Cisse. - Djib-brilliant?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby puroresu » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:39 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
puroresu wrote:Rafa just doesnt back Cisse and I think he knows that:

"If you want the player to play better and score goals and build his confidence, he needs to be playing games.

"Look at Crouch. When people were talking about him saying he could not score goals, we kept him in the team playing games and then he scored goals. Now it is the same with Morientes."

"But if you want to see your strikers scoring goals you cannot leave them out. "If you want to support one player then you need to keep him on the pitch"

Rafa is right in what here just he hasnt done the same with Cisse.

This debate isn't about scoring goals really, although obviously for a striker thats a must.
Cisse would probably score his fair share if he was played in the centre regulary.
But the team would suffer, unless the ball was played in behind the defence for him to run on to, the ball would come back, he cannot hold it up and bring the midfield in to play.
Thats Rafa's preferred tactic, and a major reason as to why Cisse being played on the right when he is selected at all.

Thats fine and if Rafa doesnt believe Cisse will fit into the system then so be it.  My argument is Cisse hasnt really played enough games in a row to be judged as a failure.

I didnt call Cisse a failure, he has been unlucky in the fact that he signed for one manager with a style of play that would of suited him, then the manager gets sacked before the move takes place.
Cisse is left being our record signing but one that the manager ultimately doesnt want, and tbh neither do i.
I am not blaming him totally for not cementing his place in the team (although he could of done more to change the situation)
If the manager doesnt think he is suited to the style of play he wants the team to use then there is nothing down for him.
puroresu, i take it you are French ? your support for him is blind imo.
We are looking at this from the point of view of what will benefit LFC more, Cisse being played in the centre with a total change in our system and style of play.
Or Rafa's preferred style of a striker that holds the ball up for the midfield to come and support, posession football with good movement, 1 and 2 touch passing.
There is no way in the world that Cisse can play that way, its not his fault imo, its just not his game, and never will be.
he is not unselfish enough to adapt his game to play in this system, that is obvious by the lack of improvement in the areas i have been talking about.

I just dont like it when people make BS comments about Cisse.  i.e. he only scored 26 goals in 38 games cos the French league poor.  Or "anyone with pace can score in France".  People say these things without any knowledge of Lique 1 at all!!!

I accept Cisse has weaknesses in his game however I believe with he has bags of potential and just needs to be nurtured.
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Postby JC_81 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:50 pm

dawson99 wrote:yet has anyone seen crouches first touch for the first two months of the year? it was awful. and i saw cisse with some great first touches.
Its just funny how every club in the world seemed to want him. We got him and suddenly stu and john craig know more about talent spotting than proffessionals who have been doing it there entire lives.

If ever there was evidence that your argument is sinking without a trace here Dawson then this is it.

To criticise Crouch's touch in the first few months of the season is ludicrous.  He wasn't scoring but his technique and ability to bring others into play was excellent and that's why the sensible posters on the forum stuck by him - they could see he had the makings of a good striker once he got off the mark and got some confidence.  Unlike Cisse, yeah his confidence has been low, but there was still little evidence from his all-round play that he'd make a good player.

As for me and Stu being talent spotters, my feckin bird could spot footballing talent better than the muppet who agreed the Cisse deal.  And there's a difference between managers of top clubs being interested in Cisse and those managers who foolishly go out and make him their record signing for 14 million.
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Postby RAFABENITEZ » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:07 pm

papoose wrote:have never, and will never, turn against him especially not while he dons the famous red strip of Liverpool FC.

Exactly mate, fair enough if anyone thinks he not good enough, that your opinion, thats the majorty opinion.

Just dont take it too far, support all in red 100%.
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Postby Paul C » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

From Teamtalk.com:

Martin Jol has confirmed that Spurs did not bid for Liverpool's Djibril Cisse in January, and they will not be bidding for him in the summer.

Cisse's agent insisted earlier this week that Spurs had contacted him with a view to signing his client on the last day of the winter transfer window.

But Jol dismissed his claims and added there was no truth in speculation linking Spurs with Manchester United's unsettled Dutch striker Ruud van Nistelrooy.

Jol did admit that Cisse may have been on his list of targets but contact with the Merseysiders or his agent was never made.

"There is no truth in either," said Jol.

"I can be honest about it. Everybody knows we were looking to get someone in on loan last January.

