Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:21 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:Plenty of reports inside the club have come out about Rafa being a particularly cold man. I respect that and I definately believe It can work... but that doesn't mean you have excellent man management skills.

I personally believe he is one of the best man-managers around. Although we are not privy to what goes on behind the scenes, the players have massive respect for him and the direction in which he is taking the club. That was one of the main points emphasised by Gerrard and Carra when talking to Hicks and Gillett about the future just after they bought the club. He may not appear affable, but he is a professional and you must maintain boundaries - like in any professional job. Rednose is hardly affable, you could call his interaction with people "cold".

by **Stu.Murph** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:32 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:Plenty of reports inside the club have come out about Rafa being a particularly cold man. I respect that and I definately believe It can work... but that doesn't mean you have excellent man management skills.

I personally believe he is one of the best man-managers around. Although we are not privy to what goes on behind the scenes, the players have massive respect for him and the direction in which he is taking the club. That was one of the main points emphasised by Gerrard and Carra when talking to Hicks and Gillett about the future just after they bought the club. He may not appear affable, but he is a professional and you must maintain boundaries - like in any professional job. Rednose is hardly affable, you could call his interaction with people "cold".

There is a difference in being a good man manager and maintaining a level of professionalism and distance.

A massive distance. Respect is earnt... and Gerrard respects Benitez I'm sure. Who wouldn't? But I would gaurentee, he has equal if not more respect for Houllier who was not a better tactician or coach.

I don't dislike Benitez man management style, I would probably do it that way myself, I just question weather he can find the right players to respond to that style and deliver us a league title.

by **redtrader74** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:36 pm

I'm not the most intelligent of people in general life

The first bit of factual comment you have managed, well done, go get yourself a gold star.

Quote stu murph . 'The best teams always win the league. The best teams however, do not always win the champions league. So yet again, you show your stupidity with your pathetic comments'

As you admitted to being thick, i can't expect you to get it first time, I TOLD YOU I WAS USING YOUR FLAWED LOGIC.

Quote stu murph. 'Using big words'

I wasn't aware i used any, in the future and for your sake i will limit my use of words with more than 2 syllables, as they make it difficult for you to understand my very clear points.

You are boring son, you may even have a point now and again, but its well hidden under all the abuse, ever had a debate without swearing? probably not, as you have, for once clearly, said you have a limited intelligence and vocabulary.

You can have the last word little man, i don't wish to ruin the thread further.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:39 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
s@int wrote:We had a much better balanced team the season before last, even without the benefit of a specialised R.winger. Last season we never seemed to get the balance right for me, mainly due to our left side problems and our forwards spending too much time playing too deep. It also didn't help that our best players never seemed to reach their level last season.

I still think we need a creative second striker even more than another striker. Kuyt and Crouch may not be the best strikers around, but even if we got Eto'o or Shearer at his peak they wouldn't be scoring 25 a season with the chances we create. Obviously the return of a fit Kewell and the purchase of Mancini or whoever would help, but a Tevez a Rooney or a Kaka would make a real difference. Maybe Torres can fill the role, but it is the one I would put at the top of our list.

Fair enough, but don't you think the sqaud as a whole was better this year? The season before Kewell was fit, fit this year and the balance would have been there?

The squad was probably better last season(include a fit Kewell) but whether due to the poor start and lack of confidence or whatever, we never seemed to go forward with belief. Considering we had gone on such a great run at the end of the previous season we should have been taking the game to teams not playing with two midfielders who need a map once they stray out of their own half, and strikers who think the penalty box is a no go zone.

CB, winger, creative second striker, striker. Buy quality and we can win the league, we could probably get away with just the two strikers, or even just the creative second striker, but that would mean Gerrard having to spend most of his time on the wing , and Kuyt learning to play as a striker rather than marathon man.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:42 pm

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:50 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:

You smiling at me :angry:

by **Sabre** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:58 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:Again in other words...

Reina
Carson

Finnan
Arbeloa
Riise
Aurelio
Carragher
Woodgate
Hyypia
Agger

Pennant
Luis Garcia
Kewell
Alonso
Gerrard
Mascherano
Sissoko

Tevez
Anelka
Ashton
Bellamy

As you can see, the squads pretty much the same with minor adjustments in the area's I feel we need it most.

I can see a major surgery operation in the upfront there

I have never seen to replace all the strikers in a major team in one season in any team I can remember. We need to improve what we already have, not throwing everything but (surprisingly) Bellamy and rebuild from almost zero.

