Liverpool FC Forum

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:33 pm

Torres was very ineffectual against Porto, hence him being dropped to the bench IMO.

It's obvious that the strikers need to shine to keep their place in the first team this season, and just because big money has been spent, it doesn't entitle Torres to keep his place. Kuyt wasn't great against Porto, but did score, so no arguments from me that he started against Brum.

Instead of being angry at Rafa for not starting Torres, I'm glad that he has the balls to react to a poor performance by giving one of his other players a punt. Everyone's been among the goals this season, so all of them have a good argument for saying they should be in the team.

And it works both ways, don't forget. On the flipside, Voronin and Kuyt were poor and Torres gave a good account of himself in the half hour he got, so I expect Crouch and Torres to start the next Prem game.

Six games played, no losses. That's the key stat right now. We have to work on turning those draws into wins, but this is a team that's still bedding in and I'm really not worried. A title win this season would be fantastic, but 3rd to 1st is a big leap, and I think too many people here are expecting Torres to take us there on his own. I personally still think we're a season and a couple of signings away from where we want to be, but I certainly think we're in it for the long haul this term.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:45 pm

Ciggy wrote:The new owners must be saying to themselves why have we forked out 26 million pound for a player that has been sat on the bench the last two league games.

I know I would and I would be having a word with Benitez about it.

As soon as the H&G demand that Torres starts every game, the sooner Rafa will resign from the club. It’s frustrating not seeing Torres start, but leaving him on the bench against relegation battlers away from home is hardly the crime of the century.

The team selection yesterday was correct IMO, compared to the week before when the team selection was incorrect on the away journey to Fratton Park. The problem lies with both the manager and the players, not solely the manager.

Torres will be played more often than not, but fans need to realise that Torres will not play in every game. I accept that if Torres is well enough to play then he should play.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:01 pm

s@int wrote:Last season our start was a disaster, pretty much everyone agrees that. After 6 games last season we had only 10 points, this season after our Title winning start we have 12 points. Not much of an improvement really is it. We need to kick on if we are not going to be left watching Arsenal the Mancs and Chelsea battling it out again for the title, and us left fighting for a CL place.

The complexion of this season’s league table is different to last season’s league table, but I understand and share your concern. Though I feel it’s rather premature to be creating mass hysteria with past statistics.

Arsenal are only four points ahead of us so far and there is still plenty of time for things to change. I cannot for the life of me understand such negative comments. I can relate to comments which highlight frustration and disappointment, but not comments which portray the poster as suicidal.

I also believe sections of the fan base are expecting far too much this season, most people on this forum (at least) expected improvement and not a league win this season.

Then after four matches, the mood changes to ‘we’re going to win the league’. Then after three poor performances, the mood changes to ‘we’ll be lucky to capture third place’.

I’m waiting in anticipation for post match comments after Reading and Wigan should the team show the form and finishing that created such euphoria in the first place.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:25 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
s@int wrote:Last season our start was a disaster, pretty much everyone agrees that. After 6 games last season we had only 10 points, this season after our Title winning start we have 12 points. Not much of an improvement really is it. We need to kick on if we are not going to be left watching Arsenal the Mancs and Chelsea battling it out again for the title, and us left fighting for a CL place.

The complexion of this season’s league table is different to last season’s league table, but I understand and share your concern. Though I feel it’s rather premature to be creating mass hysteria with past statistics.

Arsenal are only four points ahead of us so far and there is still plenty of time for things to change. I cannot for the life of me understand such negative comments. I can relate to comments which highlight frustration and disappointment, but not comments which portray the poster as suicidal.

I also believe sections of the fan base are expecting far too much this season, most people on this forum (at least) expected improvement and not a league win this season.

Then after four matches, the mood changes to ‘we’re going to win the league’. Then after three poor performances, the mood changes to ‘we’ll be lucky to capture third place’.

I’m waiting in anticipation for post match comments after Reading and Wigan should the team show the form and finishing that created such euphoria in the first place.

If you can keep your head when everyone else is losing theirs, its just possible you don't have a fkn clue whats going on.

I am creating mass hysteria by stating facts? What sort of fkn drugs are you on? Have I said Rafa must go.... no. Have I said we can't win the league..... no.

Where the fk have I said I am suicidal? I am upset at our recent performances same as most NORMAL Liverpool fans. If you arn't upset maybe its because you arn't a NORMAL Liverpool fan and live in some never never fkn land.

If you can't make a post without talking out of your backside, maybe you shouldn't bother.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:41 pm

I’m hardly going to lose my head with just six games into the new season, two poor league games and suddenly Liverpool is the team of last season. Two points is not the end of the world, four points is not the end of the world and who is to say; the game against Wigan will produce a similar outcome?

