Liverpool FC Forum

[Graeme Noble]

Mines would be:

.....................................Reina..................................


Finnan................Carragher................Hyypia...........Riise


Pennant.............Gerrard...............Alonso............. .Kewell


.........................Kuyt........................Bellamy.................

[PabloAimar]

mine would be:

               gerrard

kromkamp carra agger kewell

fowler   alonso   diao   kuyt

          bellamy crouch



i think gerrard could fill in goal if reina's form doesnt pick up

[Sabre]

Well I have defended the rotations before, and I still defend them, but if I have to be honest some of the pickings of Rafa surprised me.

For instance Warnock. I was happy Rafa uses him because he probably trains well and I like players to have a chance. Very few of us would have thought that he got an starting eleven place in the first CL match, that's nice. But I didn't expect to see Warnock again against Chelsea. I expected to see Aurelio. (not that I disliked Warnock but didn't help much in attack)

My first option for Gerrard has been always him to play in the middle, but I agree Bad Bob and Big mick when they say that our best midfield is when both Gerrard and Sissoko and Alonso play together. So if we have to move Gerrard it should be to the right. He uses well his left foot but he uses better the right. We seem to be more solid when we play one midfielder and just a pure winger.  I would like to have seen Bad Bob's formation but I haven't so far.

I liked Zenden against PSV btw, and I think he can have his minutes but as in the case of warnock I wouldn't like to see him on wednesday and again on weekend.  Against Chelsea I didn't like his decissions.

Gonzalez's lack of presence when there are injuries and players like Zenden and Warnock are having their good share of minutes, worries me a little bit.

[Lando_Griffin]

Well personally I think the only thing we've been missing is luck infront of goal.

For all the moaning about rotation, we've registered more shots than every single team we've played, despite having 4 out of 5 away from home.

Think about it this way:

Our two hardest league games are out of the way, as is our hardest Champions' League match.

Say "Oh, but when we go to Turkey..." all you want - Galatasaray are NOT a good team. They can intimidate in their shack, but are actually a rubbish side.

The teams we've played:

Sheffield United, away.

Yes, we played like a team that had not had much time to gel. Hardly a suprise, though. We conceded a goal only after Riise and JC had been subbed due to injuries.
We drew thanks to a penalty dispatched by God.

The only poor performance of the season, ignoring results.

West Ham United, at home.

Won 2-1, which would have been 2-0 had Zamora not paid Lady Luck his annual salary.
Not the greatest display, but still 3 points. (How often do I read "good sides win even when they play poorly"?)
An mediocre performance, hindered by a f*cking England International in midweek. Oh joy. (Don't start with the "oh, but no other team were affected...blah, blah, blah", because Sh*tski lost to Middlesborough.)

Neverton, in the pit.

3 goals, 2 of which were fouls and the 3rd a freak the like of which will never be seen again.

We had 24 shots, Neverton had 8. (5 of those came in injury time, BTW)
A shocking result, but not actually a bad performance as we were the better team for the majority of the game.

PSV Eindhoven, away.

Last season's semi-finalists (we didn't make it that far, you know), and the strongest side in our group, apart from ourselves.

A typical continental stalemate, where had the post not recieved a fresh lick of paint that afternoon, Gerrard would have won it.

Another game following a f*cking International break.

A workman-like performance in our toughest group match. Good result, despite what people think.


Sh*tski, in the toilet.

Outplayed, outclassed and outfought.

How the f*ckers ever won I'll never know.

(Oh yes, that's right - Good old Riley missed ANOTHER penalty, and Lady Luck was off being boned by Roman Abramovich.)

We battered them in the second half, and they won by that rarest of miracles - a Didier Drogba wonder strike that no goalkeeper in the World could have stopped.

Outplayed the CHampions in their own backyard, and had the chances to batter them.


SO in short, ladies and gentlemen, we are NOT suffering due to rotation in my view.

We are simply ruing a host of missed chances, which will rectify itself soon enough.

Keep the faith, peopel, and stop reading the "analysis" they put in the papers. It's garbage.

[Lando_Griffin]

I think the problem is that as Stevie said in his autobiography all the players are seen as 'cogs in a wheel' meaning there is not star player. Which is good in theory i guess but Steven Gerrard will look good wherever you play him.

