Liverpool FC Forum

[In and Out]

can talk football please discuss the pros and cons of certain managers and players coming in or not.

This thread asks to prohibit the emotional posters and to continue their carry on in the 'New manager' thread.

Here, can we have some sensible discussion please, calls for said posters to get posting and add some quality discussion to the boards.

I'll start, It's patently clear that Roy Hodgeson who has been touted as the next Liverpool manager is not a favourite amongst the majority of fans. He isn't my first choice either (believe it or not!) but the term beggers can not be chosers spring to mind when choosing our manager.

This lies firmly at the feet of our cancerous owners who I believe ALL Liverpool fans want rid of.

But lets try and keep this thread based purely on footballing knowledge as it usually brings the best out of best posters on forums.

I can't see SG, FT or JM staying at Liverpool football club for various reasons. I personally think we're heading into a footballing abyss as a club until new owners come in. We've simply got to pull together for a year or two and ride the storm with the depleted squad we have. I can't see any 'successful' manager wanting to be our manager when the club is clearly in a mess, what manager like Didier Deschamps will want to put his credentials on the line and stick his neck out for us? Rafa Benitez did but he's gone and personally I couldn't see things getting better with him at the helm anyway (that's just my opinion).

I really don't know too much about Hodgeson, although I do believe where possible his sides do like to get the ball on the deck and play a bit of football. Is he the right man though to keep us afloat during this abyss? I could think of worse, I could think of better, but like I said before who'd be willing to stick his credentials on the line for us. Hodegson if appointed may see this as his last chance to have a go at the 'big time'. IF he came he could bring Brede Hangerland to the club as a regular Center-back, he looks an accomplished defender to me and one that would challenge all three of our current CB for a regular place in the side.

What do you guys think? IF he becomes our manager, is he a steady Eddie guy? do we need a steady Eddie guy? do his teams play good football? Now that Dalglish has been put on the back burner as our manager (he would of been my ideal choice in turbulent times) will he help any new manager appointed in the position, or have the owners/administrators burnt their bridges with him?

One more thing I have seriously been thinking about, given his form for Liverpool for last season and his England form currently I think I would be willing to listen to offers for Gerrard (controversial I know). It seems he wants away anyhow and it would be nice knowing that if we were to get 30 million for him or whatever that the new manager would get that to spend on new players (but who am I kidding right).

[Molby's bellybutton fluff]

Good post mate. The way things are I think Gerrard will leave, I think we'll end up having to take low 20's for him (I think he is worth more than that) and I think the new manager will be given around 10-15 million quid to spend of the fee. I think there is a decent chance Torres will be sold as well, for a fee of between 45-65 million. I think the manager will be given 15-20 million quid of that money to spend. Masherano will be sold too, for a fee of around 20 million quid, and the manager will get around half of that money.

So that leaves us in a very precarious position, and almost certainly any players who are sold will not be replaced like for like. Given that, we are going to need to develop and improve some of the players we already have, as well as buying shrewdly if we are to improve on last seasons finishing position. Players such as Aquilani who have been bitterly disappointing are worth sticking with, simply because if we do sell him we won't get the money to reinvest.

We need a manager who can motivate and gel players into a unit which is greater than their parts. I think Martin O'Neill is that man, and I thin the lack of transfer budget would be get overable for an ambitious manager as he could look ahead to the promised land of new ownership.

The club needs to pull together, the fans need to back the new manager whoever he is, and we need to hope in our hearts that we can remain a big club until the mess is sorted out. We aren't going to win the Premiership next season, the new manager's job is to get us towards some sort of competitiveness, and even that won't be easy under these circumstances.

My first choice would be Martin O'Neill. Roy Hodgson would do a decent job too I think, it isn't a FACT but then again neither is saying he isn't good enough. Rijjkyard woul do well, so would Hiddink, but I'm fully prepared to accept and back somebody who comes in from abroad who I've never heard of. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

Final point as it's bound to get asked. Why get rid of Benitez then? Because quite simply he isn't the type of manager we needed. He wasn't buying shrewdly, he wasn't motivating the team into a unit which was greater than the sum of it's parts. Not a dif at the man or the manager, just my opinion.

We'd better all get used to the likes of Dirk Kuyt being a bit of a hero too. For the first time in a long time I'm glad we've got him. Battlers like him are exactly what we need right now. The fans need to get behind any new manager and sharpish, even when we lose a few.

[Sabre]

can talk football please discuss the pros and cons of certain managers and players coming in or not.

I can't talk about Hodgson because everything I know of him I have read it on this forum, so it would be just to answer back your own opinions.

