Anybody worried ? - Thai money out the window ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby woof woof ! » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:55 pm

I know many of us were concerned about the injection of cash from the dubious Thai source but that now looks as though it may not happen. Where does that leave us ? .
Can we mount a realistic challenge without splashing out some serious money ? . OK,we have Cisse on his way (fingers crossed) but is that the extent of our rebuilding ?. New mgr (looks like Benitez) and a striker (Cisse) .
Have the board managed to turn a new dawn into a long dark night ?.
Don't know about you guys but I am seriously worried about the way things seem to be panning out.
:(
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Postby Woollyback » Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:59 pm

Not sure the deal's dead in the water, I get the impression that it's just the "funded by the Thai lottery" bit that's been binned. Maybe they're just working out a different way to finance it all. But I do share your concerns that we might end up with £0

But sooner have clean money from the Champions League, Sky etc than dirty money from the far east with major strings attached
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Postby Red » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:18 am

I'm hoping for all this to fall through, board to have a good hard look at itself, and take morgan instead.
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Postby azriahmad » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:19 am

Red, Morgan's offer is for a fresh injection of capital via a new share issue, which means all of the money goes to the club. Furthermore, Moores will have to actually fork out money to buy the new shares if he does not wan to be diluted. Morgan will underwrite the new share issuance, meaning that he will buy the new shares not taken up by the existing shareholders.

It has been reported that Moores has, over the years, put in some 10 million pounds of his own money to partially fund Houllier's purchases. Surely he is looking at getting this sum back, probably with interest, if he were to dilute his shareholding in Liverpool to a new or existing party.

The Thai bid will allow Moores to get some 30 million pounds with the remainder going to the club. Furthermore, this proposal will not allow morgan to get a seat on the board. That is why the Thai bid is seen as more attractive, although it is clear that Morgan's bid if far better for the club.

We do need some form of cash injection as Liverpool is some 19 million pounds in debt.
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Postby Starbridge42 » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:04 pm

If the Thai offer does fall through (I never really expected it to go through after I read a report he was buying it with Thai national money rather than his own) then the board will reconsider and accept Morgan's offer.  its good for the club.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:36 pm

Starbridge42 wrote:If the Thai offer does fall through (I never really expected it to go through after I read a report he was buying it with Thai national money rather than his own) then the board will reconsider and accept Morgan's offer.  its good for the club.

If the Thai bid unravels do you really think the board will swallow their pride bury the hatchet and ask Morgan to srep back in with an offer ? .
Most of us thought Morgan was the better option but the board didn't see it that way, I'm not convinced they will change their mind.
We need major investment if we want too remain competitive sometimes I wonder what the boards prioritys are as it often appears that they put their own welfare before the clubs. :(
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Postby XSD » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:12 pm

azriahmad wrote:Liverpool is some 19 million pounds in debt.

Where did you get this idea from?
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Postby mistyred » Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:35 pm

I don't know how literally we can take this but the national rag ??? suggested that if the thai bid falls through Steve Morgan will try an 85m bid.

And i also read that Beni will be anounced as manager within 48hrs and subsequently it's looks asif we might have a competition for Beni's managerial skills on our hand's or is it a smoke screen..
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Postby Dalglish » Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:19 pm

If the Thai Deal falls through, I for one wil be mighty relieved. This is Liverpool Footbal Club not the Mafia and we shouldn't be taking money off dodgy foreign governments anyway. Also when there is perfectly good money on offer from a staunch Red in the shape of Steve Morgan what exactly is there to decide ? ??? 

I'd rather have NO money than accept this blood money (Thai). What price a clean conscience ????

Bottom line is if we compete in Europe (CL) and mount a serious challenge for the title then the revenue wil pour in anyway and as City, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds and others have proved throwing money at a problem with a poor manager isn't the answer.

Getting benitez wil prove to be a critical decsion and I believe he can operate and compete against the richest clubs (Madrid , Barca,Ath madrid etcccc and still come out on top...... There really is no substitute for good management at any level.......
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Postby LFC #1 » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:38 am

well said Dalglish, I agree wholeheartedly. When there was first mention of the Thai deal it had me worried.

