Liverpool FC Forum

by **Rafa D** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:25 pm

Once again, another defeat, another thread asking if Rafa is up to the job. This stuff gets boring. We did not play well against Arsenal, granted. We were awful actually, we couldn't get the ball off them at all, Hypia was watching the game go on around him and the whole squad had a bit of a stinker. Arsenal played very very well, I was actually in awe of how well they kept the ball and every pass was one touch and pass, one touch and pass. It was a footballing lesson. You can see they get it drilled into them on the training ground from day one. They are probably the best footballing team in the world. Yes they beat us, and 3 - 0 to boot, but it was Arsenal and it was away from home. I am not making excuses for us, I expect to win every game and I know thats the mentality that every Liverpool fan, player and manager should go to everygame with. We're Liverpool Football Club - the biggest and the best football club in the world and we don't lie down for anyone.

However looking at the bigger picture, most teams would get beat there and most teams will. I understand how much a defeat hurts, it kills me. If we don't win, I am a lousy bastardo till the next game and thats the way I am. However to question Rafa again and again after each loss is bordering on insantity. Rafa the Gaffer picked Liverpool up in one of our darkest hours and put us back on the European Footballing Map. We will finish in a Champions League place this year and we will qualify from the group stage again. Since Rafa took charge we have always had Champions League football, we are consistently in the best competition in the world - where we belong. WE ARE BACK AMONGST THE BIG BOYS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT.

How often did this happen in the past?! Rafa has brought a new level of consistency to Liverpool that was missing for the best part of 14 years. We expect to be among the Europes elite but how many managers actually took us and maintained us there?

Rafa Benitez is the right man for the job. People complain about Steve Gerrard being played out of position, well it was Senor Benitez who released the demon in Gerrard by letting him play in a attacking role for us. Before Benitez, Gerrard played defensive midfield, he was good but his potential promised so much more and Benitez was the man to get it out of him.

I would support Rafa fully 100% even if we finished 17th this year. He is the man for the job. He has the tactics, the aura and the belief in himself to do the job and bring it back home again.

This man has done so much for this football club in such a short smace of time and he has once again made the people proud and the people happy. He has brought the trophies and the good times back to Anfield and has the people believing again. I believe do you?

by **Hebz** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:28 pm

I believe, that was such a nice post

. Its humilating, we're supposed to have the best supporters in the world, but when we lost one match (or a few...) we're questioning the manager. Arsenal got off the a bad season, but was there one word of getting rid of Arsene or was he up to the job? NO. Have faith in Rafa, he'll shock you and the rest of the world.

He's done so much for this club, and he'll continue to do so.

by **Rafa D** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:34 pm

Hebz wrote:I believe, that was such a nice post . Its humilating, we're supposed to have the best supporters in the world, but when we lost one match (or a few...) we're questioning the manager. Arsenal got off the a bad season, but was there one word of getting rid of Arsene or was he up to the job? NO. Have faith in Rafa, he'll shock you and the rest of the world.

He's done so much for this club, and he'll continue to do so.

Hebz, that statement there has hit the nail on the head. Spot on. How dare we call ourselves the best fans in the world when we question the managers ability?

"Strength through Unity"

Lets stick together and ride out the rough patch. Rafa will definetly come up smelling of roses. :eyebrow

by **Red @ Heart** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:23 am

do we not each all have a right to our own oppinion? Best supporters or not we can all say what we think!

by **Hebz** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:26 am

theres opinions, and then there's just pure doubt.

we're not having the best of seasons, but we always come through at the end. just have faith, it might be a struggle at the moment but the premiership is with the likes of Chelski and ManU. we've played all the tough ones, and brushed them under the rug.

now we're going to have to have a clear head and take the other matches with ease. It all depends on Borough now, and I believe we can do it.

by **Rafa D** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:20 pm

Red wrote:do we not each all have a right to our own oppinion? Best supporters or not we can all say what we think!

A team and a manager should be judged on a season's work.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:13 pm

I was a bit worried to hear Rafa talk about the amount of trophies he has won here, he included Charity shield, Super cup, (i.e. one off games) sounded like that idiot Houllier in his last days (should have fired him two years earlier).

The league is all that counts. The champions league is glorious but still a cup competition. The other trophies are all a bit mickey mouse nowdays.

