Liverpool FC Forum

by **RUSHIE#9** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:24 am

Just finished watching 'EL GRAN CLASSICO' (if thats wrong Sabre - and any other spaniards - blame SKY TV

) and I have to say that Rijkaard really has shown himself to be tactically inept tonight. HE hasn't learn't any lessons from what Liverpool produced against Barca or from what Sevilla did against them. Their defence has been suspect for a while but since employing this back 3 they've looked about as secure as a safe with no door on it. Tonight they lost one of their defenders to a red card right on half-time and what does he do? Brings on a left back and plays this back four:-

NO RB* Thuram Puyol Sylvinho

*= no right back - it was basically whoever is nearest at the time plays there!

I know we've been spoiled by the tactical genius of Rafa but you could see from the Barca players that they didn't have a fuckin clue what they should be doing. It brings up the question of, was Rijkaard the one who was masterminding their success over the last few years or was it the now departed (to Ajax) Henk Tenk Cate? It'd be interesting to know what the view is on this from Spain, hopefully Sabre or any of our other spanish friends could give a view on this.

Overall as a spectacle the 1st half was an amazing football match for the fans and it was only really spoilt by an over zealous ref who seemed to be earning a commission for every yellow card he dispensed.

by **65-1173565005** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:14 am

RUSHIE#9 wrote:Just finished watching 'EL GRAN CLASSICO' (if thats wrong Sabre - and any other spaniards - blame SKY TV ) and I have to say that Rijkaard really has shown himself to be tactically inept tonight. HE hasn't learn't any lessons from what Liverpool produced against Barca or from what Sevilla did against them. Their defence has been suspect for a while but since employing this back 3 they've looked about as secure as a safe with no door on it. Tonight they lost one of their defenders to a red card right on half-time and what does he do? Brings on a left back and plays this back four:-

NO RB* Thuram Puyol Sylvinho

*= no right back - it was basically whoever is nearest at the time plays there!

I know we've been spoiled by the tactical genius of Rafa but you could see from the Barca players that they didn't have a fuckin clue what they should be doing. It brings up the question of, was Rijkaard the one who was masterminding their success over the last few years or was it the now departed (to Ajax) Henk Tenk Cate? It'd be interesting to know what the view is on this from Spain, hopefully Sabre or any of our other spanish friends could give a view on this.

Overall as a spectacle the 1st half was an amazing football match for the fans and it was only really spoilt by an over zealous ref who seemed to be earning a commission for every yellow card he dispensed.

C.UNTS

by **orlandored** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:18 am

Amiga wrote:
RUSHIE#9 wrote:Just finished watching 'EL GRAN CLASSICO' (if thats wrong Sabre - and any other spaniards - blame SKY TV ) and I have to say that Rijkaard really has shown himself to be tactically inept tonight. HE hasn't learn't any lessons from what Liverpool produced against Barca or from what Sevilla did against them. Their defence has been suspect for a while but since employing this back 3 they've looked about as secure as a safe with no door on it. Tonight they lost one of their defenders to a red card right on half-time and what does he do? Brings on a left back and plays this back four:-

NO RB* Thuram Puyol Sylvinho

*= no right back - it was basically whoever is nearest at the time plays there!

I know we've been spoiled by the tactical genius of Rafa but you could see from the Barca players that they didn't have a fuckin clue what they should be doing. It brings up the question of, was Rijkaard the one who was masterminding their success over the last few years or was it the now departed (to Ajax) Henk Tenk Cate? It'd be interesting to know what the view is on this from Spain, hopefully Sabre or any of our other spanish friends could give a view on this.

Overall as a spectacle the 1st half was an amazing football match for the fans and it was only really spoilt by an over zealous ref who seemed to be earning a commission for every yellow card he dispensed.

C.UNTS

no thats you mate!

by **Sabre** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:25 pm

I couldn't watch the match, I had a dinner with the girlfriend, and the restaurant I picked had not the game (they used to put the game :angry:

)

I'll watch the game tonight but my Barsa friends are damning about the no RB as Rushie says. Oleguer was awful.

