Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:11 pm

Rio Ferdinand, positionally average, as much courage as Carra/ Terry have in their little finger, Physically excellent, good on the ball. He is out of position loads, but his pace gets him out of trouble. Not as good as you think, at his peak right now, Agger has time to develop into allround top class cb.

by **Stu.Murph** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:14 pm

redtrader74 wrote:Rio Ferdinand, positionally average, as much courage as Carra/ Terry have in their little finger, Physically excellent, good on the ball. He is out of position loads, but his pace gets him out of trouble. Not as good as you think, at his peak right now, Agger has time to develop into allround top class cb.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:16 pm

The problem is Bob, that very good Centre Backs dont become available every year, at the moment there are a couple that we could probably get, Chivu who can also play left back for £8 million (if we can get in before Juventus) and Gabi Milito who would cost about the same (again if we can get in before Juventus)

We seem to be struggling to get the wingers or strikers we want, why not get the CB sorted while we have the chance.

TBH I wish we showed a bit more persistance when we go for player rather than switching from player to player (if the rumours are true). I realise price has a part to play but if we want a player, make sure they know that they are our first choice not just one on a list of prospective signings. We seem a bit too vague when it comes to who we want, and maybe losing players because of it. Neill while hardly a major loss was one such "loss" as was Boumsong under Houllier.

Player power has so much influence today that if we make sure the player wants to come to us and no one else we could perhaps get a few bargains. United did it with York and it appears Cisse is trying to do it with Marseilles.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:17 pm

redtrader74 wrote:Rio Ferdinand, positionally average, as much courage as Carra/ Terry have in their little finger, Physically excellent, good on the ball. He is out of position loads, but his pace gets him out of trouble. Not as good as you think, at his peak right now, Agger has time to develop into allround top class cb.

by **grayghost** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:18 pm

Rio is a gob s***e :censored:

on the international stage. the guy thinks he is a big time rapper he is a idoit and for me he is a symbol for what is wrong with the english gane at the moment to much god dam money Pennant is the same hopfully the Liverpool way will sort that out.

ALL BLING BLING give me a break.

by **Stu.Murph** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:19 pm

s@int wrote:The problem is Bob, that very good Centre Backs dont become available every year, at the moment there are a couple that we could probably get, Chivu who can also play left back for £8 million (if we can get in before Juventus) and Gabi Milito who would cost about the same (again if we can get in before Juventus)

We seem to be struggling to get the wingers or strikers we want, why not get the CB sorted while we have the chance.

TBH I wish we showed a bit more persistance when we go for player rather than switching from player to player (if the rumours are true). I realise price has a part to play but if we want a player, make sure they know that they are our first choice not just one on a list of prospective signings. We seem a bit too vague when it comes to who we want, and maybe losing players because of it. Neill while hardly a major loss was one such "loss" as was Boumsong under Houllier.

Player power has so much influence today that if we make sure the player wants to come to us and no one else we could perhaps get a few bargains. United did it with York and it appears Cisse is trying to do it with Marseilles.

The problem is we missed out Woodgate who's again, one of the best in Europe and it looks like there was no attempt made to sign him.

by **Stu.Murph** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:20 pm

grayghost wrote:Rio is a gob s***e on the international stage. the guy thinks he is a big time rapper he is a idoit and for me he is a symbol for what is wrong with the english gane at the moment to much god dam money Pennant is the same hopfully the Liverpool way will sort that out.

ALL BLING BLING give me a break.

Sheer comedy.

by **grayghost** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:22 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
s@int wrote:The problem is Bob, that very good Centre Backs dont become available every year, at the moment there are a couple that we could probably get, Chivu who can also play left back for £8 million (if we can get in before Juventus) and Gabi Milito who would cost about the same (again if we can get in before Juventus)

We seem to be struggling to get the wingers or strikers we want, why not get the CB sorted while we have the chance.

TBH I wish we showed a bit more persistance when we go for player rather than switching from player to player (if the rumours are true). I realise price has a part to play but if we want a player, make sure they know that they are our first choice not just one on a list of prospective signings. We seem a bit too vague when it comes to who we want, and maybe losing players because of it. Neill while hardly a major loss was one such "loss" as was Boumsong under Houllier.

Player power has so much influence today that if we make sure the player wants to come to us and no one else we could perhaps get a few bargains. United did it with York and it appears Cisse is trying to do it with Marseilles.

The problem is we missed out Woodgate who's again, one of the best in Europe and it looks like there was no attempt made to sign him.

Woodgate is a good player but is injury prone more so than Owen would have been a decent signing because if he did get injured you could just bring Agger back in.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:23 pm

To be honest, I can see where some of Stu's concerns over Agger come from. Personally I think he is a quality young player but I also accept he isn't world class and there is a clear gulf in quality between he and Carra which would blatantly become obvious if Carra were ever out of the team for a run of games. While Agger is good at everything in a defensive sense, he is equally not exceptional at anything either.

Take Carra, his sheer determination and his tackling are his stand-out qualities. Take Hyypia in his prime, his aerial dominance and positioning were exceptional. I expect Agger to improve and in fact his improvement even in the course of one season was very impressive, but whether he will ever be one of the real top centre halves around, I also have my doubts. Our defence does get a hell of a lot of protection from the rest of the team the way Benitez sets us up and I think it's valid to say our actual back five would look a little more shaky if they were left as exposed as say, Man United's defence is with the way they throw midfielders forward.

