Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:08 am

Liverpoolfc.tv are doing the Players Who Shook The Kop at the moment and I was just wondering if it was managers were would they stand in order of importance.

With all that Rafa has done in his first 2 years were does he come in? This is not a poll, just peoples opinions.

by **48-1119859832** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:20 am

by **redmikey** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:18 pm

some of souness decisions shook the kop more than any of the current managers!!

roy evans gave us a good team but had no authority over the players and buying ince was his downfall not the missing jig saw piece like we all thought

GH was a breath of french air when he arrived and money was flowing and all seemed well until the football stagnated because of over priced average footballer arriving in there droves
we went from a club in transision to a lumbering sick giant of a club

daglish took us from kings of the world to the over the hill boxer who has still got pride but has lost the speed to compete

question what would fergi have achieve at a bigger club like lfc at the time , the club was trying to maintain the bootroom ledgend without thinking about the future, those type of decision has put us 20 years out of the picture,

with rafa we are ahead of the game, a young driven manager that thinks about the team 24/7 and is planing for the future, 1 bad game at the start of the season and people are moaning about squad rotation and his tactics already, said moaners won't be so glum when we lift the league this term

by **PabloAimar** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:17 pm

redmikey wrote:some of souness decisions shook the kop more than any of the current managers!!

roy evans gave us a good team but had no authority over the players and buying ince was his downfall not the missing jig saw piece like we all thought

GH was a breath of french air when he arrived and money was flowing and all seemed well until the football stagnated because of over priced average footballer arriving in there droves
we went from a club in transision to a lumbering sick giant of a club

daglish took us from kings of the world to the over the hill boxer who has still got pride but has lost the speed to compete

question what would fergi have achieve at a bigger club like lfc at the time , the club was trying to maintain the bootroom ledgend without thinking about the future, those type of decision has put us 20 years out of the picture,

with rafa we are ahead of the game, a young driven manager that thinks about the team 24/7 and is planing for the future, 1 bad game at the start of the season and people are moaning about squad rotation and his tactics already, said moaners won't be so glum when we lift the league this term

amen

by **CardinalRed** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:17 pm

Equal 1st : Shanks/Paisley = One baked the cake, the other applied the icing......
2nd : Joe Fagan = unsung, but a treble including the Euro win in Rome puts him up there, Bob had vacated the drivers seat and Joe just took over to ease to the 3rd Title in a row
3rd : Rafa = A CL win will always put him in the mix...
4th Kenny = The Double in '86 was his masterpiece but he presided over a sad decline in '91
5th Gerard Houllier = The treble in '01 after some spectacularly lean and ordinary years

by **spion** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:33 pm

Souness nearly destroyed the club & Houllier was starting to go the same way.

by **BOODIDDY** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:27 pm

redmikey i really don't know where you are coming from with the ince thing. The lad was our player of the year and helped in some way to the coming through of gerrard. Ince for liverpool was brilliant.

Back to the managers:

1= Shankly
2= Paisley
3= Rafa
4= Fagan
5= Dalglish
6= Houllier
7= Evans

Just a mention on souness. He more than anyone shook the kop! As a player absolutely immense.
As a manager imo, unlucky and harshly ridiculed. He won a fa cup. Had to rebuild after kenny left us with an ancient team. Did this too fast and upset too many influential players off and on the field. Had to deal with the 4 foriegners rule. So staunton, whelan etc pushed out. Ok, marsh, stewart, carter etc shocking buys. But brought through robbie, jamie, and macca. Maybe just too young and naive for liverpool at the time. Also the club as a whole was living on its past and had been overtaken by scum and arsenal on the pitch.

I liked souness and he was one of the greatest players to play for us. In fact he'd be in my all time eleven with gerrard alongside.

by **Crouchamania** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:54 pm

I'd have Fagan before Rafa in third probably at the minute because let's not forget, he won the European cup in his 1st season too. He also won the league title in his 1st year too along with the Milk Cup (or whatever it was called then).