Kash mountain, I've picked one or two interesting player per team, that doesn't mean they'd fit here, but if any, that would be

Athletic Bilbao: Iraola -- Interesting young midfielder
Atletico: Maxi Rodriguez
Barça: Samuel Eto'o and Deco
Betis: Juanito or Sobis
Celta: Fernando Baiano
Depor: Capdevila
Espanyol: Luis García (yes, another one)
Getafe: Abondanzieri
Nastic: Gil
Levante: Kapo
Mallorca: Arango (not good enough for LFC), or perhaps Jankovic (AB?), I have to see him more.
Osasuna: Raul Garcia, for when Gerrard gets older
Racing: Zigic, but then he's a crouch with perhaps less ball control and better finishing
Real Madrid: I like Cannavaro, but we have great defenders. I like Casillas too...
Real Sociedad: Bravo, watch this keeper. Prieto might be good, but he's a Pennant that is slightly weaker, better dribling. Aranburu, as a reinforcement for midfield
Recre: Uche or Sinama, but they wouldn't have a place here
Sevilla: Dani Alves , but then, half Europe wants him. Wouldn't mind having Poulsen as a reinformcement for midfield, or Kanoute. Or Navas.
Valencia: Villa
Villarreal: Matias Fernandez, but he has come from Chile in December, and still has a lot to proof.
Zaragoza:Diego Milito

by **Kash_Mountain** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:45 pm

Kash_Mountain wrote:Hey Sabre, dont know if it's already in the thread somewhere but just in case, Out of all the players currently plying their trade in the spanish league (all levels). Which 10 would you most like to see in the Red of Liverpool FC?

One for you Sabre.

by **stmichael** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:29 pm

anyone who seriously thinks that the premiership is the best league in the world, needs only to have watched this match last night. the premiership is the most exciting league yes, but the best in terms of quality, no way.

i've watched two 3-3 draws in the last 24 hours. spurs-chelsea today and the madrid-barca game last night. now whilst the spurs-chelsea game was enthralling to watch, the general standard of defending was nothing short of laughable at times. in "el classico" there was so much genuine quality on show it was frightening. van horseface was clinical. ronaldinho showed glimpses of genius. and as for messi, he's the closest thing i've ever seen to diego maradonna.

as far as i'm concerned there is no comparison between the two leagues in terms of out and out quality. bolton are fifth in the premiership. in la liga, they'd struggle to get in the top ten ffs.

by **109-1170291157** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Zorionak Sabre!!!! Real played a good match... u can not said the same about my team...

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:21 pm

stmichael wrote:anyone who seriously thinks that the premiership is the best league in the world, needs only to have watched this match last night. the premiership is the most exciting league yes, but the best in terms of quality, no way.

i've watched two 3-3 draws in the last 24 hours. spurs-chelsea today and the madrid-barca game last night. now whilst the spurs-chelsea game was enthralling to watch, the general standard of defending was nothing short of laughable at times. in "el classico" there was so much genuine quality on show it was frightening. van horseface was clinical. ronaldinho showed glimpses of genius. and as for messi, he's the closest thing i've ever seen to diego maradonna.

as far as i'm concerned there is no comparison between the two leagues in terms of out and out quality. bolton are fifth in the premiership. in la liga, they'd struggle to get in the top ten ffs.

Have to disagree with you there St Mike.

I've watched a fair bit of La Liga this season - the first season I've really got into it to be honest (mainly because it's the first year I've had SKY) - and I'll certainly say it's much prettier on the eye than the premiership in general. A mid-table premiership game will bore you to tears half the time, but even the lesser la liga sides have very good technical ability and it's entertaining to watch.

However as much as el grand classico illustrated the attacking genius of Real and Barce, it highlighted one major weakness of Spanish sides at the moment - they can't defend. That's why only Valencia have reached the Champions league quarters while the premiership has 3 representatives. On that evidence I think you'd have to say that the Premiership is a stronger league at the moment.

by **Sabre** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:07 pm

It's tough to say what's better, anyway John Craig has a point.

It's true that in case of Barcelona they lost the battle mainly in defensive stuff. When they find on front of them a team that wins the ball back they struggle. In Spain, only Valencia and Sevilla can be compared defensively to Liverpool Football Club.

There are tough teams out there to beat, like Osasuna, but it's true defensivewise the premiership is harder.

I think that half the liga would have happily much of the defenders that we can see in the premiership. A man like Carraguer, would be the starting eleven option of the Spanish Squad if he was allowed to play for Spain, there are not defenders like him, if we let aside Puyol.

Many Spanish teams would have happily the couple of centrebacks of many english teams.

In the other hand I think that in the middle of the park in england there's a lack of good players. I think it's safe to say that Alonso would win the spot in the team to Carrick if he was english, and that in Spain there's a whole generation of good midfielders. Zapater, Arteta, Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc nowadays Spain and it's football is good in midfielders but lacks good defenders and especially R/L backs.

