Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:31 am

Well I only saw the second half live, and I've got to say that based on that, I think one or two people are going a bit over the top with their criticism. We never really got anything going in the section of the game that I watched, but we were down to ten men for the majority of it and to be perfectly honest, they never got anything moving either.

Now it seems to be fairly unanimous that we were even worse in the first half, but it is Away in the Champions League after all, and against a fairly decent outfit at that. Added to that, it's with a bunch of guys playing together for the first time in a couple of weeks (and that's not a dig about rotation I'm talking about the International break) so it probably wasn't wise to expect too much.

As for Gerrard being rubbish on the night, I'm amazed at some posters who claim to know their football jumping on the bandwagon basd on this match. Surely it's not just the press in New Zealand who have been reporting that the bloke has a broken toe? He was pretty ordinary when he played for England by all accounts as well so we'll have to stick it on his CV, "Steven Gerrard, one of the best midfielders in the World but not that great TBH when he's got a broken foot". One thing he did prove was that Rafa was actually correct in his case not to play him on Saturday morning, particularly after Englands manager disgracefully started him in both International matches. All that said were it not for the intervention of Queresma (who is clearly a very talented player based on last nights showing) then Gerrard, with the one moment of true quality displayed by anyone on the pitch in the second half would have slipped Kuyt in for the winner. No I'm not too worried that our captain has suddently become sh!te.

No, I had my problems with the way we approached the game at Portsmouth but we aren't the first team over the last few seasons who have found the trip to Portugal a difficult one. Their constant diving, complaining and crying disrupts the whole flow of the game and is designed to stop the opposition gaining any momentum. That it worked on us makes no difference, I am absolutely convinced that we will give them something to properly cry about when they visit Anfield, and by then all charges against underperformers will be forgotten.

The next game is the one to think about now. Time to get some momentum going again with a win which I'm certain we will get. WE've just come through two tricky fixtures, along with about a dozen changes to the starting eleven so a period of relative stability and a couple of wins is just what the doctor ordered.

by **Sabre** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:50 am

I'm waiting to go to home to see the whole match as I couldn't watch it yesterday, but it's interesting the broken toe point, because IMHO is very true. Gerrard, has played not much in the start of the season and probably still has to heat the engines.

I say it's curious, because it's a good reason to explain a bad game, but it didn't seem to be a good reason in the weekend in order to rest him. People were slagging Rafa for not putting him but maybe (and this is also speculation) the right thing to do was to give him 30 minutes because he comes from an injury. The coach always handles more info than we do, and does things right or wrong, but for a reason.

Anyhow, no matter if it's the broken toe or not, a player, any player, will have some poor games that do not undermine their reputation won along the years. And Gerrard is the best player we have IMO.

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:58 am

Just on the question of Masherano. Given the sophisticated, state of the art monitoring methods, with dieticians, body mass indexes and the like which are employed these days, how comes he played? Didn't somebody post up that he only arrived back from Australia on Friday?

Maybe they've got some method invented by a clever bloke which gets rid of the old jet-lag, but I've done that flight a few times and I wouldn't have thought three or four days is enough to recover for a finely tuned athlete. I've generally found that the best solution to the thing is to get absolutely destroyed on the first evening of your arrival in the new country and then sleep it off until midday the next day. Roberts your Fathers brother as they say, but surely they didn't just give Masha a bottle of whisky and tell him to get it sorted. Mind you, watching how he played maybe they did

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:06 am

bigmick wrote:Well I only saw the second half live,

Count yourself lucky then young Michael.

by **The_Rock** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:07 am

Well 1 subpar performance in don't know how many games and the knives are out for mascherano

give me a break.

I thought Mash did his basic job pretty well (ie...protecting the back four).

As for Quaresma..... This guy can singlehandedly win us games. If Torres, Gerrard and Quaresma are in the same line-up we have 3 potential matchwinners.

We should sign players of this calibre.

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:09 am

Sabre wrote:I say it's curious, because it's a good reason to explain a bad game, but it didn't seem to be a good reason in the weekend in order to rest him.

I actually think resting him on Saturday was fair enough Sabes to be honest, and last night proved it. Had he only played one game for England (and even that would have been slightly taking the p!ss with a broken toe) then maybe, but once that div McClaren had played him in both games the writing was on the wall. In his case, I'd send him home now and tell him I don't even want to hear about him going for a jog for a week. There's every possibility that he's further damaged it by fecking around on International duty and he's too important to risk against the likes of Birmingham.