I certainly know and understand what is happening and I am able to keep my head screwed on because I a) do not expect us to win the league b) have seen improvement and c) its September and the lads are only four points behind Arsenal.

You’re stating facts which do not need to be stated, last season, was last season, this season is this season. The comments on this forum in the last twenty four hours are shocking in contrast to those of two/three weeks ago.

I don’t see how remaining calm and not losing my marbles is talking out of my back passage, there is little to worry about as far as I am concerned. If the run extends into five, six or seven games, then I’ll worry, but I have every confidence in the team.

There’s constructive criticism and then there is the Kurt Cobain syndrome.

by **Avi Cohen** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:47 pm

Just think that Rafa worries what the opposition are doing far too much. Liverpool V Birmingham at Anfield should have been a no brainer. Put out your best team, grab three points, make the team happy, the fans drunk and confidence high. Because of the chopping and changing, the team has no flow or consistency and we don't have the confidence going into games when we should have.
The way we played against Birmingham was a result of the changes we made for Porto which in turn was a result of the changes we made at Portsmouth (that and the international break). It's a butterfly effect.

The argument these days is that a title-challenging side should have no problems if an inferior side puts 10 men behind the ball. Title hopefuls should find a way to break them down. This is true, but there's a flipside to that. Not just for a title team, but for the sport...

It does nothing for football. A football team should want to play football regardless of the opposition and teams like Derby, Birmingham, Bolton, Blackburn etc are ruining the game with their tactics. Sure, they get a point when usually they'd get none but it's killing the game and apart from the big 4, I have no interest in watching any other team play because of the level of football. They're dragging the game down.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:54 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:I’m hardly going to lose my head with just six games into the new season, two poor league games and suddenly Liverpool is the team of last season. Two points is not the end of the world, four points is not the end of the world and who is to say; the game against Wigan will produce a similar outcome?

I certainly know and understand what is happening and I am able to keep my head screwed on because I a) do not expect us to win the league b) have seen improvement and c) its September and the lads are only four points behind Arsenal.

You’re stating facts which do not need to be stated, last season, was last season, this season is this season. The comments on this forum in the last twenty four hours are shocking in contrast to those of two/three weeks ago.

I don’t see how remaining calm and not losing my marbles is talking out of my back passage, there is little to worry about as far as I am concerned. If the run extends into five, six or seven games, then I’ll worry, but I have every confidence in the team.

There’s constructive criticism and then there is the Kurt Cobain syndrome.

Who the fk are you to say what facts need and don't need to be stated?

I think its a valid point that our start has been little better than last seasons at this point.

I am trying very hard not to get involved in flame wars but t0ssers like you make it very difficult. I couldn't care less what your opinions on football are, but personal attacks saying I am suicidal for no apparent reason and that I am creating mass hysteria by stating a few facts is just not on.

THERES CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND THEN THERES HIDING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND, OR UP YOUR BACKSIDE IN YOUR CASE.

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:01 pm

s@int wrote:Who the fk are you to say what facts need and don't need to be stated?

I think its a valid point that our start has been little better than last seasons at this point.

I am trying very hard not to get involved in flame wars but t0ssers like you make it very difficult.

THERES CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND THEN THERES HIDING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND, OR UP YOUR BACKSIDE IN YOUR CASE.

Last season is last season; would it not be better to concentrate on this season? If it’s been a little better, then why is there such negativity? I understand people are furious, I wasn’t best pleased with drawing against Birmingham who are relegation battlers, but some perspective is needed. This hasn’t been shown by everyone.

I’m not hiding my head in the sand, there is no major problem which certain posters seem to be advocating, the team is sitting third, four points behind the league leaders, that’s progress IMO and who is to say, that gap won’t be cut short next week/the week after? What’s to say that the team can’t push on and overtake Arsenal?

The amount of negativity and pessimism so early on in the season is not nice to see/hear or read.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:10 pm

Bamaga man wrote:I've just watched that dross, and I'm f.ucking livid there is no way I'm being told to calm down that was f.ucking appalling.

That team performance was s.hit. Riise and Kuyt annoyed the f.uck out of me today, fu.cking useless the pair of them. Gerrard was c.rap too Mascha was okay and Pennant as seems lately looks our liveliest player. Babel again didnt impose himself but like I said before I'm willing to give him the time to bed in, Voronin was non-exsitant. I tell ya that performance lacked tempo, inventivenes and all sorts.

I think we've seen both ends of the f.ucking spectrum, class displays against Chelsea and Derby right back to last seasons inept showings against Portsmouth, Porto and now f.ucking Birmingham.

Liverpool title challengers ? Not on your f.cukning nelly, if we're going to play like that we may aswell fall back on the CL again.

