Liverpool FC Forum

by **Wilhelmsson** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:10 pm

It was a satisfying scoreline, result and a satisfying performance, to boot. I never felt that Liverpool weren’t going to pick up anything other than the three points and it’s pleasing to have such a new-found confidence in the team, which was partially absent (on my part) last season.

Jermaine Pennant was solid today and has been since the start of this season, he has continued where he left off last season, which is pleasing to see. I am still not entirely convinced by Pennant, but I feel I could end up eating humble pie with regards to him come the end of the season. He seems to be beating his man more often and enforcing set plays.

Babel looks like a livewire, the awareness he shows when events are changing and evolving around him is pleasing to see, his short and precise passes and ability to run in and between the opposition defence and is nice to watch. His movement and play in the second and final goal was sublime IMO.

As for the two goals, they were well set up goals, with great build up play in both goals and both goals were well taken. I couldn’t believe Sissoko scored the first goal, I always imagined Sissoko would score the odd tap in or score a deflection, but his goals today was a belter of a shot, the slight spin on the ball took it away and past Sunderland keeper, Craig Gordon.

Torres and Voronin looked sharp today and played some accomplished football up top, with a better array of shots, better positioning and perhaps a touch more precision the scoreline as someone has suggested earlier could have doubled. At this moment in time, finishing doesn’t seem to be a problem; I hope it doesn’t become a problem later on in the season.

Sunderland deserve credit, it was tough match and Sunderland made the team work for the win, I felt Stokes and Gordon were Sunderland’s better players, hopefully they’ll take some positives from the match and look to get another win under their belts next weekend. Roll on Toulouse and Derby County.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:18 pm

4 changes to the first team, and an away win. That's the difference from last year. We'd have dropped points in this fixture 12 months ago.

We're still not quite seeing the goals to match our dominance in games, but things are starting to gel very nicely throughout the team. The most encouraging thing is that we didn't have our strongest 11 out today and we still utterly bossed Sunderland. I can see them tripping teams up this season.

Obviously the injuries to Hyypia and Carragher are a worry, but Agger and Arbeloa aren't a shabby pairing, and we've got players like Sissoko and Gerrard in the squad that could drop back mid-game and do a job if another injury strikes.

I am seriously loving this season so far. It's about time we had some sustained early season form to get behind in the league.

by **shimoon23** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:21 pm

anyone got a video-link to the goals? i´m at work and wasn´t able to watch the match :sniffle

pleased for sissoko to get his first liverpool-goal!

by **lakes10** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:26 pm

lol going by some of the posts on here you would think we had lost.

by **red37** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:32 pm

woof woof ! wrote:BUT if anything that creativity seems to have slowly seeped away these last two seasons. If anything nowadays Alonso seems to be nothing more than a decent midfielder who is capable of occasionally delivering something special, unfortunately those moments of delivering something special are becoming rarer and rarer. Like i said in an earlier post , perhaps he needs protection to allow him to display his creative abilities , but surely a player that needs a minder to allow him to play to his full potential has to be considered as a luxury ?

Or he needs deploying further up the pitch as a playmaker. Strikes me with Alonso, that much of his intuitivity has become stifled by how far deep he sits. For Spain he is regarded as a deep lying playmaker - thats Spain. Maybe he might fare better with Mascherano as his cover allowing Xabi the freedom of the attacking third where he is able to influence the attack in a better and more fluid/impulsive and instinctive way. Lay offs, threaded passes, dinks over the last man...or cross field, inch perfect balls (a la our first goal today) - from inside the oppositions half. This is Alonso in his element.

Ive noticed that when he dwells, or hesitates - or is pressed (which is par for the course in the League) while in possession. He isn't as effective. Alonso, to me appears to be best suited farther up the park. Where he is asked to work (by the manager) the lad is taking on two roles. This leads to criticism of his overall efficacy when he isn't directly influencing the game. The point i alluded to originally.

The issue here is, that we have a Central midfield packed full of quality and variety. But when you look closer, and individually assess the parts of the sum on merit. Gerrard remains the one true versatile option within it, capable of being deployed left, right, centre, deep or as the fulcrum of an attacking diamond. The other three (not counting Leiva yet) have specific areas within which they excel. There are 4 recognised/regularly utilised CM's. Only two of which (imo) are able to operate in an effective attacking sense.

When those two i.e Gerrard AND Alonso play....one of them can be partly nullified through the responsibility of covering the others back. But, what do you do if you are Rafa? One of the very best Defensive midfielders in world football is on the Bench. One of the best attack-minded midfielders is on the field and rightly demands possession of the ball, which 9 times out of ten IS the means to an end product. If not through sheer example alone...