What Rafa needs to do is to build the squad around Stevie from his best position.

But I will say this, wait until we are injury free and our new boys are suitibly adjusted to the game, im sure then we will start to see the team playing how Rafa wants us to.

Building a team around Stevie is all well and good, but should he be absent from the team for a sustained amount of time, the entire team will be f*cked.

"Why would he be absent?" I hear you cry!

Well injuries can strike any player any time. Plus by all accounts Stevie is considering leaving. (I very much doubt that, btw).

Setting a team up around one player is setting the team up for a big fall, IMHO.

[Ace Ventura]

I am actually with bigmick on this, rotation is acceptable, but its needs to be alot more subtle. Not changing half a team almost every game.
Its great that we have got a fantastic squad and near the end of the season we should see the benefit, but we want to still be competing for the major trophies at that stage.
Having said that we have been remarkably unlucky in the last two league games and that cant continue.

If i had to pick a team for a one off game i would go with this.

                        Reina


       Carragher  Agger  Hyypia     

Finnan             Alonso              Riise

             Sissoko       Gerrard

             Bellamy      Kuyt

I know most will disagree and i am in work so cant really go into the reasons why.
If we were playing a poor/lower league side you can swap Finnan for Pennant and Riise for Kewell/Gonzalez.
But against the top sides we would be really hard to break down and through Sissoko being so high up the pitch we would be gaining posession in dangerous areas.
Most will think its too defensive a line up but Agger can carry the ball forward and that would allow the whole team to push further up the pitch.
Bellamy and Kuyt are our best strikers imo and will form a great partnership.

[LFC #1]

Carragher

  Carragher          Carragher         Carragher         Carragher

  Carragher          Carragher          Carragher          Carragher

                       
                             Carragher             Carragher


Let's face it Rafa has tried about every other option, and we all dream of a team of Carragher's don't we? 

[Graeme Noble]

Well personally I think the only thing we've been missing is luck infront of goal.

For all the moaning about rotation, we've registered more shots than every single team we've played, despite having 4 out of 5 away from home.

Think about it this way:

Our two hardest league games are out of the way, as is our hardest Champions' League match.

Say "Oh, but when we go to Turkey..." all you want - Galatasaray are NOT a good team. They can intimidate in their shack, but are actually a rubbish side.

The teams we've played:

Sheffield United, away.

Yes, we played like a team that had not had much time to gel. Hardly a suprise, though. We conceded a goal only after Riise and JC had been subbed due to injuries.
We drew thanks to a penalty dispatched by God.

The only poor performance of the season, ignoring results.

West Ham United, at home.

Won 2-1, which would have been 2-0 had Zamora not paid Lady Luck his annual salary.
Not the greatest display, but still 3 points. (How often do I read "good sides win even when they play poorly"?)
An mediocre performance, hindered by a f*cking England International in midweek. Oh joy. (Don't start with the "oh, but no other team were affected...blah, blah, blah", because Sh*tski lost to Middlesborough.)

Neverton, in the pit.

3 goals, 2 of which were fouls and the 3rd a freak the like of which will never be seen again.

We had 24 shots, Neverton had 8. (5 of those came in injury time, BTW)
A shocking result, but not actually a bad performance as we were the better team for the majority of the game.

PSV Eindhoven, away.

Last season's semi-finalists (we didn't make it that far, you know), and the strongest side in our group, apart from ourselves.

A typical continental stalemate, where had the post not recieved a fresh lick of paint that afternoon, Gerrard would have won it.

Another game following a f*cking International break.

A workman-like performance in our toughest group match. Good result, despite what people think.


Sh*tski, in the toilet.

Outplayed, outclassed and outfought.

How the f*ckers ever won I'll never know.

(Oh yes, that's right - Good old Riley missed ANOTHER penalty, and Lady Luck was off being boned by Roman Abramovich.)

We battered them in the second half, and they won by that rarest of miracles - a Didier Drogba wonder strike that no goalkeeper in the World could have stopped.

Outplayed the CHampions in their own backyard, and had the chances to batter them.