Apart from leaving a 26 million pound striker out of the line-up the team selection didnt bother me, the performance was shocking. But again it wasnt made any easier by the manager, who for whatever f.ucking reason left Torres out .... WHY? Are we resting him for Reading in midweek. I'm sorry Sabre but if you can come on here and try and justify that you can polietly f.uck off, same with Lando, if you call that man a f.ucking genius again you can do one to.

Yeah knee jerk, in the heat of the moment, but its still f.ucking true.
Rant over

Don't be such a prat.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Effes wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:I tell you one thing, the game against Derby raised the expectations way way too high.

Maybe for you it did; most people realise they are by far the worst team in the league.

Didn't Wenger rest Van Persie against Derby today - now that's sensible tinkering.

Well it would be, wouldn't it?

But then - Arsenal, Sh*tski and the scum don't rest their top players, do they...?

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:18 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
s@int wrote:Who the fk are you to say what facts need and don't need to be stated?

I think its a valid point that our start has been little better than last seasons at this point.

I am trying very hard not to get involved in flame wars but t0ssers like you make it very difficult.

THERES CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND THEN THERES HIDING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND, OR UP YOUR BACKSIDE IN YOUR CASE.

Last season is last season; would it not be better to concentrate on this season? If it’s been a little better, then why is there such negativity? I understand people are furious, I wasn’t best pleased with drawing against Birmingham who are relegation battlers, but some perspective is needed. This hasn’t been shown by everyone.

I’m not hiding my head in the sand, there is no major problem which certain posters seem to be advocating, the team is sitting third, four points behind the league leaders, that’s progress IMO and who is to say, that gap won’t be cut short next week/the week after? What’s to say that the team can’t push on and overtake Arsenal?

The amount of negativity and pessimism so early on in the season is not nice to see/hear or read.

I couldnt care less whether you think that last season is last season. I think it is a reasonable point, not some mass hysteria starting statement.

We have dropped points againt poor sides what do you expect people to do smile and say no worries, or show their disappointment like NORMAL people.

If perhaps you read this thread rather than just studying your back orifice maybe you would have read that I still think we can win the league. Unlike you, I seem to have a little faith. I also said I don't blame Rafa.

So the negativity seems to eminate from you rather than me. Want me to call the Samaritans for you or are you just going to keep taking the pills?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:24 pm

You know what?

This board is full of clueless f*cking idiots. :no

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:26 pm

i think people DO need to calm down a bit and realise that, although Rafa has obviously dropped a bollock on his selection yesterday, we are in a good position that cannot be compared to last season.

We're against Wigan away next and i expect to see Rafa start with his strongest side.

*as for the carling cup, i'd put out the reserves and wouldn't bother

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:28 pm

s@int wrote:I couldnt care less whether you think that last season is last season. I think it is a reasonable point.

If perhaps you read this thread rather than just studying your back orifice maybe you would have read that I still think we can win the league. Unlike you, I seem to have a little faith. I also said I don't blame Rafa.

So the negativity seems to eminate from you rather than me.

Your statistic states that the team has made progress, so why is there all the need for such negativity?

Cast your mind back to three weeks ago, this forum was full of ice cream cones and bright sunshine weather. A few bad results and the confidence is shattered, the self belief is gone and people have had their wind taken out of their sails.

Why do you have little faith? I think some people (this may include you or it may not) got overexcited by the very good start to the season and as a consequence are expecting too much. Would finishing second, six points behind the league winners be such a bad finish? Its steady progress after all is it not?

I’ve not said you have blamed Rafa, and how can there be negativity emerging from me, when I’m rather upbeat and still believe the title race is wide open?

This post will be my last contribution as you don’t seem capable of controlling yourself on the Internet, but it will be very interesting to see what the reaction is if/when we beat Reading and Wigan.

I get the impression this season will be filled with mixed emotions along the way in both extremes and not much else. Little or no sense of balance or perspective.

by **AB's Red Army** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:29 pm

7_Kewell wrote:i think people DO need to calm down a bit and realise that, although Rafa has obviously dropped a bollock on his selection yesterday, we are in a good position that cannot be compared to last season.

We're against Wigan away next and i expect to see Rafa start with his strongest side.

*as for the carling cup, i'd put out the reserves and wouldn't bother

You know mate, what people fail to realize is that we had a damn good line up yesterday. It's not like we're life dependent on Torres.

The fact that people seem to be ignoring is that our players have not performed. Yes Benitez made a mistake by not starting Torres, but apart from him the team that we had was damn good. Certainly more than enough to beat a poor Birmingham side.

Of course the manager is responsible for many things, but the players are also as well. And nobody has said feck all in regard to their 3rd poor display in a row.

Our players need a kick up the :censored:

as well. Teams aren't going to roll over like Derby did.

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Time to take stock. - Calm down everyone ffs.

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