t mean attacking mids like Deco or Iniesta; I mean proper center mids like Pirlo, Fabregas, Viera, Keane, Hargreaves etc.

Liverpool have Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Steven Gerrard – three top class midfielders - all of whom expect to start every game - all vying for two positions. Add onto that Sissoko and Lucas also pushing for the first team, and you have a recipe for frustration and eventual disaster.

Due to Alonso’s injury and Lucas' inexperience, Benitez has not had to deal with the problem of an oversubscribed midfield; for most of the season, it has been a choice of two from Gerrard, Mascherano and Sissoko. The problems will come when Alonso, Gerrard and Mascherano are all fit, raring to go and desperate to start games.

I don’t blame Sissoko at all for wanting to leave. It is impossible to retain match sharpness and get any kind rhythm going when you are unfairly relegated to the role of bit-part player.

Additionally, how exactly is Sissoko supposed to improve his game when he plays only once a month? Fans and pundits complain about his poor passing ability, but this will not change if he is not given the chance to develop.

If Mascherano had not been brought to the club, I sincerely believe that Sissoko would have improved and would now be an integral part of the team. Indeed, it is no coincidence that Momo’s drop in form coincided with Mascherano’s arrival at the club. Similarly, the rise of the Argentinean has dovetailed with the continuing decline of Sissoko's status at the club.

I am not suggesting that Sissoko is a better player than Mascherano; at this moment in time he is not, but this is due to desecrated confidence and lack of match sharpness. However, if Sissoko had not been dumped on the scrapheap and left to rot, I would argue that he would be better than Mascherano is now.

Sissoko showed this frightening potential in his pre-Mascherano Liverpool career. Fans were raving about his performances and everything was positive. Such is the fickleness of fans though that everything has inevitably changed, and Sissoko is not the whipping boy du jour.

£17m is a lot of money; if Benitez is going to lavish that on one player, then he should spend it on the most skillful, creative winger/link man he can get for that price. This type of player is far more important to the Liverpool cause. In fact, I would argue that top class creative players are ESSENTIAL to the club’s future progress.

Liverpool have been buying substandard, cut-price 'creative' players for 17 years now and this needs to stop. Teams that win the league almost always have superb creative players. Liverpool have been suffering with the likes of Vladimir Smicer, El Hadji Diouf and Dirk Kuyt for far too long.

It’s time for a positive change – Liverpool’s overly defensive priorities need updating and flair needs to come into the equation. Is Benitez the right man to oversee this change of philosophy for Liverpool?

Sadly, no.

If he was, then three and a half years into Benitez's reign there would be some evidence of an attacking approach to Liverpool's play. There isn't.

Furthermore, if Benitez was the right man then he wouldn’t be demanding 17m for a superfluous defensive midfielder; he wouldn’t persist with the creatively inept Dirk Kuyt at the expense of superior players like Peter Crouch and he wouldn’t continually leave exciting attack-minded talent like Ryan Babel and Lucas Leiva on the bench.


It certainly does highlight some points regarding our very congested midfield, and if that £17Mill is put to a more attacking option?
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:16 am

Really great idea that, let the best player go, and keep the players that arn't as good. Maybe we should sell Torres and keep Kuyt :D £ 17million is a lot of money but that includes his wages. We could get about £12-15million for Alonso or about £8-10million for Sissoko. Who would you rather see playing for Juventus and who would you rather see with a Liverpool shirt on? 

I would love us to sign a creative striker but if I had to pick a player to leave to pay for him, my first choice would be one of our other strikers.
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Postby NANNY RED » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:29 am

s@int wrote:Mascherano: I want to join Tevez at Manchester United

On loan Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano admits he wants to join his former teammate at Manchester United with a permanent move to Liverpool unlikely to occur as the American owners are baulking over the £17m price tag set by MSI.

Mascherano - A target for United, Juventus and Real Madrid - wants to play alongside countryman Carlos Tevez once again after their adventures at Corinthians and West Ham.

The holding midfielder, rated at £17million, said: "I would like a new adventure in England because as each day passes it is looking more and more unlikely that I could remain at Liverpool.

“It’s simple,” Mascherano said. “With the time that has passed, it will now be more difficult for me to stay here because I need to do something about my future. It is a really difficult situation because I have been talking a lot about how I want to stay here, but it doesn’t depend on me. I have done everything to stay but the owners have to decide if they want to buy.”

Manchester United boss Ferguson has always been an admirer of Mascherano and considered signing him last summer, and it is being rumoured that he will willing to pay the asking price to land him now.

Mascherano added, "I would be happy to play for any of the other big clubs in England if Liverpool do not sign me permanently, but to play alongside Carlitos as well as people like Rooney, Scholes and Ronaldo would be my biggest dream of all."