"Of course all the names were there, we have lists. Somebody will have mentioned him. But nothing come of all the other players on the list and I made a decision we would be fine with Mido, Robbie Keane and Jermain Defoe. It has turned out to be fine.

"But as for Cisse for next season - there is no truth in it."

:(
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Postby kopite » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:57 pm

Thats BS and just a myth.  if thats the case why does Lique 1 have The lowest goals per game ration of any big Euro league.

Below you will find some strikers wit pace who commanded big fees.  Now have all of them scored bucket loads in France?  I think not!!!

Wiltord:

93-94 Rennes 8 Goals, 26 Games
94-95 Rennes 5 Goals, 25 Games
95-96 Rennes 15 Goals, 37 Games
96-97 Rennes 3 Goals, 35 Games
97-98 Bordeaux 11 Goals, 34 Games
98-99 Bordeaux 22 Goals, 33 Games
99-00 Bordeaux 13 Goals, 32 Games

As you can see he didnt score that many goals per season in France but still commanded a huge fee.

Louis Saha

97-98 Metz 1 Goals, 21 Games 
98-99 Newcastle United  1 Goals, 11 Games 
99-00 Metz 4 Goals, 23 Games 
00-01 Fulham 27 Goals, 43 Games 
01-02 Fulham 8 Goals, 36 Games 
02-03 Fulham 5 Goals, 17 Games 
03-04(jan) Fulham 13 Goals, 20 Games 

Steve Marlet:

92-93 Red Star 93 5 Goals, 31 Games
93-94 Red Star 93 9 Goals, 40 Games
94-95 Red Star 93 11 Goals, 24 Games
95-96 Red Star 93 16 Goals, 35 Games
96-97 Auxerre 3 Goals, 24 Games
97-98 Auxerre 6 Goals, 18 Games
98-99 Auxerre 7 Goals, 32 Games
99-00 Auxerre 9 Goals, 33 Games
00-01 Lyon 12 Goals, 31 Games
03-04 Marseille 9 Goals, 23 Games
04-05 Marseille 7 Goals, 31 Games

Again if you look at the facts you see Marlet was never prolific but again commanded a huge fee.

Diouf:

99-00 Rennes 1 Goals, 28 Games
00-01 Lens 8 Goals, 28 Games
01-02 Lens 10 Goals, 26 Games

Again if you look at the facts you see Marlet was never prolific but again commanded a huge fee.

Drogba

99-00 Le Mans 7 Goals, 30 Games
01-02(jan) Le Mans 5 Goals, 21 Games
01-02 Guingamp 3 Goals, 11 Games
02-03 Guingamp 17 Goals, 34 Games
03-04 Marseille 18 Goals, 35 Games

Now Drogba did have 2 good seasons where he scored goals but never got to 20.

04-05 Chelsea 10 Goals, 26 Games

Cisse

00-01 Auxerre 8 Goals, 25 Games
01-02 Auxerre 22 Goals, 29 Games
02-03 Auxerre 14 Goals, 33 Games
03-04 Auxerre 26 Goals, 38 Games

Now you can see here that Cisse unlike the others I have mentioned has been prolific in France and actually did get 20 goals.

Henry

94-95 Monaco 3 Goals, 8 Games
95-96 Monaco 3 Goals, 18 Games
96-97 Monaco 9 Goals, 36 Games
97-98 Monaco 4 Goals, 30 Games
98-99(déc) Monaco 1 Goals, 13 Games

99-00 Arsenal 17 Goals, 31 Games
00-01 Arsenal 17 Goals, 35 Games
01-02 Arsenal 24 Goals, 33 Games
02-03 Arsenal 24 Goals, 37 Games
03-04 Arsenal 30 Goals, 37 Games
04-05 Arsenal 25 Goals, 32 Games
05-06 Arsenal 19 Goals, 24 Games

Now from here u can see Henry wasnt prolific in France at all (played as a winger at Juve not Monaco however showed huge potential and now look!!!)

