Liverpool FC Forum

by **Effes** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:29 am

Rafa IS doing a stupendous job.
However any manager is open to criticism wrt team selection.
Everyone I know would have played Riise instead of Traore, but yes, when you look at the bigger picture - 9 straight leage wins PLUS top of CL group then we must take our hat off to Rafa.

by **polygemus** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:46 am

Everytime Traore plays, Hyppia will try to cover his position becuz Traore sucks big time. Likewise when Carragher is covering for Josemi (who's always guilty of ball watching)

I instinctively knew that our 10 game winning streak is coming to an end the moment I saw Traore's name on the lineup sheet.

I think Liverpool fans should erect a banner outside Rafa's home saying "Traore sucks, can't you see it!!??"

The new contract really pisses me off. We could hv offloaded him for 0.5 million pounds when the transfer window opens. Not much money but considering u can get money out of junk it is definitely worthwhile.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:55 am

We should have rested players against WBA not bolton, and anyway, we brought them on so why didnt we start full strength, THEN take people off at 60mins

by **Raoul** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:05 am

It is pretty obvious to me that Traore doesn't have it . Lando is right - a number of times today we were playing the offside track with a flat back three of Hyypia, Cara and Finnan, with Traore lagging behind.

But he isn't why we didn't win, nor is Hyypia or Reina. We needed Alonso, and without him in the middle, we needed SG there. We missed the distribution and stability in the centre of midfield until Alonso came on.

Maybe we had to rest Alonso, but in that case, SG should've been playing cente midfield. Hindsight is nice, I hope the lesson has been learnt.

by **BOODIDDY** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:15 pm

amazing a point at the reebok s good and when united lose tonight we will have the best christmas period apart fromchelski and we have a full squad to choose from. Remember last year with a depleted squad. We'll go semis or final in europe no question and that for me is the yardstick for a great team. It is Wengers Fergies and mourinho's holy grail no matter what they say in public.

by **Garymac** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:25 pm

I think the point here simply is.....Traore is Fuc*in woeful, simple as and i wouldnt play him at home against Sunderland, never mind away against Bolton, Rafa should know better than to pick this clown, even if it is a busy period.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:27 pm

As much as I dont rate Traore he is being made a scape goat, he was not at fault for either goals.

by **Garymac** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:33 pm

Ciggy im not making him a scapegoat, i just dont see the point in playing someone who is so bad you know he does nothing but weakin the team, he brings nothing to it, if anything and if Rafa feels the need to play him, Why didnt he play him in the home game against WBA and save Risse for the Bolton game??

That makes a lot more sense to me.

Like i said im not having a go about him yesterday, im just having a go in general!

by **stoney** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:33 pm

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:As much as I dont rate Traore he is being made a scape goat, he was not at fault for either goals.

Yeah especially as the person who started this thread didnt even watch the match

by **LFC #1** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:53 pm

banana wrote:When you play with a player who is well past it and has virtually zero pace you will get into loads of trouble against top teams. It did not work against chelsea and it did not work against bolton. We have adopted a deep defensive style because we have no pace at the back

Sorry but this is rubbish.

Firstly, Hyppia is still a top quality defender. You couldn’t keep so many clean sheets against Premier League opposition if you had a centre-half who was "past it".

Secondly, trouble against top teams you say?

- Last season we kept a clean sheet against Juventus AWAY and both legs against Chelsea in the CL.

- This season we have kept clean sheets against Spurs away, Man Utd and Chelsea in both CL group matches.

Thirdly, how often have we adopted this deep defensive style you speak of? We are playing a pretty high line in most games relying on the communication between the back four to step up in a line and catch opposition players offside, which has been very very effective. We have executed this approach to precision over our unbeaten run, making very few mistakes.

Here's an example from yesterdays game. Bolton caught us on the break on the halfway line, Sami was isolated one on one with Stelios free to his left. Now when the pass was played he could have turned and chased Stelios, but he knew he wouldn’t have enough pace to go with him, so he waited till just before the pass was played and stepped up catching Stelios offside by about a foot. It was very intelligent defending and stopped an excellent opportunity for Bolton.

Sami may lack pace, but he makes up for it with other aspects of his game. He's definitely getting on in years, but to right him off as past it shows a distinct lack of knowledge IMO.

by **stmichael** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:04 pm

LFC #1 wrote:
banana wrote:When you play with a player who is well past it and has virtually zero pace you will get into loads of trouble against top teams. It did not work against chelsea and it did not work against bolton. We have adopted a deep defensive style because we have no pace at the back

Sorry but this is rubbish.

Firstly, Hyppia is still a top quality defender. You couldn’t keep so many clean sheets against Premier League opposition if you had a centre-half who was "past it".

Secondly, trouble against top teams you say?

- Last season we kept a clean sheet against Juventus AWAY and both legs against Chelsea in the CL.

- This season we have kept clean sheets against Spurs away, Man Utd and Chelsea in both CL group matches.