Rafa's rotation policy makes me furious, His signings have been dodgy overall and I am not sure he understands the English game. However, he took over garbage from that idiot Houllier (who got paid £5m for to p!ss off, so maybe not a financial idiot, just a football one). The end of this season will show a lot.

In any event, I think we should give Rafa the next 2.5 years. After 5 years in charge no manager can complain about their failure to land their target (at whatever level the club is).

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:24 pm

Big Niall wrote:I was a bit worried to hear Rafa talk about the amount of trophies he has won here, he included Charity shield, Super cup, (i.e. one off games) sounded like that idiot Houllier in his last days (should have fired him two years earlier).

The league is all that counts. The champions league is glorious but still a cup competition. The other trophies are all a bit mickey mouse nowdays.

Rafa's rotation policy makes me furious, His signings have been dodgy overall and I am not sure he understands the English game. However, he took over garbage from that idiot Houllier (who got paid £5m for to p!ss off, so maybe not a financial idiot, just a football one). The end of this season will show a lot.

In any event, I think we should give Rafa the next 2.5 years. After 5 years in charge no manager can complain about their failure to land their target (at whatever level the club is).

Houlier used to drive me mad when used to keep going on about 5 cups. Made Liverpool (and himself)sound cheap and desperate.

I like the CL and consider it on a par with winning the league in my list of hopes (moved it to top of the list now

)

I try not to think of Houllier getting a £5million pay off, I try to think of it as we just gave him Heskey as a going away present.

by **stmichael** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:16 pm

Big Niall wrote:Evans was a good manager and greatly improved the club from Souness, a much better manager than the fool Houlier. However Evans lacked the steel a manager must have and should have pulled Fowler, mcmanaman, Collymore, FAt ruddock and others out of their laziness. Would never win the league against better managers like Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho.

Evans is a top man and a good (but not good enough) manager.

Firstly, Evans' control over the senior players was tenuous at best and a lot of the Spice Boys stories were more than true. He did well with the resources that he was given but the only times that the club didn't back him in the market was because the targets wanted astronomical wages, Marcel Desailly and Lilian Thuram prime examples of that.

Roy was and is Liverpool FC to the core but he just wasn't cut out to be a top level manager in that he spent so long as a successful coach that the transition to manager was just a step too far. All the players liked and got on with him really well but therein lies the problem. There has to be a distance between the players and the management and the fact that Roy was close to many of the players largely undermined his remit. It's for that reason, IMO, that Moores took the action he did.

Roy Evans will always be an Anfield legend whatever happens but it was the right decision to bring another man in.

by **puroresu** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:49 pm

stmichael wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Evans was a good manager and greatly improved the club from Souness, a much better manager than the fool Houlier. However Evans lacked the steel a manager must have and should have pulled Fowler, mcmanaman, Collymore, FAt ruddock and others out of their laziness. Would never win the league against better managers like Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho.

Evans is a top man and a good (but not good enough) manager.

Firstly, Evans' control over the senior players was tenuous at best and a lot of the Spice Boys stories were more than true. He did well with the resources that he was given but the only times that the club didn't back him in the market was because the targets wanted astronomical wages, Marcel Desailly and Lilian Thuram prime examples of that.

Roy was and is Liverpool FC to the core but he just wasn't cut out to be a top level manager in that he spent so long as a successful coach that the transition to manager was just a step too far. All the players liked and got on with him really well but therein lies the problem. There has to be a distance between the players and the management and the fact that Roy was close to many of the players largely undermined his remit. It's for that reason, IMO, that Moores took the action he did.

Roy Evans will always be an Anfield legend whatever happens but it was the right decision to bring another man in.

If they wanted to get rid of Evans they should of done it in a more dignified manner. Bringing in another manager undermined Evans and was no way to treat someone who had served the club for so long. Everyone knew the double mangement would fail just Houllier knew the job was already his. Broke my heart to see Evans on his last day crying as he quit cos in the interest of the club it was the right thing to do.

The spice boys thing was overblown by the media. The players were doing nothing different to what other clubs players were doing.

by **puroresu** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:52 pm

Big Niall wrote:I was a bit worried to hear Rafa talk about the amount of trophies he has won here, he included Charity shield, Super cup, (i.e. one off games) sounded like that idiot Houllier in his last days (should have fired him two years earlier).

