Liverpool FC Forum

by **seano** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:24 am

No-one bags rotation when were winning European Cups. Is it just our scapegoat for poor form?

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:55 pm

The great thing about having 5 top midfielders is that the rotation system can be used in a POSITIVE sense - the players selected can be the ones most suitable for the particular game. For example Sissoko is the ideal player to have in two completely opposite situations:

1. Against a team who are technically superior to us, and will play us off the park in terms of skill and creativity. Perhaps Barcelona. Not many teams fall into this category though. But a player for away games more than home games.

2. Completely opposite, a game where we're up against a side who KNOW that if they try and outplay us, they'll get thumped, so they'll just get stuck in and get their hands dirty. Games against relegation-threatened teams later in the season, and cup ties against 3rd division teams. Banana skins.

I love all our midfielders - in part because they're all so different and provide different options.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:26 pm

I think Mascheranho proved against Arsenal he is better suited against better technical sides StMichael, because Sissoko will give to many silly free kicks away around the 18 yard box. Against a side who's going to try and kick us off the pitch than Sissoko would be ideal, but I'd still rather see us stick to the same 11 week in week out. I don't see the rest of the top 4 changing their side because they're playing Blackburn for example. Scholes and Carrick would be the central pair for United whether it be Derby at Old Trafford or Blackburn away. So why should we be so different?

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:31 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I don't see the rest of the top 4 changing their side because they're playing Blackburn for example. Scholes and Carrick would be the central pair for United whether it be Derby at Old Trafford or Blackburn away.

last week, united had anderson, tevez, rooney, ronaldo and nani all in the side against boro at home. i'd say at least two of them won't play against arsenal. hargreaves is made for that game tomorrow.

by **Bammo** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:34 pm

Scholes and Carrick would be the central pair for United whether it be Derby at Old Trafford or Blackburn away.

Except that they also play Hargreaves some games, or even Giggs/O'Shea/Fletcher in CM. Other teams do rotate, maybe not as much as us, but the media don't flip out when any of them change their teams around.

Last season both Giggs and Ronaldo played across the midfield and as striker/forwards. O'Shea played LB/CB/LW/CM/FW yet it gets a passing mention. Gerrard gets moved from CM to RM for 10 mins and it's headline news.

We have the strength in depth in CM to play the best players for the opposition without reducing our strength. Certain positions, like Left Wing, need to have stability to get some joy out of as we're weak in that area.

by **thegreedo** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:36 pm

stmichael wrote:I love all our midfielders

Sorry Saint couldn't let you get away with that one!!

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:37 pm

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:49 pm

The reason our rotation gets the attention it does is because it's always unforced. United may play certain players in numerous positions, but it's only because it's forced upon them. I couldn't see Darren Fletcher getting a game if Scholes and Carrick were 100% for every single match. But Benitez will swap and change no matter what, because he's convinced it'll work in the premiership when it clearly doesn't.

I know I do this a lot but going back to our glorious years of the 70s and 80s, you could pick our starting 11 week in week out, with the odd exception of either Jimmy Case or Ian Callaghan out on the right wing towards the end of Cally's fantastic stint at Liverpool. Now I think we're able to pick two players who'll be almost certainly on the team sheet, Reina and Carragher. I would of put Gerrard there, but Benitez on a few occassions has decided to drop our captain, PSV in the group stages of Europe last season springs to mind. So not knowing who 9 of the players are going to be, can't be easy on the players.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:48 am

Stephen Warnock’s head is still spinning after escaping Rafael Benitez’s rotation

James Ducker Times

Given his placid demeanour and disarming smile, it is hard to imagine Stephen Warnock getting worked up about anything. Mention Rafael BenÍtez, though, and he cannot spit his words out quickly enough.

Ten months have passed since Warnock left Liverpool for Blackburn Rovers, but as he prepares to face his former teammates and manager for the first time, at Ewood Park this evening, it is clear that the defender’s frustration and annoyance with the Spaniard has not subsided.

It is not that Warnock regrets joining Blackburn. In fact, he has never been happier and credits the move with helping to salvage a career that he fears may have taken a nosedive had he stayed at Anfield. But lingering not far beneath the surface of this affable character is a level of resentment about how things transpired under BenÍtez at Liverpool that, in an emotional sense at least, he is not ready to put behind him.

“I don’t see this game as being any different because I’ve got a point to prove in every game that Liverpool shouldn’t have sold me,” Warnock said. “It bugs me every day because I feel I was good enough to be there.”

Warnock would have less cause for complaint had he not persevered for so long at Liverpool, and the irony is that it was the man who gave him his chance who also closed the door.