Source: Diario Olé


I got this off newsnow, obviously faked by those lovely mancs

Bloody hell Saint im gonna have nightmares now tonight after reading that :down:
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Postby Bermenstein » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:51 am

FERGIE RULES OUT JANUARY SIGNINGS

But you never know :angry:  .....Would be horrible if they did land Mascherano though..epecially after the Heinze debacle
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:53 am

Bermenstein wrote:FERGIE RULES OUT JANUARY SIGNINGS

But you never know :angry:  .....Would be horrible if they did land Mascherano though..epecially after the Heinze debacle

Fergie can't sign Mascherano to play for them until the summer, so he wouldn't be a January signing, as he is under contract with Liverpool. He can however sign him up on a pre-contract.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:53 am

Is this right, I've just read somewhere that the 17 million negotiated for Mascha doesnt have to be paid off in one lump sum, its over a five year period ??
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Postby roberto green » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:54 am

it's aload of :censored:, Mascharano went on record as saying if he doesn't get a permanent deal with us he won't play for another English club.

The thought of one of our best players going to the mancs tho does p!ss me off and if that happened there would be murder and would trigger the calls for the Americans to go.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:56 am

Bamaga man wrote:Is this right, I've just read somewhere that the 17 million negotiated for Mascha doesnt have to be paid off in one lump sum, its over a five year period ??

Al I have read Bamaga is the transfer fee is £9million with the rest (£8million) being Mascherano's wages, presumably for 4 or five years.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:58 am

s@int wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Is this right, I've just read somewhere that the 17 million negotiated for Mascha doesnt have to be paid off in one lump sum, its over a five year period ??

Al I have read Bamaga is the transfer fee is £9million with the rest (£8million) being Mascherano's wages, presumably for 4 or five years.

So what, we pay 9 million upfront then pay his wages weekly after that ?
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Postby redtrader74 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:11 am

s@int wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Is this right, I've just read somewhere that the 17 million negotiated for Mascha doesnt have to be paid off in one lump sum, its over a five year period ??

Al I have read Bamaga is the transfer fee is £9million with the rest (£8million) being Mascherano's wages, presumably for 4 or five years.

If that is really the case then it is a bargain.

I hope we keep him, long term his value will only increase, and he will get better, he is only 22 i think. To facilitate any purchases (a fcking top striker please), i'd sell Momo, Kuyt, Carson and Crouch.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:14 am

Will MIC or wahtever there called still be entitled to his economic rights if we buy him, or will we own the player outright, like are we taking him off their hands.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:15 am

Bamaga man wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Is this right, I've just read somewhere that the 17 million negotiated for Mascha doesnt have to be paid off in one lump sum, its over a five year period ??

Al I have read Bamaga is the transfer fee is £9million with the rest (£8million) being Mascherano's wages, presumably for 4 or five years.

So what, we pay 9 million upfront then pay his wages weekly after that ?

I don't know mate, maybe they want it all up front?

Will MIC or wahtever there called still be entitled to his economic rights if we buy him, or will we own the player outright, like are we taking him off their hands.


I can't see Liverpool agreeing to not owning all rights mate. I think they even refused Owen and Gerrard that option?
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Postby maguskwt » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:49 am

s@int wrote:Mascherano: I want to join Tevez at Manchester United

On loan Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano admits he wants to join his former teammate at Manchester United with a permanent move to Liverpool unlikely to occur as the American owners are baulking over the £17m price tag set by MSI.

Mascherano - A target for United, Juventus and Real Madrid - wants to play alongside countryman Carlos Tevez once again after their adventures at Corinthians and West Ham.

The holding midfielder, rated at £17million, said: "I would like a new adventure in England because as each day passes it is looking more and more unlikely that I could remain at Liverpool.

“It’s simple,” Mascherano said. “With the time that has passed, it will now be more difficult for me to stay here because I need to do something about my future. It is a really difficult situation because I have been talking a lot about how I want to stay here, but it doesn’t depend on me. I have done everything to stay but the owners have to decide if they want to buy.”

Manchester United boss Ferguson has always been an admirer of Mascherano and considered signing him last summer, and it is being rumoured that he will willing to pay the asking price to land him now.

Mascherano added, "I would be happy to play for any of the other big clubs in England if Liverpool do not sign me permanently, but to play alongside Carlitos as well as people like Rooney, Scholes and Ronaldo would be my biggest dream of all."

Source: Diario Olé


I got this off newsnow, obviously faked by those lovely mancs

it's a load of BS IMO... can't find the article anyway...
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am

I don't think that we have to worry about Masch going to Man U.  They already have too many midfielders.
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Postby masch17 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:12 am

this situation is a no brainer.

WE MUST SIGN JAVIER!!!

he provides us with stability, composure and class in midfield..letting him go would be a disaster. he is among the top 5 defensive midfielders in the world and can only improve at 23 years of age.

he is quality, his consistency since joining us has been extraordinary.

if he is not signed we must rally to oust the americans, because it will become as clear as daylight that they do not know what is best for lfc.

please please make his deal permanent
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