The league is all that counts. The champions league is glorious but still a cup competition. The other trophies are all a bit mickey mouse nowdays.

Rafa's rotation policy makes me furious, His signings have been dodgy overall and I am not sure he understands the English game. However, he took over garbage from that idiot Houllier (who got paid £5m for to p!ss off, so maybe not a financial idiot, just a football one). The end of this season will show a lot.

In any event, I think we should give Rafa the next 2.5 years. After 5 years in charge no manager can complain about their failure to land their target (at whatever level the club is).

Managers shouldnt need to remind us on how many trophies they have won. CL was great and the FA Cup is nice but I still wanna be the best side in England.

I only see the CL and the League as important now. The FA cup to me is nice but I aint that bothered.

by **67-1161385641** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:58 pm

stmichael wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Evans was a good manager and greatly improved the club from Souness, a much better manager than the fool Houlier. However Evans lacked the steel a manager must have and should have pulled Fowler, mcmanaman, Collymore, FAt ruddock and others out of their laziness. Would never win the league against better managers like Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho.

Evans is a top man and a good (but not good enough) manager.

Firstly, Evans' control over the senior players was tenuous at best and a lot of the Spice Boys stories were more than true. He did well with the resources that he was given but the only times that the club didn't back him in the market was because the targets wanted astronomical wages, Marcel Desailly and Lilian Thuram prime examples of that.

Roy was and is Liverpool FC to the core but he just wasn't cut out to be a top level manager in that he spent so long as a successful coach that the transition to manager was just a step too far. All the players liked and got on with him really well but therein lies the problem. There has to be a distance between the players and the management and the fact that Roy was close to many of the players largely undermined his remit. It's for that reason, IMO, that Moores took the action he did.

Roy Evans will always be an Anfield legend whatever happens but it was the right decision to bring another man in.

I could of sworn someone on talklfc.com posted that earlier. Puroresu, I agree entirely with your post about Evans, but we'll never know what he could of and would of done at Liverpool, we've got Rafa now so the Evans debate shouldn't over-power affairs with the current day.

by **alessandromagno** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:54 pm

Houllier wasn't a bad manager, but by the time he'd left it was already high time for him to go. Rafa has 5 or 6 years to win the PL. After that, if unsuccessful, we should try someone else. It's worth making the point that it's very difficult to win the PL now. We have fallen behind when English football seems to be reemerging as a major force in Europe. Either Arsenal, Chelsea or Manure are all capable of winning the Champions' League and are ahead of Liverpool in the PL in terms of consistency. In other words, Rafa has a really tough job to break the stranglehold of those other 3 clubs. Maybe he'll succeed maybe not. If not (after 5 or 6 years) both Rafa and the club will think it's time for a change. It certainly shouldn't be underestimated how important it was for LFC to win its 5th EC...though we had a tremendous amount of good fortune during that successful run.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Rafa deserves respect and the chance to be successful until 2010. It's hellishly tough to win the PL and we all need to pull together to have a chance. I will say, however, that Rafa's tendency to worry about what the other team will do doesn't seem t o be the usual Liverpool way. Remember Don Revie and Leeds? He used to make exhaustive notes on all the opposition and his fine team mostly missed out at the last gasp on all the important trophies.

by **Red @ Heart** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:10 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:
Red wrote:do we not each all have a right to our own oppinion? Best supporters or not we can all say what we think!

A team and a manager should be judged on a season's work.

Am glad u said season an not jus the last 4 or 5 games if not more, because thats wot it looks like.
But my point is that we are allowed to have our own opinion, an not just what one person thinks is right.
And it doesnt matter if you ve supported liverpool for 5 minutes or 50 yrs, thought that was the definition of a decent supporter to be able to have your voice heard!!!

by **BOODIDDY** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:56 am

some fans are unreal. We cant win the title with a relatively new team. There are stil changes too. We probably wont seriuosly challenge until season after next. If its going the wrong way then, then we will have to look at the management. Both Moores and Rafa.

But just now, remeber we are the only british team definately in the last 16 of europe and fourth place is two games away. Im already dreaming about athens.

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