Other names I've seen here and there like Pelegrini, I like them, but Liverpool wise I'm just waiting until the preseason starts, we have a manager, and we know what players we can count on. In the mean time I preffer to think that the likes of Gerrard and Mascherano will stay, because I don't want to fall into a deep depression.

What do you guys think? IF he becomes our manager, is he a steady Eddie guy? do we need a steady Eddie guy?

I don't know what's a steady Eddie guy, but I suspect Hodgson is one of those managers that in Spain are famous "replacing" managers. If he's the kind of manager I suspect he is, that's bad news because it means the club doesn't have a big project in their hands.

I think he'll need the support of all the fans. I think it would be a mistake to be antinext manager because we were pro Rafa.

I think the owners have to be combatted, and they have to be combatted through Spirit of Shankly, that union should grow and the fans should move their and join, it's cheap, and it's the only way. 10000 posts are not worth a new member.

In a nutshell, I'll come back to the football discussion in the preseason games. In the mean time I know fúck all about most managers

[SouthCoastShankly]

You're changing the goal posts. You originally reckoned that pretty much all of the first team barring Carragher and Reina were off, now you've trimmed it to Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano.

I actually the situation is still in the balance, just because the bookie run Hodgson as favourite doesn't make it a certainty, in fact today many papers are reporting him to be the favourite to succeed Cappello.

Whilst I agree that Hodgson may not be the calibre of manager this club needs, he is the steady manager you refer to. In fact that has been his career - stabilising clubs.

Your stance on on Deschamps is comical. What credentials?

He has managed three clubs, one of which (Juventus) was in Serie B. He has one two French titles, hardly something to crow about.

[kazza]

The club needs to pull together, the fans need to back the new manager whoever he is,

Even if Rafa came back 

[ConnO'var]

I think Roy would not do a bad job. No, he is not my 1st choice, but he's not as bad as some seem to think. He is steady and I believe he understands the English game better than most. At this moment in time, this could very well be what we need.... especially in these dire times.

Unless, Dalglish is appointed as manager, it is my belief that any "non big name" manager who comes in, could well face a massive exodus of players, most probably lead by Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano. If there is one manager out there who can convince these guys to stay (outside of Mourinho or Hiddink), it's him. However, it's looking more improbable by the day..... so I have resigned myself to the fact that we will lose 3 of our big names to feed the debt we currently face.

To me that's about as dumb a move as they come, on the part of the b@stards we call our owners as it would make their asking price for the club even more unrealistic. But I digress.

I fully expect to see a depleted squad come the season opener and a minimal budget available to the next manager. As such, I think getting Roy in could very well be the best thing we can do. We are in so much debt now that it is extremely foolhardy to spend like there's no tomorrow..... Having Torres, Gerrard and Masch off the payroll could well be the only thing that could save us from administration short of a new sugardaddy.

Roy is a good manager who knows how to over-perform on a tight budget.... I believe he is a good man manager and is not as tactically rigid as most other British managers... largely due to his experiences in other European leagues.

Of course, this would mean that we are essentially going to have to re-build the club from the ground up but there are positives.

Let's look at the negatives first...

1. We won't be challenging for the league any time soon.
2. We will be unpalatable to big money owners due to the high likelihood of our big stars leaving.... which means that we will likely have to live with them 2 b@stards for the time being.

Positives

1. We will likely avoid administration.
2. Reduce our wage bill.
3. Maybe we'll finally see some youngsters given a chance.

It's a time of turmoil but this is completely out of hands..... our owner hold the cards and like or not, SOS or no SOS, we are at their mercy.

The appointment of Dalglish is of course preferable but Roy could very well be the rudder that steadies the ship in these turbulent times.

In fact, I wouldn't put it past him doing better at best, and most certainly no worst than the last incumbent with the reduced resources I expect him to have..... a little far-fetched I know but think about it..... Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Man City and Villa are the clubs who finished in front of us. Who else is there? Short of the bitters, the also rans can't be expected to set the world on fire next season can they? After all he took Fulham to 12th with a squad that's probably worth half of what we could get from the sale of Gerrard, Torres and Masherano. I certainly wouldn't put it past him of doing so.

So if Roy it has to be, than so be it..... I believe he has in him to surprise many.

[In and Out]

Your changing the goal posts. You originally reckoned that pretty much all of the first team barring Carragher and Reina were off, now you've trimmed it to Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano.

I actually the situation is still in the balance, just because the bookie run Hodgson as favourite doesn't make it a certainty, in fact today many papers are reporting him to be the favourite to succeed Cappello.

Whilst I agree that Hodgson may not be the calibre of manager this club needs, he is the steady manager you refer to. In fact that has been his career - stabilising clubs.

Your stance on on Deschamps is comical. What credentials?

He has managed three clubs, one of which (Juventus) was in Serie B. He has one two French titles, hardly something to crow about.