We are a football club not a political party and the Thai guy (Thaksin) doesn't seem (from what i've read) the type of guy we want here.
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Postby anfieldadorer » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:46 am

I believe, perhaps irrelevant, in law of nature. (seriously)
Good input results blessed output, evil input produces misfortunes and disasters

:laugh:





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Last edited by anfieldadorer on Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby azriahmad » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:57 pm

Quote (XSD @ June 05 2004,21:12)
[quote]
Where did you get this idea from?
[quote]

I got it from a newspaper report quoting Taksin's chief negotiator who was commenting on the financial due dilligence conducted by the Thais on Liverpool. The guy did say that Liverpool has some 4 million cash and above 100 million assets (mostly the players, I presume and perhaps this was before a new revaluation of Anfield). I suppose the idea of the statement was to make it publicly known to the Thais that the Liverpool purchase deal is attractive.

XSD, much as I am a fan and love Liverpool, we should not get too carried away when we hear about the club's financial affairs. Over the past 6 years under Houllier, we only played in the Champions' League in 2001 and 2002. We got eliminated from the first group stage in 2002. The Champions' League has been structured with a view to maximise the tv revenue for the participants, and the further a club goes, the more money it gets. Manure got some 20 million revenue up to the quarter finals stage, as compared to only 5 million to reach the UEFA cup final by Celtic/Porto last year.

During this past 6 years, Houllier spent some 128 million on players and netting only 66 million recouped from the sales of players, meaning that Liverpool incurred a net deficit of 62 million (this is what Houllier himself said after he resigned). Now, we had little CL money and we had less domestic income than manure and Arsenal due to the lower finish we had most of the time. Liverpool is also behind manure when it comes to merchandising. Liverpool also makes less from gate receipts as Anfield can only fill up 46,000 compared to 66,000 at Old Trafford. According to Arsenal, they lose some 1 million per game in home game gate collection over manure due to this smaller capacity.

Where did the transfer deficit funding came from? Borrowings from banks or other lending instutions and also advances from the shareholders. It is reported that Moores personally sank in 10 million of his own fortune to part finance Houllier's spending spree. It is not clear if this 19 million included the 10 million from Moores. Houllier's transfer deficit also exclude the wage bill, which must be quite big as we have a large squad. Consider this - even a cr@p/average player like Smicer makes 25,000 a week. How many of them are there in the whole squad? Surely Diouf and Heskey were on similar, if not bigger pay. Gerrard, Owen and Kewell are surely on 50,000 tp 60,000 a week.

Believe it or not, Liverpool really need some fresh funds and I find it quite acceptable that Liverpool'd debt is only 19 million and not 40 million or 80 million like Leeds. It is still not too late, as the debt compared to the assets value is not that high, but new funds are needed to ensure that Liverpool can get on a stronger footing and the stadium project can get kicked started.

If I get to see Liverpool's annual report (not publicly available at it is not a public company), then we can ascertain for sure the size of the debt. The Delloite's (a public accountant firm) survey on the financial status of the football clubs in Europe reported that in 2002 only 2 clubs made a profit - Manure and Bayern Munich. Arsenal made a loss that year as they had to pay large bonuses to the players for their double success.
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:11 pm

With the Thai deal dead and no further sound from Morgan it now appears that the speculation around Gerrard and Owen being sold may indeed be true as there is no other obvious way in which we can raise the much needed injection of cash.
If the board had used there heads we could have taken Morgans offer and told Gerrard we aren't letting him go,renegotiated a deal with Owen and signed some additional "class" players to give Benitez the perfect start.
Does that sound too far fetched ?.........this board couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. :angry:
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Postby JBG » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:05 pm

I also heard that Liverpool's debt was around £18million but the club argue that this is debt is managable and not cause for concern.

When Rick Parry arrived in 99 he stated that the club needed an extra £20million a season over 1999 revenues to be competitive: some money was raised from Granada and the remainder was expected to come from the Champions League.
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Postby supersub » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:40 pm

I have to agree with woof woof,this board is dire need of a leader with real business know-how.
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