Trezegeut

97-98 Monaco 18 Goals, 27 Games
98-99 Monaco 12 Goals, 27 Games
99-00 Monaco 22 Goals, 30 Games

00-01 Juventus 14 Goals, 25 Games
01-02 Juventus 24 Goals, 34 Games
02-03 Juventus 9 Goals, 17 Games
03-04 Juventus 16 Goals, 25 Games
04-05 Juventus 9 Goals, 18 Games
05-06 Juventus 20 Goals, 26 Games

This seasons top scorer list in Lique 1

1 Alexander Frei (SUI) Rennes   16   
2 Araujo Ilan (BRA) Sochaux   12   
- Mickaël Pagis (FRA) Strasbourg   12   
- Pedro Pauleta (POR) Paris-SG   12   
5 Pascal Feindouno (GUI) Saint-Etienne   11   
- P. Juninho  (BRA) Lyon   11   
- Matt Moussilou (FRA) Lille   11   
8 Mohammed Kallon (SLE) Monaco   10   
- Waldir  Lucas Pereira  (BRA) Ajaccio   10   
- Sébastien Mazure (FRA) Caen   10   
- Daniel Moreira (FRA) Toulouse   10   
- Frédéric Piquionne (FRA) Saint-Etienne   10   
- Marama Vahirua (FRA) Nice   10   
14 Mwaruwari Benjani (ZIM) Auxerre   9   
- Philippe Brunel (FRA) Lille   9   
- Marouane Chamakh (MAR) Bordeaux   9   
- Olivier Monterrubio (FRA) Rennes   9   
- Mamadou Niang (SEN) Strasbourg   9   
19 Laurent Batlles (FRA) Marseille   8

I dont see anyone with 20 goals in this supposed easy league.
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Postby kopite » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:58 pm

forgot too say great post puroresu
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:49 am

FYI ladbrokes are now 1/2 for cisse to be at liverpool next season. that means they think he will be, whcih is pretty bizarre.
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Postby tubby » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:54 am

stu_the_red wrote:
kunilson wrote:
emitynalooprevil wrote:
kunilson wrote:

kunilson wrote:Joe Cole was a showboating little prik from West Ham. Thats East London, and people like him there ain't got the nicest personalities in the world either......

Dont know where you going with this statement about East Londoners!!...........But anyway, he may have played for West Ham but he lived and was brought up in NORTH London. Fact.

At least get your facts about 'people like him' right if you're going to make such comments.

yeah sorry that was out of line, and wrong to boot. i have no issues with people from there, i actually spent most of my young life there and go back a couple of times a year. I didn't just watch Eastenders and judge him :D i just don't like him much from what ive read about him, but i dont know him so can't say for sure.

And Henry became a world class player at Arsenal, he may have had potential before but he was definately not there, and Juve turned him into a winger, but under Wenger at Monaco and :censored: he was centre forward.  Ronaldinho was even at Monaco, but no way was he as good as how he is at Barcelona, that could be down to issues with the club/manager but one example im reluctant to bring up is Rooney, who is already a great player.....but i have seen a great improvement in his abilities at Man U. And ferguson is known to handle young talent well. Fact. 

Rubbish.

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Postby *_Ruthless_* » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:57 pm

Cisse if given the right run in the side and a much needed confidence boost would be a 20+ goals a season man IMO..
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Postby Graeme Noble » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:02 pm

*_Ruthless_* wrote:Cisse if given the right run in the side and a much needed confidence boost would be a 20+ goals a season man IMO..

I totally agree.
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Postby The_Rock » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:14 pm

Cisse won't be a LFC player next season....so its no point defending him.....

i like cisse... if he had started more games, he would have hit 20 goals by now (think he is on 13 goals or something)....

But rafa doesn't rate him....At the end of the day (or season)..tat is all that matters.

Just hope we replace cisse with someone better....(ie..dafoe or DAVID VILLA).
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Postby Paul C » Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:28 pm

Why wasn't he in the squad today? ???
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Postby 112-1143112803 » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:56 am

stmichael wrote:
papoose wrote:On defoe,some of 'fans' suggest we should swap him for cisse plus 2/3m.
why?cisse has so far outscored defoe and will lead frances attack in the world cup.... defoe can only barely make the bench of Enland;not that they are scoring for fun anyway

Anyone who wouldn't prefer Defoe over Cisse must be smoking crack from a big ol crack pipe.

is that what rafa is smoking?!!!

i've got to get some too  :buttrock
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Postby kopite » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:03 pm

Everyone has given Harry another chance after his injury and poor performances . So why not give djibs one . ???
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Postby EddieC » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:46 pm

Watched him on Saturday & thought he was awesome! Why can't he play like that every week? But then again we don't play West Brom every week. If he can carry on that sort of form for the rest of the season, then he should stay. If not, bye bye Djibril.
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