Thirdly, how often have we adopted this deep defensive style you speak of? We are playing a pretty high line in most games relying on the communication between the back four to step up in a line and catch opposition players offside, which has been very very effective. We have executed this approach to precision over our unbeaten run, making very few mistakes.

Here's an example from yesterdays game. Bolton caught us on the break on the halfway line, Sami was isolated one on one with Stelios free to his left. Now when the pass was played he could have turned and chased Stelios, but he knew he wouldn’t have enough pace to go with him, so he waited till just before the pass was played and stepped up catching Stelios offside by about a foot. It was very intelligent defending and stopped an excellent opportunity for Bolton.

Sami may lack pace, but he makes up for it with other aspects of his game. He's definitely getting on in years, but to right him off as past it shows a distinct lack of knowledge IMO.

good post scott.

this vendetta that banana has had against hyypia for the best part of two years now is quite frankly pathetic and completely unjustified. at the end of the day, if reina could catch a cold and if the linesman had done his job probably we'd have kept a clean sheet yesterday. to blame hyypia is laughable.

traore is a complete liability simple as. you mention how we've been playing a high defensive line this season and i agree that we've been doing it very well. however as soon as traore comes back into the team he hangs back at least a yard behind the centre backs and plays attackers onside all the time. fortunately we got away with it yesterday.

by **drummerphil** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:05 pm

LFC #1 wrote:
banana wrote:When you play with a player who is well past it and has virtually zero pace you will get into loads of trouble against top teams. It did not work against chelsea and it did not work against bolton. We have adopted a deep defensive style because we have no pace at the back

Sorry but this is rubbish.

Firstly, Hyppia is still a top quality defender. You couldn’t keep so many clean sheets against Premier League opposition if you had a centre-half who was "past it".

Secondly, trouble against top teams you say?

- Last season we kept a clean sheet against Juventus AWAY and both legs against Chelsea in the CL.

- This season we have kept clean sheets against Spurs away, Man Utd and Chelsea in both CL group matches.

Thirdly, how often have we adopted this deep defensive style you speak of? We are playing a pretty high line in most games relying on the communication between the back four to step up in a line and catch opposition players offside, which has been very very effective. We have executed this approach to precision over our unbeaten run, making very few mistakes.

Here's an example from yesterdays game. Bolton caught us on the break on the halfway line, Sami was isolated one on one with Stelios free to his left. Now when the pass was played he could have turned and chased Stelios, but he knew he wouldn’t have enough pace to go with him, so he waited till just before the pass was played and stepped up catching Stelios offside by about a foot. It was very intelligent defending and stopped an excellent opportunity for Bolton.

Sami may lack pace, but he makes up for it with other aspects of his game. He's definitely getting on in years, but to right him off as past it shows a distinct lack of knowledge IMO.

good post and totally agree with you.
My earlier comments about Traore were not because of his performance against Bolton and i had no intention of using the lad as a scape goat for the 2-2 draw.I was happy with the point and called a draw before kick off.
up until the champions league final i gave the lad a second chance because somehow Rafa seemed to believe in him.After his first half performance which was absolutely shocking and down right embarressing i hoped i would never see him in a reds shirt again.Its since come out that he was been taken off but because of an injury had to get changed and come on again.
I know we were 3 nil down and i dont blame him entirely for that first half,but he proved to me playing for a big club,in a big game he couldnt hack it.
The sooner we get decent defensive cover and i'm not totally sure warnock is it yet,the better ........get rid a massive liability.

by **LFC #1** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:09 pm

drummerphil wrote:The sooner we get decent defensive cover and i'm not totally sure warnock is it yet,the better ........get rid a massive liability.

TBH I think Warnock is a good player, and still young. He is good back-up for Riise who is our best left back.

If we were to sign another centre-half I can't see the point of keeping Traore as he really is the last resort. Not sure why Rafa offered him a 4 year deal, only he knows.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:48 pm

Hoodfella wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Also, why the did he drop Alonso, our second best player for one of the hardest games we'll play all season?

I dont know the reasoning behind playing Djimi, but I would hazard a guess on Alonso.

I think he looked at the game, and the threat of it being a very physical one (not that he cant hold his own!) and as I think he sees Alonso as the 'Key' to our team and the tempo that he wants us to play at (which of course further makes you think, 'Why'!) that he wanted to save or rest him, and not risk him getting injured.

I have noticed, that if Rafa is going to rest one of our two key players (Xabi/Stevie) he tends to rest Xabi first and foremost.
Which in my mind, tells its own story!

Tells what story?? Because you can take it either way. Either Rafa rests Alonso more because its too risky to leave out Gerrard or that he rests Alonso because he values Alonsos fitness more?

I think the former, Gerrard is different that Alonso is so many ways but the biggest difference is creating goals Gerrards recent run in form and scoring goals proves to me that he is more important player than Alonso. Thats why IMO Rafa rests Alonso more often than Gerrard

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:51 pm

Also it was clear why Rafa played Traore. The whole team selection was based on a physical edge. Sissoko, Hamann, etc. Traore was pick for his height. SSN pointed out the fact that a massive number of Boltons goals come from set pieces and long throws

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