Meaning, I don't argue your opinion about Anelka Tevez or Ashton. I only remember Anelka a decade ago, back in Madrid, he was very young, and he had the quality, but also he was prone to dissapear in the pitch. Now he must be a veteran striker, and if you say he's good enough, then I won't argue that. Tevez seems good for what I can read and a couple of things I've seen in highlights, and I trust your opinion about Ashton, although I don't know who he is.

But I can't understand the drops you make. I think Tevez and Anelka and Ashton if you like might join, but without losing our two main strikers at the moment, there's no need for that. You might argue that they aren't world class strikers, but you can't argue they've been useful this season.

For instance, I'm with you when you rate Gerrard a lot, but then you should also admit how many times Crouch touched a ball that later on Gerrad converted in a goal. Second chances that Crouch has provided to the team have been countless, and for that only he can be useful through out a season. Not to mention he has scored a decent amount of goals too. He doesn't deserve to be dropped under any circunstances. Maybe not playing that much I agree, but never be dropped.

Instead, you keep Bellamy, when there are lots of players like him or better. He's not a great finisher, he is not a good header, he's pacy but there are other with more pace, and he has a decent abillity but there are others more skilled. The positional strenght that Crouch provides and the strenght, power and workrate Kuyt provides though are not easily found in other top league players.

So bring Tevez and Anelka if you think one of them is going to be the prolific striker many are wishing, but don't drop the two players that are less easily replaceable in their roles.

I think you have a good eye for footballers Stu, but I also think that once you decide a player is not of your liking, you exagerate the campaing against them.

I'm only disagreeing in the 25% of your squad, because when it comes to goal, defence and midfield, I think you're spot on. I like Woodgate too, and I liked him in Spain. He's quality as Cannavaro aswell, although he was unlucky with injuries

by **redtrader74** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:58 pm

s@int wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
s@int wrote:We had a much better balanced team the season before last, even without the benefit of a specialised R.winger. Last season we never seemed to get the balance right for me, mainly due to our left side problems and our forwards spending too much time playing too deep. It also didn't help that our best players never seemed to reach their level last season.

I still think we need a creative second striker even more than another striker. Kuyt and Crouch may not be the best strikers around, but even if we got Eto'o or Shearer at his peak they wouldn't be scoring 25 a season with the chances we create. Obviously the return of a fit Kewell and the purchase of Mancini or whoever would help, but a Tevez a Rooney or a Kaka would make a real difference. Maybe Torres can fill the role, but it is the one I would put at the top of our list.

Fair enough, but don't you think the sqaud as a whole was better this year? The season before Kewell was fit, fit this year and the balance would have been there?

The squad was probably better last season(include a fit Kewell) but whether due to the poor start and lack of confidence or whatever, we never seemed to go forward with belief. Considering we had gone on such a great run at the end of the previous season we should have been taking the game to teams not playing with two midfielders who need a map once they stray out of their own half, and strikers who think the penalty box is a no go zone.

CB, winger, creative second striker, striker. Buy quality and we can win the league, we could probably get away with just the two strikers, or even just the creative second striker, but that would mean Gerrard having to spend most of his time on the wing , and Kuyt learning to play as a striker rather than marathon man.

I'd like qaulity players in the postions you mentioned, but at the prices being quoted i doubt our budget would stretch that far. Thats why i believe the defence is our strongest department, and reqiures the least work, and therefore a CB would be at the bottom of the list for me.

IMO the minimum requirement of top level player is a creative type of striker of the Tevez/ Torres ilk, and a winger Mancini/ Malouda type, but for this to work as you said, Kuyt must defend/attack further up the field, too much dropping back i believe is costing him sharpness infront of goal, so often he has had half chances and looked heavy legged. A fit Kewell, i wish, and with Aurelio, Riise as back up, and we could have a real go at the title.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:02 am

Stu.Murph wrote:There is a difference in being a good man manager and maintaining a level of professionalism and distance.

A massive distance. Respect is earnt... and Gerrard respects Benitez I'm sure. Who wouldn't? But I would gaurentee, he has equal if not more respect for Houllier who was not a better tactician or coach.

I don't dislike Benitez man management style, I would probably do it that way myself, I just question weather he can find the right players to respond to that style and deliver us a league title.