Things had looked promising for Warnock when BenÍtez succeeded Gérard Houllier in June 2004 and immediately included the left back in his plans. But elation gave way to frustration, then despair, as Warnock felt the full force of the Spaniard’s infamous rotation policy. During the course of 2½ seasons, Warnock started 45 matches, but he barely remembers playing more than a few back-to-back and as his confidence and form waned, so did his faith in a system of which he is deeply critical.

“Even if you’d played really well one week, you never thought you would play the next,” Warnock said. “People were being rested in September and October and I just think that’s crazy. You don’t want to be rested at that stage of the season. I thought I needed to play week in, week out to improve myself as a player.

“But it was not just the team, it was the same with the squad as well. The squad used to go up on a Friday afternoon and you wouldn’t even know who was going to be in it. It was comical sometimes. No one would have a clue why certain people were not included but the manager would keep his reasons to himself.”

Warnock is convinced that BenÍtez still does not know what his best team is, but as frustrated as he had grown with the policy, it was the Spaniard’s handling of Warnock’s departure that most aggrieved the defender.

News of Blackburn’s interest, as part of an exchange deal with Lucas Neill, the Australia defender, had turned Warnock’s head in August of last year, but when BenÍtez insisted that he was still part of his plans and would play, the left back opted to stay put. By the next January, Warnock had made only six starts for Liverpool that season. His career, as he saw it, had stalled. “I was so annoyed that he [BenÍtez] had said he’d like me to stay and wasn’t playing me,” Warnock said. “I was stuck in a rut then until January, but luckily Blackburn kept their interest.”

A £1.5 million move followed and Warnock has not looked back. Although Benni McCarthy and David Bentley have stolen the headlines, Warnock has been one of Mark Hughes’s most consistent performers and, as Liverpool visit today, they do so a point behind Blackburn in the Barclays Premier League table.

“If I’d left Liverpool at this stage of my career now, having played a year in the reserves or something, I would probably have been lucky to even get a team in the Championship,” he said. “I suppose you could say it has gone better than I could have envisaged at Blackburn, but I still feel that if I had been given the chance at Liverpool then I could have done the same.”

Doesn't sound as if Warnock was a lover of rotation!

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:33 am

Doesn't sound as if Warnock was a lover of rotation!

Coming from a player who was part of the rotational chaos, we can definately say it is "comical". Warnock wouldnt be the only player thinking that either I reckon.

I hate to say it but rotation will be Rafa's downfall, it seems the players cant even get their heads around it. And I dont blame him for moving on, he's playing regular football now and would improve himself into form, not that he ever got the chance here.

He was decent enough, probably not to hold down a place but then again like he said he could never find his groove in the side as he was in and out all the time.

When Rafa leaves and eventually Carra or Gerrard or someone else brings out a biography, I bet they'll slate his rotation policy.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:42 am

Bamaga man wrote:When Rafa leaves and eventually Carra or Gerrard or someone else brings out a biography, I bet they'll slate his rotation policy.

If we haven't won the league by the time Rafa goes, no doubt they will, if we have won the league a few times however, it will be the best thing Rafa ever did.

I must admit I would like to see the same team for a few games while we are short of 3 of our best players.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:57 am

s@int wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:When Rafa leaves and eventually Carra or Gerrard or someone else brings out a biography, I bet they'll slate his rotation policy.

If we haven't won the league by the time Rafa goes, no doubt they will, if we have won the league a few times however, it will be the best thing Rafa ever did.

I must admit I would like to see the same team for a few games while we are short of 3 of our best players.

Oh yeah, forgot your another 'Pro .... :glare:

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
Doesn't sound as if Warnock was a lover of rotation!

Coming from a player who was part of the rotational chaos, we can definately say it is "comical". Warnock wouldnt be the only player thinking that either I reckon.

I hate to say it but rotation will be Rafa's downfall, it seems the players cant even get their heads around it. And I dont blame him for moving on, he's playing regular football now and would improve himself into form, not that he ever got the chance here.

He was decent enough, probably not to hold down a place but then again like he said he could never find his groove in the side as he was in and out all the time.

When Rafa leaves and eventually Carra or Gerrard or someone else brings out a biography, I bet they'll slate his rotation policy.

Well, I'll certainly put more stock in the criticism if Gerrard and especially Carra slate it down the road. I understand Warnock's frustration but the truth is he wasn't good enough and that's why he barely got a game in, ironically, one of our weaker positions.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:59 pm

s@int wrote:Stephen Warnock’s head is still spinning after escaping Rafael Benitez’s rotation

James Ducker Times

Given his placid demeanour and disarming smile, it is hard to imagine Stephen Warnock getting worked up about anything. Mention Rafael BenÍtez, though, and he cannot spit his words out quickly enough.