The other one....well the other is being asked to be jack of all trades and is gradually becoming master of none. There is the slack i was asking for to be considered regarding that situation. I fully take on board the response you gave Woof, because it is a pertinant one. No disputing that. This is why we are here to speculate and spout bollox, and the gaffer is there to mould those permutations into an efficient unit. Trouble is, he is perhaps TOO spoilt for choice.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:33 pm

lakes10 wrote:lol going by some of the posts on here you would think we had lost.

I know. I just hope some people remember how poor we were this time last year. It's been a huge step forward in the 3 league games so far.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:59 pm

lakes10 wrote:lol going by some of the posts on here you would think we had lost.

Aw just f'uck off will yer .

We're all happy with the win , that doesn't stop us from discussing the performance of individual players .In the meantime you just get your party hat out and celebrate 'cause you've got f'uck all else to contribute.

by **Sabre** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:09 pm

Red37 a player who suffers more when he's on possesion does not get any better when he's upper in the pitch because you are more pressed there and there are opposition men. For me he's more comfortable deeper, because he will never have the abilities that Gerrard has to be comfortable upper, no dribbling, and no good running with the ball.

Not the best game of Alonso, he didn't reach to be bad neither. It seems a natural thing for a fan of a big club to exagerate the mistakes of the people who later on are forgiven. Sissoko didn't know to pass and was utter shíte when he had a bad patch yesteryear, and today he does the work of two midfielders and he even scores a goal and many are praising him. Ah, well. I agree though Woof when he says that comments like "next sucessor of Gerrard" and other exagerations made no good to ALonso.

So let everybody express their concerns whatever they like. Myself, I've learnt to see that there are ugly games in a league in which ugly work is done and even Zinedine Zidane would look ugly, and I won't give much importance to it, other than it has an average or a poor game in a player. Especially when we win 0-2, 2 victories and 1 draw in the pocket, each of which with Alonso in the pitch.

If Mascha keeps the team winning, and the people is happy with him, then the people is right and the people is who pay the bills: let Mascherano play. I'll be happy as long as we keep winning as a team.

P.S. My greatest fear this season, the start of the season, has turned out to be a good success. I'm chuffed for that. If it wasn't for Styles, it would have been perfect.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:18 pm

Sabre wrote:Red37 a player who suffers more when he's on possesion does not get any better when he's upper in the pitch because you are more pressed there and there are opposition men. For me he's more comfortable deeper, because he will never have the abilities that Gerrard has to be comfortable upper, no dribbling, and no good running with the ball.

Not the best game of Alonso, he didn't reach to be bad neither. It seems a natural thing for a fan of a big club to exagerate the mistakes of the people who later on are forgiven. Sissoko didn't know to pass and was utter shíte when he had a bad patch yesteryear, and today he does the work of two midfielders and he even scores a goal and many are praising him. Ah, well. I agree though Woof when he says that comments like "next sucessor of Gerrard" and other exagerations made no good to ALonso.

So let everybody express their concerns whatever they like. Myself, I've learnt to see that there are ugly games in a league in which ugly work is done and even Zinedine Zidane would look ugly, and I won't give much importance to it, other than it has an average or a poor game in a player. Especially when we win 0-2, 2 victories and 1 draw in the pocket, each of which with Alonso in the pitch.

If Mascha keeps the team winning, and the people is happy with him, then the people is right and the people is who pay the bills: let Mascherano play. I'll be happy as long as we keep winning as a team.

P.S. My greatest fear this season, the start of the season, has turned out to be a good success. I'm chuffed for that. If it wasn't for Styles, it would have been perfect.

Sabre , to be clear, I'm not suggesting we get rid of Alonso justsuggesting that in Gerrads absence the Alonso / Sissoko partnership does Alonso no favours , he was virtually invisible for most of this game.

He is certainly not playing up to the standard we know he's capable of . Should also mention that in many recent games after receiving a ball in a reasonable amount of space he's getting caught in possesion time and time again, almost as if the game is moving to fast for him .

by **The Grudge** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:20 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
lakes10 wrote:lol going by some of the posts on here you would think we had lost.

Aw just f'uck off will yer .

We're all happy with the win , that doesn't stop us from discussing the performance of individual players .In the meantime you just get your party hat out and celebrate 'cause you've got f'uck all else to contribute.

Relax ya bad dog!!
Lakes has always been an idiot...same sh.it different day!I agree with you about Alonso BTW..id give him a few more games and after that he needs dropped unless he contributes a lot more.
Maybe he feels he is a well established first team player?Last season he was played almost every game while suffering a dip in form,a dip in form that lasted the entire season in my eyes.There is no doubt of Alonsos ability.But if he is not showing it on the pitch he should simply be dropped.