In the last few seasons people turned on Hyypia because his pace was lacking. Personally I don't think Agger is a hell of a lot quicker. Nevertheless Hyypia was getting on and we had to replace him eventually. But we have the same problem in that if we play a more expansive game defending high up the pitch, we are very vulnerable to the counter due to a lack of pace at the back. We saw this in the goal Chelsea scored in the first leg of the CL semi. We're also weaker aerially without Hyypia as neither Carra nor Agger are naturally aerially dominant. Although Carra tries to fill this role, it's not natural for him. Agger really needs to improve aerially.

Basically though, the defence as a unit is solid enough at the moment and it's not a major concern of mine, compared to our attacking deficiencies. I honestly can't see Arbeloa being up to playing centre back, he looks an out-and-out full back to me. Paletta would be of major concern to me and that makes keeping Hyypia for one more year crucial. If we can bring in another centre half then we should, but not at the expense of the attacking players we need.

by **grayghost** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:31 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
grayghost wrote:Rio is a gob s***e on the international stage. the guy thinks he is a big time rapper he is a idoit and for me he is a symbol for what is wrong with the english gane at the moment to much god dam money Pennant is the same hopfully the Liverpool way will sort that out.

ALL BLING BLING give me a break.

Sheer comedy.

how sad.

by **stmichael** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:32 pm

Right here's a question for you. Considering we were linked with both Agger and Vidic at the same time, who do you think got the better deal? I rate Vidic by the way.

I suppose you could say Vidic is the finished article whereas Agger is unreal potential. For such potential Agger is a very established young player and on top of that he is much more comfortable on the ball.

Better tackler on the ground ? - Draw.

Better positioning? - Vidic.

Better in the air? - Vidic.

Better with the ball? - Agger.

Better goalscorer? - Vidic (really gets up well for headers and is a constant threat from setpieces).

Better overall? - Vidic.

Agger has more potential than any player I have ever seen at Liverpool but he is not there yet. Can I also point out that comprehension does not seem to be a strong point on this board. It is a bit sad people can not make informed unbiased opinions on players as well I think.

The question is "Who's the best player?" It isn't who would you rather have, it isn't "who doesn't play for Man United?", it isn't "who would have been more suitable for us?" and it isn't "who do you think has played more games?". Feel free to comment on all of the above but first try and answer the question.

by **grayghost** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:40 pm

Why is ther so much debate on Agger don't get me wrong every one has diffrent opinons but i don't think Aggers position in the team needs be adressed there are outher players who abilty and postion in the team are a lot less certain

Dirk
Crouch
Pennat
Sissoko
Thease are the players i want decsions made on i don't think any of them make the grade.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:42 pm

stmichael wrote:Right here's a question for you. Considering we were linked with both Agger and Vidic at the same time, who do you think got the better deal? I rate Vidic by the way.

I suppose you could say Vidic is the finished article whereas Agger is unreal potential. For such potential Agger is a very established young player and on top of that he is much more comfortable on the ball.

Better tackler on the ground ? - Draw.

Better positioning? - Vidic.

Better in the air? - Vidic.

Better with the ball? - Agger.

Better goalscorer? - Vidic (really gets up well for headers and is a constant threat from setpieces).

Better overall? - Vidic.

Agger has more potential than any player I have ever seen at Liverpool but he is not there yet. Can I also point out that comprehension does not seem to be a strong point on this board. It is a bit sad people can not make informed unbiased opinions on players as well I think.

The question is "Who's the best player?" It isn't who would you rather have, it isn't "who doesn't play for Man United?", it isn't "who would have been more suitable for us?" and it isn't "who do you think has played more games?". Feel free to comment on all of the above but first try and answer the question.

Unquestionably Vidic took the longer to settle. If you asked this question exactly a year ago people would have laughed at the prospect of Vidic being the better player, in fact most on this forum took the pi.ss out of United for signing Vidic and Evra who both looked useless until this season.

At the moment Vidic is better than Agger overall and in almost every attribute. However the reason I wouldn't rate Vidic as that much better than Agger overall is that he's still prone to some major mistakes, which for me is an instant serious black mark for a centre back. If he can sort that out next season then Vidic will be among the very best centre halves around.

Don't forget the reason we didn't sign Vidic - price. He was going for 7 million, and Agger for about half that. At the time we probably didn't have the money for Vidic anyway.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:28 pm

Its also a question of balance, Vidic tends to leave the ball playing and passing game to Ferdinand , whilst at Liverpool Agger is perhaps more important in this role, as distribution is not one of Carraghers strengths. The one key area where Vidic is much better, is in the air and maybe thats were Agger does fall a little short of top class.

As for StMichael's question.....I will sidestep it by saying it depends - if Agger continues to develop I would go for Agger, at the moment Vidic is probably better.

by **stmichael** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:28 pm

Both are awesome to be fair, considering their young ages. It is an odd one. I think Agger wouldn't do much at United and ditto Vidic here. Both suit where they ended up.

I'd rather have Agger, but if I were a United fan, I'd much rather have Vidic. The centre-back partnership of Agger/Ferdinand wouldn't be the best, nor would Carra/Vidic.

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