If Rafa lands us another trophy this season then he'll be third for me. It's just a shame that Joe had a short reign. Who knows what we could have acheived under him.

by **azriahmad** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:39 am

I grew up watching and falling in love with Bob Paisley managing Liverpool since 1975. Not surprisingly, Sir Bob is at the very top with Shanks second. Paisley did it his own way and not entirely with Shanks' players yet built his own Liverpool ruthlessly and moved on the conquer England and Europe. Third is a bit hard to call as both Kenny and Fagan and (in with a shout due to his successes so far) is Rafa. If Rafa wins us the Premiership or another CL, he'd be definitely third.

Third is hard to call because although Joe Fagan won a unique treble in his first year in charge, he did it with a Bob Paisley built team. In Fagan's second season, Liverpool started badly as we initially failed to cope with the loss of Graeme Souness and at one stage was in the bottom three of the old First Division before rallying to finish second to Everton. Fagan also took us to a second successive European Cup final but those days there were only 4 two legged ties before a final and we'd only met with Benfica in the Quarter-Finals who gave us some fight, with Kenny Dalglish getting sent off along with a Benfica player in the second leg in Benfica when we lost 1-0, yet progressed.

Kenny's team were ageing and going into decline by 1991, but his Liverpool are capable of playing such beautiful football, especially in 1987-88, when our football was so free flowing we almost played like Wenger's Arsenal in full flow yet with more steele. In 1991, up to Kenny's shock resignation, Liverpool played the best football in England but did not have the consistency of a pragmatic George Graham's Arsenal and we lost a lot of games we should have won in that season after Kenny departed and Souness made too many changes. Still, Kenny won us 3 League titles and 2 FA Cups during his tenure.

Rafa's feats are more amazing when one considered the rot we were in, the mediocre players he inherited and the state of the club's finances against the might of Chelski's owner or the CL money fuelled Manure and Arsenal.

Any of the three - Fagan, Dalglish and Rafa could easily be the third best manager in Liverpool's history IMHO.

by **Big Niall** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:52 pm

positions 1 and 2 are untouchable but in which order. I'd give Shanks the edge as he built the club although I think Paisley was better tactically.

Joe Fagan did very well but I don't know if he really put his stamp down.

They are the only three managers I hold in great esteem although when Rafa's days are up here he'll hopefully be right up there.

by **Big Niall** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:56 pm

Evans must be ahead of Houllier.

Houllier built a cup team but were terrible in the league, Evans finished top 4 every year and would have been in the CL every year under the rules when GH was there .

Under GH we competed with Bolton, Ipswich and Charlton for the final spot as they were on our level in the league. He spent way more than Evans and took over a much better team than Evans took over.

Also, Evans didn't take a huge sum of the clubs money to leave. :angry:

by **Kev Huyton 2006** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:28 pm

Interesting a lot of you rate Rafa over Dalglish! ??

Let me remind those....Dalglish won us the title, the double, and brought us the likes of John Barnes, Peter Beardsley, and Aldo. Ok David Speedie and Jimmy Carter too, but forgive him for that!

But had it not been for the Hysel ban, LFC would have won the European cup under King Kenny another 2/3 times! as we were the best team in Europe bar none at that time IMO.

Remember, we had Houlliers dross of Biscan and Smice in our European winning campaign of 2005, but no one could have predicted that win, it was a little lucky.

Can we retain it under Rafa?

Then he will be top 3 for certain.

by **crazyhorse** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:54 pm

1. Shanks
2. Paisley
3. Dalglish
4. Fagan
5. Benitez
6. Houllier
7. Souness
8. Evans

This is my list over the last few decades. You cannot split Shanks and Bob Paisley, and i think under Dalglish our one and two touch football was truly breathtaking.
Fagan was a big achiever with a side he had to be fair inherited from Paisley and Rafa has not done enough time to be a true great. Souness deserves a mention for his part in bringing up Robbie and Steve Macmannaman.
I am sorry, roy Evans was a great bloke and loyal servant to the club but he won sod all with a very talented squad- at Least Souness managed a cup!.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:36 am

Souness won FA cup and Evans the League cup but compare their positions in the league, Souness was mid table.

Dalglish took over a great team - probably the best in Europe but when he left Arsenal were the best team in England and Liverpool had all aged together. If Fergie had come here in 1986 we'd have won about 30 leagues by now.

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