Sissoko played well today,even if he did not score id be happy with the rest of his game,he looked like he had a point to prove.My biggest worry about Sissoko is his lack of consistancy though.Being honest when a player like Mascherano,a player of that quality is sitting on the bench (sometimes not even on the bench) and Alonso is making up numbers its not justified.

Today i feel highlighted Alonsos reliance on Gerrard,whether Gerrad is in the middle or on the right Alonso will always play the simple ball to him and offer little else!

Why we have Mascherano who can offer so much more sitting on the bench is beyond me?

This is not a stab at Alonso but simply a fan that wants the best for LFC!

by **The Grudge** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:25 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Sabre wrote:Red37 a player who suffers more when he's on possesion does not get any better when he's upper in the pitch because you are more pressed there and there are opposition men. For me he's more comfortable deeper, because he will never have the abilities that Gerrard has to be comfortable upper, no dribbling, and no good running with the ball.

Not the best game of Alonso, he didn't reach to be bad neither. It seems a natural thing for a fan of a big club to exagerate the mistakes of the people who later on are forgiven. Sissoko didn't know to pass and was utter shíte when he had a bad patch yesteryear, and today he does the work of two midfielders and he even scores a goal and many are praising him. Ah, well. I agree though Woof when he says that comments like "next sucessor of Gerrard" and other exagerations made no good to ALonso.

So let everybody express their concerns whatever they like. Myself, I've learnt to see that there are ugly games in a league in which ugly work is done and even Zinedine Zidane would look ugly, and I won't give much importance to it, other than it has an average or a poor game in a player. Especially when we win 0-2, 2 victories and 1 draw in the pocket, each of which with Alonso in the pitch.

If Mascha keeps the team winning, and the people is happy with him, then the people is right and the people is who pay the bills: let Mascherano play. I'll be happy as long as we keep winning as a team.

P.S. My greatest fear this season, the start of the season, has turned out to be a good success. I'm chuffed for that. If it wasn't for Styles, it would have been perfect.

Sabre , to be clear, I'm not suggesting we get rid of Alonso justsuggesting that in Gerrads absence the Alonso / Sissoko partnership does Alonso no favours , he was virtually invisible for most of this game.

He is certainly not playing up to the standard we know he's capable of . Should also mention that in many recent games after receiving a ball in a reasonable amount of space he's getting caught in possesion time and time again, almost as if the game is moving to fast for him .

A Spaniard having blind faith in another maybe..wanting him to do well?

I can understand that......

BUT a lack of effort and passion on the pitch is not good enough for LFC and Alonso needs dropped soon...id give him 3 more games!Mascherano is wasted and waiting!If Masch gets on Alonso will have a very hard job getting back on !

I just get the feeling sometimes hes Raffas illegitimate son and can do no wrong in his daddys eyes!

by **red37** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:27 pm

How many assists does Alonso contribute? They are not all from inside his own half. Maybe i secretly hold this kind of player in the same regard as Jan Molby, who could control the game from centre circle as good as anyone. Unfairly, thats perhaps what i expect from Xabi. But im certainly not going to suggest he must play farther up the park if thats an area he would be isolated in even more...i dont subscribe to that theory. Some of his many key influences on games have come from that area. In any case, the issue is being highlighted only in the abscence of the captain. Who offers all the above attributes and more.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:31 pm

I think most of us hold Alonso in high regard , but that regard is being sorely tested . In Gerrads absence I thought it would be a perfect opportunity for Alonso to take the midfield spotlight and shine again , but all he did was virtually disappear.

by **The Grudge** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:42 pm

woof woof ! wrote:I think most of us hold Alonso in high regard , but that regard is being sorely tested . In Gerrads absence I thought it would be a perfect opportunity for Alonso to take the midfield spotlight and shine again , but all he did was virtually disappear.

Of course we all hold Alonso in high regard,he has done a lot for LFC!

Saying that players should only be on the pitch by merit.A romantic approach by the manager that robs a highly talented player chewing at the bit to get on in favour of someone he has history with is wrong!

Maybe hes just holding Mascherano back..like a bloodhound smelling the fox?
I dunno i just cant think of any reason that Mascherano is not in the 1st team...Raffa did describe him as a 'monster' of a player.....

Mmmmmmn......Time to let the monster go Raaaaaaaaaaaar

by **red37** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:49 pm

3 points is 3 points...The way in which they are accumulated is secondary here.

We are on the right track despite the work that needs doing along the way in order to maintain the correct balance. Whole lot better than the start made last year anyway....so far.

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