I think that both leagues have their pros and cons and that when you sum it all up they're similar leagues in power. I don't think Tottenham would struggle in the Liga, and I think that Sevilla could kick some important asses if they played in the premiership. The superiority of this leagues can be seen both in the UEFA and CL competitions, not only this year, but the previous ones.

by **83-1171708240** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:06 am

I’ve always found the Premiership much easier on the eyes than La Liga and ears for that matter. I don’t like making assumptions, but to me La Liga and Spanish football’s atmosphere seems quite abnormal and pretty bland. The pace of the football isn’t enjoyable, maybe that’s because I am used to watching the Premiership, but one thing that La Liga has always and always will better the Premiership on is technicality of the players, from the top to the foot of the table is jammed packed with an array of talented players, something which the Premiership clearly lacks. I think the Premiership is by far the stronger league, it has three representatives to La Liga’s one, but I wouldn’t say either league was vastly superior. The Premiership as an entertainment spectacle keeps dwindling each season, as the stakes get higher and the less entertainment is apparent and I’d imagine this is pretty much the same with La Liga. It’s quite ironic that La Liga and the Premiership are home to two of International football’s greatest underachievers. That said I’d rather watch Levante vs Betis than Charlton vs Wigan.

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:10 am

If by the pace you mean there are far too many interruptions due to poor refereeing, then you're right. Too many interruptions and the "law of advantage" isn't applied well.

The point of having 3 representatives is one I didn't bearn in mind yesteryear when Spain put 2 teams in the semifinals... meaning that when the leagues are so similar in strength the amount of representatives changes from one year to another.

But we agree in the main point, we could not say that any of this two leagues are vastly superior when you compare them.

by **83-1171708240** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:23 am

Too much interruption was the main focal point of my comment about La Liga not being easy on the eyes, it’s a very special league, but I do feel it is a league which does not promote enough physicality, which is a shame, it could be a much better league if it was allowed to flow more and there was a bit more physicality within the play. I have to say, in the matches I’ve watched there is far too much simulation, which at times forces me to abandon watching it.

The representatives does seem to change every season, but the last few seasons, I’d have to say English teams have looked stronger, Arsenal for most of the game (minus their cheating) looked much better than Barcelona and that was with ten men, I’d dare say if it wasn’t for Henrik Larsson’s involvement, Arsenal probably would have won the Champions League, they also knocked out Real Madrid, who were pathetic in both legs and Villarreal, you are of course correct, both nations house two of the best Leagues in the world, but I do feel English dominance may well be back on the horizon and this season’s final could well be an all English final, personally, I would liked a Liverpool vs Bayern Munich final, but that’s just me.

I think a lot of English people and Spanish people will say their leagues are better, I suppose when you only watch your motherland’s league for a long period of time, you are bound to be bias and are bound to find it difficult to watch other leagues, I certainly found it difficult to appreciate La Liga when I first started watching it.

by **puroresu** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:37 am

Messi is frightning. 19 and is only going to get better. Was refreshing to see Capello actually try and win this game. Barca dont defend great, but how much protection do the defence get? They will alway be vunruable due to the emphasis on attack. That philosophy has delivered two titles and the CL so cant be that bad!!

As for the Leagues comparison, I think the Spanish League table shows the strength of the league. The top 4 are so close together and not one side has dominated the league. Every game seems a hard game, especially away from home. The title race is so open and its there for the taking but not one side can string a run of wins together. English football fans would love to have such a close race.

Its unfair to say Englad has 3 representives and Spain has 1 left in the CL so the English is better. Italy has two representives but we all know its not as strong as the Spanish league. When Porto won the CL, did the league become the best in Europe?

Technically the Spanish league is a lot better and I would much rather watch a game between Getafe & Osusana than Bolton v Portsmouth.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:54 pm

Cracking game that was, and as mentioend Messi was unbelievable. We all know he's a world class talent but at 19 to score a hat trick in the Clasico is for me the sign that he has truly arrived. Provided he stays fit for most of his career, he will IMO be oen of the greatest players of all time, up there with the lieks of Zidane, Pele and Maradona. When this happens people will look back to Saturday night and say that the night Messi scored that hat trick against Real was the night he truly arrived.

He's only 19, it's unbelievable.

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:17 pm

he will IMO be oen of the greatest players of all time, up there with the lieks of Zidane, Pele and Maradona

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Promissing yes, he is, but Maradona is major words. My point is that it's not less than five the times in which the last two decades we had a new maradona, and we all saw then there's only one Maradona.

FFS, Maradona was especial even when he warmed up. In the old ground I went to the match 1 hour before the game. He came with Sevilla, he was fat, and he was lazy, he didn't warm up with the others but he warmed up by touching a ball. A guy beside me told him, are you hungry, take a tangerine!! and he throwed it to him while Maradona was looking, but not in the hitting manner, but smoothly.

Maradona did what only a man that has football in the blood can do: He controlled the tangerine (little orange) and he make keepie uppies with it, no less than 20 touches, and finished with the tangerine dead over his head. The bást!

In his previous spell in Spain in Barcelona I was too children to remember but I think Messi has a lot to proof during a lot of years to compare him to Maradona.

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