Liverpool FC Forum

by **onizukaeikichi** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:53 pm

all we need to do is to let Gerrard on the free role, dont missuse him

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:01 am

Free role from where? In the center on the left or the right?

He needs a place in the team hopefully in the center and stick to it!

by **eds** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:20 am

So

off at the moment!

A lot of things can be said about the Cheatski game........

ONE - Where the f.a.r.k was Gonzalez? Not even on the bench, woeful decision by Rafa :no

TWO - We had two clear cut opportunities on goal, Gerrard and Kuyt missed absolute sitters.

THREE - The Cheatski game confirmed Zenden has, is and always will be an average player, I'm sorry for those of you that defend him, but he is. He offers nothing (in terms of attack) and is happy to just live life as a medicore squad player. :suspect:

So here is my rant:

Its time people realize that squad rotation is not the major problem with our team. Our current goal-scoring (3 goals in 4 games!) is a worry and team cohesion is definately another. Some will argue that this is because of squad rotation, but I actually think its because some players just can't play their style with other players (no matter how many games you give them together).

There were a lot of goofs in the game, to play Gerrard out on the left to accommodate Pennant, Alonso and Sissoko was ridiculous. To not have two attacking wingers (Gonzalez out on the left!) after seeing Pennant dominate out on the right and seeing Kewell rip their precious diamond formation to shreds (last season) was simply bewildering. Finally Sissoko should have been subbed off early as he was lucky not to have been sent off.

by **Espionage** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:40 am

Its just funny.....
Everytime that Rafa chooses a line-up half of this forum is upset becasue it wasnt the same as theirs. Some people selected the same and the rest didnt really think about it and in hindsight claim that it is so obvious.

People say the problem is this, the problem is that. And what is your solution? Play Gerrard central, stop rotating players etc.
If only the solutions were this easy

When slating Rafa think about these things: he has done extremely well in the transfer market, so well that we actually have selection headaches. It should be refreshing, but everyone whines and whines because they wanted this player or that.
Even posters that are "respected" and people "look up to" and always seem to be right (you know who they are, i am not going to name names) dont agree on the same 11 for every game. There are no obvious choices! If we win then nobody mentions Rafa, but if we play poorly then everybody talks about the player that didnt get time, or the formation that would have worked.
Think about the winning streak that we had last year, we had a solid starting 11 that didnt really change, Rafa stuck with something that worked, but so far nothing has worked.

Rafa has had how many games with his new unit? He needs time and we are not giving him any respect. I am sure that as soon as Rafa finds something that appears to be working then he will stick with it. If he stuck with now that wasnt working then the other half of the people on this board would be complaining that he wasnt giving players a chance.

Better and more even squad = more options = more people get dissapointed

Get used to it......

Rant over........ :angry:

by **Espionage** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:44 am

Restart Rant

If we had been playing poorly as a whole then maybe you would have something to complain about. But atm the team is playing great!!!
The things that are letting us down are finishing and elementary defensive errors.

If Gerrard had scored that goal against PSV and that one against Chelsea then you would be calling him a tactical genius.

So instead of blaming the selection, blame the players or the manager for not working on finishing, not being focused enough on the game to show their quality when it matters. IMO he has made great choices and is playing this one right, but thats what I think anyway........

Rant over.......

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:40 am

Espionage wrote:Even posters that are "respected" and people "look up to" and always seem to be right (you know who they are, i am not going to name names) dont agree on the same 11 for every game.

Respected is one thing but nobody should be "looking up to" anybody on here, it's all just bar-room opinions at the end of the day.

You are correct of course that pretty much nobody can agree with our best eleven and this is due to the strength of the squad. Sure there a couple of absolute givens, Carragher, Finnan etc etc but there would be plenty of different line-ups if you put a blank piece of paper in front of people. This is why I said in a previous ramble that I don't really have an issue with whatever team Rafa goes with, as long as he sticks with it for a bit. I'm not even talking about playing the identical eleven players for five games, switch a forward here or a winger there if you must, but broadly speaking play the same system and personel for a few games.

It's true that though we have lost two and drawn one of our last three games, with good fortune we could have won all three (I even include the 3-0 at Everton in that). Equally, it's true that we aren't actually playing that bad, quite well infact if truth be told. But, and this is the crux, it's equally true that you only have to look at the way we are playing to see that there are numerous occasions when players are unsure of each others whereabouts, unable to anticipate where the flick or lay-off is going to go.