SO in short, ladies and gentlemen, we are NOT suffering due to rotation in my view.

We are simply ruing a host of missed chances, which will rectify itself soon enough.

Keep the faith, peopel, and stop reading the "analysis" they put in the papers. It's garbage.

One of the best posts I've read in a long time!

[Festy]

i'd like to see bellamy and kuyt left in for at least the next 2 matches to try and build up some understanding with each other and their team mates. get back to gerrard on the right, momo and alonso in the middle (for a few weeks at least) and maybe rotate the left mid position a bit between garcia, gonzalez and aurelio. then once we get into our stride, get a few points on the board, get the stirkers scoring some goals (in fact the whole team scroing), we can then start thinking about rotating a little and integrating the likes of pennant into the side and maybe getting other strike partnerships to develope.

we just need to get 6 points this week and everything will start looking different.

I'm game for Big Mick's experiment and my first 11 would be very similar to St. Mike's, lined up in a 4-4-2:

                             Reina

Finnan          Carragher      Agger         Aurelio

Gerrard          Alonso          Sissoko       Gonzales

                    Bellamy        Kuyt

Subs: Dudek, Crouch, Garcia, Pennant, Warnock


For me, any chance to get Alonso, Gerrard and Sissoko onto the same pitch is a good thing but with the caveat that Gerrard should probably be on the right rather than the left.  As John Craig wondered a while back, the left of midfield has seemingly become our problem position given Gonzales's slow start and Riise's injury.  I'd be inclined to give the Chilean a run of games out there to find some form.  If he is having a poor game, sub in Garcia or move Aurelio up from LB and bring in Warnock.  If Stevie's having a quiet game on the right, move him to CM and take off Sissoko for Pennant (assuming we're controlling midfield).  If Bellamy or Kuyt are having trouble making an impact up front, bring on Crouch.

This line-up should provide continuity and plenty of quality over the next run of games.  Give it a go and let's see where things stand in a month.

Exactly what I was going to post mate.

[sworth26]

[The_Rock]

We played exceptionally well yesterday but lady luck was not on our side.
From observations this was probably our stronngest team with Riise to come back in, and Gerrard to go back into the central midfield.
I would really love us to start our best 11 for atleast 10 games and see, what it brings.
The odd rotation is ok, but not wholsale ones that Rafa makes nearly every game, hence the missplaced passes, because they dont know where their team mate is.
Its got to stop so the team can get some fluidity going, but I feel on wednesday against Newcastle, Garcia, Fowler and Crouch will play thats 3 changes again.

Hate to sound pessimistic...but if rafa starts out with Crouch & Fowler Combo, the best we can hope for is a draw...

Just my opinion though......

[kirankara]

gerrard and JC have spoken listen you infidels , lol, ok just thought id put these up in case no-one has read them


: CRITICISM OF BOSS MAKES ME SICK
Liverpool Echo 20 September 2006 

ANYONE expecting sirens, screams of panic or declarations of a state of emergency must be sorely disappointed when they arrive at Anfield. 

There remains an air of calm in the red half of the city, yet if you venture a few miles either side of Liverpool's boundaries there are legions prepared to work themselves into a peculiar frenzy on the club's behalf.
 
Steven Gerrard isn't sure whether to be bemused or insulted by the latest over reactions.
 
Since flying flak has been the prelude to two major trophy victories in two seasons, the skipper sounds almost sympathetic to those who have failed to learn the lessons of the Benitez era.
 
"Anyone who questions the tactics of Rafa Benitez must be crazy," says Gerrard, utterly unimpressed by the misguided souls claiming to be speaking on his behalf when they question what role he's playing.
 
"Rafa's already achieved so much in two years and all the players and supporters have total belief in him.
 
"I get sick of it when, if there's a bad result, everyone is talking about where I've played.
 
"Under Rafa I've been used to playing in different positions, and there's no point people going on about it every chance they get.
 
"I'm the first to admit I was as surprised as anyone when I was picked to play on the left on Sunday.
 
"I had to check the team sheet, but there were tactical reasons for that which nearly paid off.
 
"If I'd have taken my chance, as Ishould have done, it would have been because I was on the left against a defender who was having such a tough time he was subbed.
 