The other point of course about saturdays team selection is that once he'd rested Gerrard, then barring injury Rafa had to play Torres IMHO. That's what I said from the outset and there's no point going back over it all again now.

One last point would be to comment on Rafa's so called "embarassing moaning about the fixture list" recently. I don't hink it's embarassing at all, he's right to stick up for the club and he hope he continues to do it. I tell you this right now, if Gerrard played for Man Utd or Chelsea there is absolutely no fecking way he would have played both games, and would probably have played neither. If Rafa plays the Mister nice guy, the football establishment will take the p!ss out of him and the club and I think he's doing the right thing. If it was me, I'd be screaming from the rooftops right now about the fact that from a statistical point of view, you have roughly 50% chance of getting a penalty against Liverpool at the moment if you play them. It's absolutely fecking outrageous and I'd be putting as much pressure on the authorities, the referees association and anybody else who'd listen to make sure it doesn't keep happening. If in the process, we get away with a dodgy tackle or two then all well and good.

by **Sean** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:20 am

Rafa should have pulled Gerrard out of the international games. For years fergie has been pulling Giggs out of internationals due to nose bleeds etc.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:22 am

Would have taken a result before the game as Porto are a very difficult team to play against but f#cking hell i have never seen a team cheat and dive around collectively as they did. Is it any wonder Chelsea behave like they do after Mourinho managed them?

Pennant i think will learn from his mistake as quite a few times already this season he has got himself booked and continued to get close to a sending off. It ended up not costing us but im sure Rafa will have a word.

Regarding the performance it was just like the Portsmouth game but with different players. All players will have off days but unfortunately our big performers in Torres and Gerrard both looked f#cked and were unable to get into the game.

Ive got to admit i was disappointed in Babel. I had hoped his superb goal against Derby would have given him the confidence to start attacking players. Im' sure theres plenty more to come from him but I'm not sure it'll be as a winger. I see his long term future as a striker.

All in all a sh#te performance but we still got a point against the toughest opponent we will face in this group stage so we should be happy with that.

by **tubby** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:37 am

Yeah I think Babel looked quite :censored:

at times yesterday. Rafa should have taken Pennant off at half time and brought on Benayoun instead.

Still though its a decent result and its the hardest away game out of the way.

Now that we got a good look at that Quaresma he looks like Babel but just better on the ball in terms of dribbling. Dives :censored:

loads though.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:43 am

Mick, i think Mascherano only played as Alonso & Sissoko both couldnt through injury, otherwise he probably wouldnt of been considered.
Rafa could of tried Lucas but it would of been a risk in our most difficult group game.

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:48 am

Ace Ventura wrote:Mick, i think Mascherano only played as Alonso & Sissoko both couldnt through injury, otherwise he probably wouldnt of been considered.
Rafa could of tried Lucas but it would of been a risk in our most difficult group game.

Fair enough Ben, never knew that mate. And you're right, he couldn't really have stuck Lucas in at this stage of his Liverpool career. If Masherano really was played purely becasue the other two were injured and despite the fact he must have been a bit jetlagged, it would explain his somewhat below par performance.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:52 am

Decent result, poor performance, but I am glad to get this one out of the way TBH. I was fuming during the game at the cheating moaning diving Porto players, but I don't think we helped ourselves by not staying on our feet more when tackling. Mascherano who I openly admit I think is better than Alonso, in particular seems to have a problem with going to ground when tackling.

I thought Kuyt was our MOM, just for his goal and the hard work he put in. I thought he could have done better with the chance Gerrard created in the second half. If that had been Fowler he would certainly have stepped across blocking Queresma's run and interception.

I thought Babel showed a few good touches and a couple of instances of good control and burst of pace. He's not the finished article by any means but I think the quality is there and we just need to be a little patient with him this season.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:58 am

Question guys where are we in the group and did Marseille and Besiktas play last night? Or are they playing tonight?

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:59 am

Ciggy wrote:Question guys where are we in the group and did Marseille and Besiktas play last night? Or are they playing tonight?

marseille won 2-0. cisse scored the second.

they're still a poor side though. we should tw@t them at home in two weeks.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:01 pm

stmichael wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Question guys where are we in the group and did Marseille and Besiktas play last night? Or are they playing tonight?

marseille won 2-0. cisse scored the second.

they're still a poor side though. we should tw@t them at home in two weeks.

Cheers ST

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