The time for experimentation is over. Rafa is a fantastic coach, the best in the league (note how we are suddenly rock-solid at the back again) but while we are having a public "lets get to know each other" session in each game, our rivals are disappearing over the horizon.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:35 am

We played exceptionally well yesterday but lady luck was not on our side.
From observations this was probably our stronngest team with Riise to come back in, and Gerrard to go back into the central midfield.
I would really love us to start our best 11 for atleast 10 games and see, what it brings.
The odd rotation is ok, but not wholsale ones that Rafa makes nearly every game, hence the missplaced passes, because they dont know where their team mate is.
Its got to stop so the team can get some fluidity going, but I feel on wednesday against Newcastle, Garcia, Fowler and Crouch will play thats 3 changes again.

by **murphy0151** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:40 am

Ciggy wrote:We played exceptionally well yesterday but lady luck was not on our side.
From observations this was probably our stronngest team with Riise to come back in, and Gerrard to go back into the central midfield.
I would really love us to start our best 11 for atleast 10 games and see, what it brings.
The odd rotation is ok, but not wholsale ones that Rafa makes nearly every game, hence the missplaced passes, because they dont know where their team mate is.
Its got to stop so the team can get some fluidity going, but I feel on wednesday against Newcastle, Garcia, Fowler and Crouch will play thats 3 changes again.

Load off

that ciggy, if a professional footballer cant pass a ball to a player that he dosnt play with every game needs to be playing for everton.

Rotation is Rafas thing, all the moaning from people isint going to make him change his managerial style. Hes won the spanish league with this style also the Fa Cup and the european cup. Trust the guy for :censored:

sake.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:54 am

Like people have said we could each pick our own team and probably most would be different, thats neither here nor there really. I've said on this before Rafa should pick a team, play it, then gradually add the changes if and when.
It's funny really, when we were all so excited in the summer about our new arrivals, but now at the present there more a hinderance than a help. Thats the way it seems at the moment, and personally I would of expected this kind of patchy form with the amount of players brought in.
The thing though with Rafa at the minute for me is, he seems to have almost forgotten the fundamentals about picking a team dare I say it. I was always of the thought you build your team around your best players, one of them being Gerrard. At the moment Gerrards seems to be in more positions than Paris Hilton on a dirty weekend. If Rafa cant find our best player his best position and keep him there, how can he expect him and the the team for that matter to excel to the heights we come to expect from them . To find form and co-hesion a player needs stability in his position and I dont think Gerrards getting that.
Also the spine of the team, thats not really apparent at the moment, Agger, Hyypia and Cara ? Momo, Xabi or Stevie ? Kuyt, Crouch or Bellamy ? To me this is the key fundamental, last year it was Hyypia and Cara , Xabi and Stevie (for most part) and Crouch. Once thats settled and in place then you can adjust or build around it. But at the moment that to is being chopped and changed, dont get me wrong I dont mind the rotational policy, a bit like zonal marking once its established accordingly it will be fine. But I wouldnt tinker too much with the spine of the team .

by **kirankara** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:39 pm

i think ppl are oftem missing this point rafa knows gerrard is our best player and thats why he gets moved about because he can influence from all over the park, in all honesty without riise we have looked poor on the left we dominated in the middle yesterday(no prob there then) but aurelio and gonzalez have both had rude awakenings in this league and are still adapting, and imho stephen warnock is a sack of :censored:

and was almost on verge of being sent of in ten minutes of game starting, so knowing strength of chelseas midfield he put in the player he can most rely on to fill the gap we have, enter steven gerrard, captain fantastic, who as usual was at centre of best oppurtunities. i thought we played well yesterday, we created chances , whioch we didnt finish, but to all those who had stupidly high expectations of season i again re-iiterate that we have brought in half dozen new players have two significant injuries in kewell and riise and that integrating them was never going to happen overnigt, look at brazil in world cup, all the talent in world but no cohesion, why??? because half the team never plays together during the year in internationals. We are beginning to find our feet a bit as the games go on, im just talking from personal experience her in my five a side team, its taken us 10-12 matches to really begin to know where each other is etc, who can do what etc, and i can see that it will be the same here. I honestly never expected us to win title his year, i think we be in top three, but man united and chelsea are for me better teams as a whole, but they can be beaten and we will run them close this year and next, but if we dont win title, well, ffs chelsea have only spent how much achieving it, rafas working on a comparative shoestring budget, and has got us playing football gain, with width, strength in the centre and over bit of time up front as well, i think kuyt has impressed a lot, and bellamy too, hes had feck all to work with really and has ran his :censored:

off and put his heart and soul into his performances chasing every single ball down, and like Peter crouch last year it just aint working for him at moment, but after that dry spell at beginning of year we went strength to strength, but thats all forgotton right now isnt it?, its end of world times again, i think its time to bring in david moyes as new manager, no?