You referred to his man management skills and questioned whether they're good enough. I would define man management as having the ability to get the best out of your players and conducting yourself in a way that helps achive this best. If you look at Benitez's first season, he displayed all his man management skills to a tee. Given the constraints on the squad, he got the best out of players with limited ability e.g. Traore, Biscan, Baros. I fail to see any other manager in the world who could have won the UCL with such a depleted squad - he maximised it in times of despair when players were suspended. Team spirit is rarely if ever questioned, and all the players have a massive respect for his methods. Players will respect managers regardless, like Gerrard did with Houllier but Gerrard also recognises that Benitez is a step ahead in terms of his ability. They are avidly behind Rafa's ambitions and the methods he uses to succeed, so much so that they will publicly endorse him regularly.

There is respect for the man himself - like there was with Houllier - then there is a new level of admiration/understanding between the key players for Rafa's ability that was not IMO so strong under Houllier. Basically I think they recognise that Rafa is one of the best managers around, and that Rafa is a step ahead in his ability.

by **paisleyred** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:07 am

Limited ability? Biscan? Traore(bombscare)? :kungfu:

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:11 am

Sabre wrote:Ashton if you like might join,

Dean Ashton will not be joining Liverpool in the near future cause he's not good enough.

If Rafa played our forwards as forwards and not having them playing in midfield most of the time, we probably wouldnt need any new forwards.

I worry that if we do buy a world class striker say Eto (in my dreams) even he would struggle to get 15 goals a season.

Someone said the other day if Cisse goes to Bolton he will score more than any of our forwards will next season.

You have to ask yourself why it wouldnt be a suprise if this did happen, and if we can see the problem why cant Rafa, we can have all the possesion in the world passing it around the back 4 but if they arnt doing anything with it whats the point?

I think we where dire last season, we where boring to watch and very predictable.

I hope to god next season wont be the same the shackles need to come off ecspecially away from home otherwise we can kiss the league good bye.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:18 am

Ciggy wrote:
Sabre wrote:Ashton if you like might join,

Dean Ashton will not be joining Liverpool in the near future cause he's not good enough.

If Rafa played our forwards as forwards and not having them playing in midfield most of the time, we probably wouldnt need any new forwards.

I worry that if we do buy a world class striker say Eto (in my dreams) even he would struggle to get 15 goals a season.

Someone said the other day if Cisse goes to Bolton he will score more than any of our forwards will next season.

You have to ask yourself why it wouldnt be a suprise if this did happen, and if we can see the problem why cant Rafa, we can have all the possesion in the world passing it around the back 4 but if they arnt doing anything with it whats the point?

I think we where dire last season, we where boring to watch and very predictable.

I hope to god next season wont be the same the shackles need to come off ecspecially away from home otherwise we can kiss the league good bye.

100% agree Ciggy

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:33 am

Stu while I agree that Anelka is a good player (I was shocked when we didn't sign him after his loan), he has done nothing special at Bolton 11 goals in 35 games.(Kuyt 12 goals 27 games)

As for Woodgate he still has injury problems and can still only do light training , so he would have been a big gamble, even if he would have come (Middlesbrough is his home town club)

by **whylongball?** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:49 am

Ciggy wrote:

Dean Ashton will not be joining Liverpool in the near future cause he's not good enough.

spot on! who's this guy? :no

If Rafa played our forwards as forwards and not having them playing in midfield most of the time, we probably wouldnt need any new forwards.

Fully agree! this is exactly what i fear as well..

I worry that if we do buy a world class striker say Eto (in my dreams) even he would struggle to get 15 goals a season.

Probably the case if not lesser given the much lower amount of chances he would receive here

by **whylongball?** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:23 am

Stu.Murph wrote:Again in other words...

Reina
Carson

Finnan
Arbeloa
Riise
Aurelio
Carragher
Woodgate
Hyypia
Agger

Pennant
Luis Garcia
Kewell
Alonso
Gerrard
Mascherano
Sissoko

Tevez
Anelka
Ashton
Bellamy

As you can see, the squads pretty much the same with minor adjustments in the area's I feel we need it most.

The only certain improvement is Tevez...Anelka wouldn't necessarily be better than Kuyt and Ashton would be worse than Crouch
Woodgate you never know will probably be on operation table before soon and in Agger we have good CB.
Against most of the top teams if not all, we didnt concede much*, its the goals that was the problem so what i see most needed is flair and creativity not the defence

So I'd save money from those irrelevant transfers and buy 2 good wingers and class striker to link up(tevez).

* The goals conceded i remember were mostly from free kicks (Milan in final, Man U corner) error from other position (Chelsea in semi Aberloa not Agger)

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