"If we'd have equalised then, people would have been saying it was a master-stroke by the manager to play me against Boulahrouz. These are the fine lines we're dealing with in football.
 
"I know under Rafa I'll continue to play in different positions, but that's because he thinks I'm a good player who can do a number of jobs.
 
"There will be times when I'm back in the middle and everyone knows that's where I prefer to be be, but the most important thing for me is always to see the team win, wherever I am."
 
Since the end of last season, there have been eerie echoes of 2002.
Back then, Liverpool ended the campaign on a high, were seen as the most likely title challengers, and invested heavily on the players they hoped would seal the deal.
 
It went horribly wrong as the final step towards an elusive 19th title tripped them up again.
 
The similarities in circumstances cannot be ignored, but Gerrard is adamant there is a major difference between then and now.
 
"The players we've brought in this summer are all top class," he says. "Maybe there have been times in the past we've made signings who couldn't hack it at a club the size of Liverpool. I can tell you now that's definitely not the case this time. Players like Kuyt, Bellamy, Pennant, Aurelio, Agger and Gonzalez are quality players.
 
"I've seen enough of them in just a couple of months to see that.
 
"Nowadays if a manager spends big money on a player, people expect immediate goals or man-of-the-match performances. It doesn't always work like that. You need to settle and adjust.
 
"Liverpool tactics and systems aren't the same as what these players are used to at other clubs.
 
"The main thing is have they got the quality and will they improve us? We've seen enough alreadyto see the answeris yes. That's whywe knowwe're going to be a better team this season. We 've just got to be a bit more patient."
 
What's needed most is a win. A victory to create momentum, justify the continued self-belief and keep the doubters at bay for at least another month, or preferably eight months.
 
"Confidence comes from winning games, but we haven't lost our belief in the dressing room," says Gerrard. "Of course we want to win and put on a good performance tonight, but it would be wrong to say we're desperate to get three points.
 
"It's not a desperate situation. We're going into this just like any other home game, knowing the pressure is on us to play well and win the game, as it always is.
 
"If that happens, things will already start to look better, but the last thing we want is everyone getting anxious already. It's far too early for that, and I think a lot of it stems from things which have been said and written making out we're already playing 'must-win' games. We're not.
 
"We're playing very important games, but there's no need to start panicking.
 
"As a captain, I actuallyfind it easier to do what's expected of me after a defeat because you know the lads are hurt and want to react in the right way. You don't really need to say much to them, because everyone is determined to put it right.
 
"Sometimes it's harder to get through to players when things are going well, because the focus can go a bit more if you think everything is going well." 
nly seemed to reiterate what i have tried to say in some parts

Jamie Carragher has backed Rafael Benitez's policy of rotating his team to keep players fresh and said he totally understands why that is an important factor in modern day football. 
The Liverpool defender points to the fact that squad rotation gave Benitez a lot of success when he was manager at Valencia and said the Liverpool players accept his ideas.
 
"Of course everyone wants to play," reasoned Carragher. "If you are not picked, then you are disappointed.
 
"But I think we are beginning to get the manager's ideas here, even if outsiders seem to offer criticism.
 
"You look at what he did at Valencia, and you can see that it works.
 
"He beat Real Madrid and Barcelona to the title by keeping his players fresh, and that is obviously what he wants to do here.
 
"If it means we are in a position to challenge later in the season, then maybe other people will start to understand too."

[112-1077774096]

ok, we can also see peoples opinions early in the season in this thread, it covers rotation

[bigmick]

Well for my part, I'm happy to stand by every word I said six months ago. I know I sound like a smug fecker, but I think the pessimists were proven correct.

[Sabre]

Yes, we can. Thank you for the search, I didn't remember this thread of *September*



Anyhow the relevant thing is to discuss this topic. I'd love to revisit this topic alone because it's been a while since we don't it. Just read a good post of Bigmick about it in another thread, but I'm still in the line of thought of Carraguer in the above post, rotations has it pros and cons. And I think the pros have more weight than the cons.

What I wanted to discuss is, granted, we started the season poorly, but was it due to over rotation??

Rotation seems something that when it makes us win, we never think about it. We only think about it when we lose...