? so we can play the pretty stuff with one bald :censored:

up front getting long balls lunped up to him all game. Last season we complained that we were playing too many long balls and rafa brings in players to try add width to team, and now we want to :censored:

go back to lumping it gain, give me a break, if halfway thru season we still arent fully cohesive and are well off the race, i might be convinced , ok time for rafa to leave and let someone bring their own style to liverfpool fc and ditch the rotation system, but like the zonal marking system which is constantly savaged by andy gray and bum pals, which paul tomkinson show brutally showed on the lfc website to actually be a myth(we conceeded less goals from corners and free kicks than any in prem even including our european games, having thus played more games) and the truth is we just arent fully there yet as a team, players are adjusting to new leaue and new players etc, and thats truth of matter, at moment we just arent good enough. If you think you can do better than rafa, go on have a go, oh yeah i forgot you cant HES THE MANAGER and after having won european cups, champions league, fa cup etc, im inclined to put my trust in the big man myself not some jumped up little tarts who play football manager now and then, ok he makes mistakes, dont we all, and so do his players, but few teams will cause chelsea as many problems as we did, and bar an exceptional goal from drogaboo we would be more than likely siting here discussinga great point at the bridge or possibly three, but they are exceptional at shutting up shop when they go ahaed, and did so even further when ballack was sent off, can anyone remember single piece of positive, non attacking football they played in whole match possibly but definitely in second half. I can't. We're a work in progress, Rafa allways said he had five year plan, and has achieved lots in his relatively short tenure here, give the guy a feckin break man and have some faith :glare:

by **stmichael** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:54 pm

to be honest, i think it's quite obvious why we're struggling the way we are - because we have a load of new players and rafa is switching and rotating all over the place. nobody knows where anybody is, there's nothing instinctive about what we're doing - so our build up can be quite laboured at times. we had a front line of 2 new players and another new player in pennant being expect to be the supply line for them. you've got gerrard playing on the left wing, when he's not played there since the england failed experiment a couple of years ago. has gerrard now played all 4 midfield positions this season, as well as having a game as a 2nd striker? how's he supposed to find any rhythym changing all the time like that? how are the likes of alonso supposed to get the best out of gerrard when they don't know where he is?

personally, i think perhaps pennant does not have the quality against the better teams and should maybe be saved for matches of a lower importance than this, but i think that is a minor issue right now. all in all though i thought we played the best football from beginning to end - ffs, we're away to the champions and we took it to them. we need a touch of luck in front of goal and rafa to settle the side down a bit and stop making quite so many changes and i think we'll start to see our best football.

i'd like to see bellamy and kuyt left in for at least the next 2 matches to try and build up some understanding with each other and their team mates. get back to gerrard on the right, momo and alonso in the middle (for a few weeks at least) and maybe rotate the left mid position a bit between garcia, gonzalez and aurelio. then once we get into our stride, get a few points on the board, get the stirkers scoring some goals (in fact the whole team scroing), we can then start thinking about rotating a little and integrating the likes of pennant into the side and maybe getting other strike partnerships to develope.

we just need to get 6 points this week and everything will start looking different.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:26 pm

stmichael wrote:i'd like to see bellamy and kuyt left in for at least the next 2 matches to try and build up some understanding with each other and their team mates. get back to gerrard on the right, momo and alonso in the middle (for a few weeks at least) and maybe rotate the left mid position a bit between garcia, gonzalez and aurelio. then once we get into our stride, get a few points on the board, get the stirkers scoring some goals (in fact the whole team scroing), we can then start thinking about rotating a little and integrating the likes of pennant into the side and maybe getting other strike partnerships to develope.

we just need to get 6 points this week and everything will start looking different.

I'm game for Big Mick's experiment and my first 11 would be very similar to St. Mike's, lined up in a 4-4-2:

Reina

Finnan Carragher Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Alonso Sissoko Gonzales

Bellamy Kuyt

Subs: Dudek, Crouch, Garcia, Pennant, Warnock

For me, any chance to get Alonso, Gerrard and Sissoko onto the same pitch is a good thing but with the caveat that Gerrard should probably be on the right rather than the left. As John Craig wondered a while back, the left of midfield has seemingly become our problem position given Gonzales's slow start and Riise's injury. I'd be inclined to give the Chilean a run of games out there to find some form. If he is having a poor game, sub in Garcia or move Aurelio up from LB and bring in Warnock. If Stevie's having a quiet game on the right, move him to CM and take off Sissoko for Pennant (assuming we're controlling midfield). If Bellamy or Kuyt are having trouble making an impact up front, bring on Crouch.

This line-up should provide continuity and plenty of quality over the next run of games. Give it a go and let's see where things stand in a month.

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:55 pm

Funnily enough after saying that everyone would pick different teams, mine is exactly the same as Bad Bobs. Agger convinced me on Sunday that I was wrong to say Hyypia should have played, he is developing into a real prospect and deserves a sustained run.

by **tubby** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:00 pm

I think the problem is that as Stevie said in his autobiography all the players are seen as 'cogs in a wheel' meaning there is not star player. Which is good in theory i guess but Steven Gerrard will look good wherever you play him.

What Rafa needs to do is to build the squad around Stevie from his best position.

But I will say this, wait until we are injury free and our new boys are suitibly adjusted to the game, im sure then we will start to see the team playing how Rafa wants us to.

by **Liverpool4lyf** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:07 pm

mine would be

Reina

Finnan Carragher Agger Riise

Pennant Gerrard Alonso Kewell/ Gonzales

Kuyt Bellamy

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