I wanted to say Frank Rijjkard but didn't no how to spell his surname, basically I was implying a manager who has had success on the continent.

I never mentioned anything about Reina or Carragher I think you've got me crossed with another poster.

However, Carragher looks a player of his former self and a defender like Hangeland would be useful.

I suppose like Sabre said too much can't really be said until something actually happens at the club. But if our better players are sold off, we will really be left with a core of average players. And it would be naive to think we'd get all the money to spend from those sales injected back into the team.

I also read that Mr Kuyt did not rule out a move to Inter when asked about it, Rafa may be willing to bring him to the San Siro.

[In and Out]

Good post ConnO'var

[ConnO'var]

Cheers mate.... been awhile since theres anything worth discussing without thing deteriorating into a slanging match...

[maypaxvobiscum]

the fact that our club is manager-less is bad because we're losing out in the transfer market with players whom we've been linked with in the past such as Simon Kjaer (sp) and others whose stock may rise at the end of their World Cup being snapped up by other clubs such as Spurs. it is unsure if the next manager appointed is on a long term basis or is just gonna be used as a firefighter till the ownership saga is resolved.

personally i would welcome a British manager. back to the roots, someone who is familiar with the system and it would be nice to see local lads step up. look at Everton for example, they have a couple of youngsters with so much potential such as Gosling, Vaughan, Baxter and Rodwell. its been ages since a Fowler or Owen was discovered within our ranks perhaps because of the mediocre foreigners being bought preventing their progress and opportunities. an example would be Stephen Warnock and Danny Guthrie, the latter being just as good if not better then Lucas.

[dawson99]

I can give good insight from the gambling side if it helps.

Hodgson was 1/5 yesterday, so for £5 you would make £1 proft... more or less a sure thing...

But...

this morning you can get Hodgson at 4/7, which is amuch better price.. if you don't want him to join

Pelligrini has moved the opposite way, coming in from 9/1 to 7/2, Dalglish stilla  best priced 20/1.

Interesting news from betfair, Gerrard is actually now odds on to stay... and around 6/5 to go. still pretty close but people aremore unsure now. Torres is more or less the same.



Don't know if that helps, but if money does indeed talk, nothing is certain at the moment!

[andy_g]

there's just way too many variables to try and make any reasonable guess about the shape we'll be in come the start of next season. will gerrard be here or not? will torres be here or not? will masch be here or not? will aquilani step up? will hodgson, deschamps, capello, o'neill, or someone else be our manager? will the cowboys still own the club or will they mercifully sell it?

the only thing i can see as the most likely scenario, going by the loudest noises and rumours doing the rouds, is that hodgson will most likely be manager and gerrard will most likely leave. it also seems that masch really wants away as well. so the prospect of a season or more of europa cup football wihout two of our other star players is going to lead to torres putting in a transfer request as well. so we may well be looking at a team in which kuyt, maxi, aquilani, agger and reina are the only decent players in a squad managed by roy hodgson and with little cash to rebuild with.

not inspiring, is it?

i agree with everyone who says that hodgson is not a step forwards for the club, and that he is more of a 'safe pair of hands', a ship steadier. maybe that is what we'll need - someone who might stop a certain slide and will keep things ticking over for at least a season. (not that i'm convinced that roy is the ideal person for the task, myself). one day the club will be sold and the burden of those two kunts will be off. all being well we will be bought by someone with a fair chunk of change burning a hole in their pocket and we'll be able to get some good players in again and start to look upwards. who knows if this will be this season, next season or in two or three season's time, but we all suspect that things will take a while to get better.

the good news is that this IS liverpool football club and despite everything we are an attractive proposition at the right price. as long as those two can be persuaded to sell at this right price we will bounce back, but we need to prepare ourselves for a period without the joys of the gerrards the torreses and the mascheranos until we get back on track.

[kazza]

personally i would welcome a British manager. back to the roots, someone who is familiar with the system and it would be nice to see local lads step up.

Local lads?? You are an Indian living in Singapore, what local are we talking about?

[metalhead]

personally i would welcome a British manager. back to the roots, someone who is familiar with the system and it would be nice to see local lads step up.

Local lads?? You are an Indian living in Singapore, what local are we talking about?

Kazza, please refrain from personal attacks and let's not ruin this thread. If you have something personal against a certain member please do it in private we don't need another fight, thanks.

[ConnO'var]

personally i would welcome a British manager. back to the roots, someone who is familiar with the system and it would be nice to see local lads step up.

Local lads?? You are an Indian living in Singapore, what local are we talking about?

And we're off again.. 

Why don't you just feck off once and for all... I'm tired of the constant sh!t stirring, stalking and personal attacks that trails in the wake of your posts.