Ten months have passed since Warnock left Liverpool for Blackburn Rovers, but as he prepares to face his former teammates and manager for the first time, at Ewood Park this evening, it is clear that the defender’s frustration and annoyance with the Spaniard has not subsided.

It is not that Warnock regrets joining Blackburn. In fact, he has never been happier and credits the move with helping to salvage a career that he fears may have taken a nosedive had he stayed at Anfield. But lingering not far beneath the surface of this affable character is a level of resentment about how things transpired under BenÍtez at Liverpool that, in an emotional sense at least, he is not ready to put behind him.

“I don’t see this game as being any different because I’ve got a point to prove in every game that Liverpool shouldn’t have sold me,” Warnock said. “It bugs me every day because I feel I was good enough to be there.”

Warnock would have less cause for complaint had he not persevered for so long at Liverpool, and the irony is that it was the man who gave him his chance who also closed the door.

Things had looked promising for Warnock when BenÍtez succeeded Gérard Houllier in June 2004 and immediately included the left back in his plans. But elation gave way to frustration, then despair, as Warnock felt the full force of the Spaniard’s infamous rotation policy. During the course of 2½ seasons, Warnock started 45 matches, but he barely remembers playing more than a few back-to-back and as his confidence and form waned, so did his faith in a system of which he is deeply critical.

“Even if you’d played really well one week, you never thought you would play the next,” Warnock said. “People were being rested in September and October and I just think that’s crazy. You don’t want to be rested at that stage of the season. I thought I needed to play week in, week out to improve myself as a player.

“But it was not just the team, it was the same with the squad as well. The squad used to go up on a Friday afternoon and you wouldn’t even know who was going to be in it. It was comical sometimes. No one would have a clue why certain people were not included but the manager would keep his reasons to himself.”

Warnock is convinced that BenÍtez still does not know what his best team is, but as frustrated as he had grown with the policy, it was the Spaniard’s handling of Warnock’s departure that most aggrieved the defender.

News of Blackburn’s interest, as part of an exchange deal with Lucas Neill, the Australia defender, had turned Warnock’s head in August of last year, but when BenÍtez insisted that he was still part of his plans and would play, the left back opted to stay put. By the next January, Warnock had made only six starts for Liverpool that season. His career, as he saw it, had stalled. “I was so annoyed that he [BenÍtez] had said he’d like me to stay and wasn’t playing me,” Warnock said. “I was stuck in a rut then until January, but luckily Blackburn kept their interest.”

A £1.5 million move followed and Warnock has not looked back. Although Benni McCarthy and David Bentley have stolen the headlines, Warnock has been one of Mark Hughes’s most consistent performers and, as Liverpool visit today, they do so a point behind Blackburn in the Barclays Premier League table.

“If I’d left Liverpool at this stage of my career now, having played a year in the reserves or something, I would probably have been lucky to even get a team in the Championship,” he said. “I suppose you could say it has gone better than I could have envisaged at Blackburn, but I still feel that if I had been given the chance at Liverpool then I could have done the same.”

Doesn't sound as if Warnock was a lover of rotation!

Well that's a shock - a player disgruntled at being sold!!!

Stop the press - THIS is the headline of the DECADE!!!!!

Seriously - I suppose if Diouf or Cisse come out with a p*ss and a whine aswell, we'll see Rafa lynched in Stanley Park by noon! :laugh:

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:45 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Doesn't sound as if Warnock was a lover of rotation!

Coming from a player who was part of the rotational chaos, we can definately say it is "comical". Warnock wouldnt be the only player thinking that either I reckon.

I hate to say it but rotation will be Rafa's downfall, it seems the players cant even get their heads around it. And I dont blame him for moving on, he's playing regular football now and would improve himself into form, not that he ever got the chance here.

He was decent enough, probably not to hold down a place but then again like he said he could never find his groove in the side as he was in and out all the time.

When Rafa leaves and eventually Carra or Gerrard or someone else brings out a biography, I bet they'll slate his rotation policy.

Well, I'll certainly put more stock in the criticism if Gerrard and especially Carra slate it down the road. I understand Warnock's frustration but the truth is he wasn't good enough and that's why he barely got a game in, ironically, one of our weaker positions.

I'll have to disagree with you bob, I thought at the time Warnock was our best left back and didn't get the credit he deserved from Benitez or the majority of fans. He was in and out of the side, so you can't expect him to be the next Alec Lyndsay instantly. When he was given a run in the side, he showed he was better than both Riise and Traore (hardly difficult I know) and since his move to Ewood Park, he's showing signs of what we could of had. He wasn't affraid of getting stuck in and I think we're missing that in our side right now, a bit of passion rather than lackluster forigners who couldn't give a toss about the club.

Liverpool FC Forum

The rotation thread - All "R" talk in here please!

Who is online