Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:09 pm

I think average is harsh JBG. But he's not in Sami's class.

For me you have different moulds of players.

Obviously some are better than others but they are all similar in there strengths and weaknesses. IE.

Midfield playmakers:

Scholes, Murphy, Jenas, Lampard. Lads who can score goals and see clever passes, they can defend and do defend but aren't great at it. On a lesser level the likes of Koumas and Bullard.

Box to box ball winners:

Keane (at his best), Gerrard, Essien, Davids and Gilberto. Again lesser players in the same mould, Parker and Smertin. Players that love a tackle, cover every blade of grass and try and make things happen.

Holding midfielders and holding midfield playmakers:

Vieira, Alonso, Hamann, Makelele. On a lesser note, Carrick, Butt etc. Holding midfielders meaning players who simply break up attacks and the playmaker bit meaning they set up attacks from deep positions like Guardiola and Alonso with intelligent passing and vision aswell as breaking up attacks.

Commanding centre halfs:

Hyypia, Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry. On a lesser note players like De Zeeuw, Ehiogu and Upson. Players that are good in the air and hold there position well and marshall a defence. Usually captain material and good leaders.

Sweepers:

Carragher, Henchoz (at his best) Gallas, Boumsong, Toure, Carvalho. Players who make last ditch tackles, sweep up and cover the main figure of the defence.

For me, to have a winning formula for a team, you need alot of qualities and you need to take into account all types of player, all qualities of players and the formation you want to use. If you're adopting two centre halfs then realistically you MUST have one of each otherwise you'll lack in one department.

by **antz** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:28 pm

Stu, would you say the sweeper CB needs to have more mobility than the commanding CB ?

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:30 pm

Not needs to have, but usually does have.

I wouldn't say there is many more "mobile" centre halfs than Campbell or Ferdinand. But the likes of Gallas and Carragher are more agile and better able to stay with a player who is running with the ball.

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:05 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Not needs to have, but usually does have.

I wouldn't say there is many more "mobile" centre halfs than Campbell or Ferdinand. But the likes of Gallas and Carragher are more agile and better able to stay with a player who is running with the ball.

Yes, thats one of Gallas' main strengths. He's one of the few defenders who can match Henry, Owen, Cisse or Rooney is a straight sprint.

by **A.B.** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:56 pm

Thats rich coming from you. Desecting points and repeating you own pathetic ones with no valid or thought provoking reasoning.

Please don't lecture me, I don't need lectures from tumbletits like yourself. Either get your point across without having a heart-attack or don't say anything at all.

He's not a winger you're right. But a very good left midfielder? Damn right he is. Not that you would understand that. I mean, its not like he offers a goal threat, he can't run, doesn't cover ground and he also never covers his full back.

Also 8 goals last season, the fact he's scored against the Mancs and Chelsea in the past prove he's totally useless and has no strengths

I don't give a damn whether he's scored against Man Utd and Chelsea. Smicer scored against AC Milan but it doesn't make him the best thing since the slice of bread.

If we're going to sign a quality right winger then we should sign a quality left winger, if Riise is a winger then I'm the king of Spain. Riise is a wingback, he would be perfect in a 3-5-2 formation however we don't use that quite often.

GERRARD, ALONSO and JOAQUIN WOULD WALK BLIND FOLDED INTO ANY SIDE IN THE WORLD. Don't you understand that? Is that to hard for you to grasp? Are you to stupid to see that Riise is a damn good player and absoloutely 1,000,000 times better than our current right winger... NOBODY. Is that impossible for you to see?

Are you too f#cking blind with Houllier's past signings to realize that Riise is not as good as you say he is? He has a hell of a shot but he's a very limited player who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance with Alonso,Gerrard and Joaquin.

1. A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! A RIGHT WINGER WE DON'T HAVE ONE AND THE WORLDS BEST WANTS TO COME AND PLAY FOR US!!! UNDERSTAND THAT D!PSH!T?

Is this the same right winger who talked about joining Real Madrid and possibly Chelsea? Is this the same Joaquin who said that he wanted to stay in Spain.

Figo said that it was his dream to play for Liverpool Football Club and where the fuck is he now dipshit?

A Left winger who has class and is better than Riise.

That won't be too hard then. The only reason Riise played as a left-winger last season was because Kewell[who has more ability in his pinky than Riise overall] couldn't sort his attitude out and the constant ''injuries'' he had/has.

You talk about how we should improve our starting eleven but insist that Riise would be good in the midfield alongside Alonso,Gerrard and Joaquin. What a fecking joke, if we're going to improve our starting eleven then somebody better than Riise should be in it.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:02 pm

I don't give a damn whether he's scored against Man Utd and Chelsea. Smicer scored against AC Milan but it doesn't make him the best thing since the slice of bread.

If we're going to sign a quality right winger then we should sign a quality left winger, if Riise is a winger then I'm the king of Spain. Riise is a wingback, he would be perfect in a 3-5-2 formation however we don't use that quite often.

When did i ever say Riise was anything other than a good footballer? Did i ever say he was great? Or class? Or world class? He's just a good player. Simple as that.

So you're saying there's no point signing the world best right winger because we aren't going to sign a left winger?

Yeah tell you what lads, we can't have the best left winger in the world so lets not bother getting the worlds best right winger. If we can't have both don't sign any! :laugh:

Are you too f#cking blind with Houllier's past signings to realize that Riise is not as good as you say he is? He has a hell of a shot but he's a very limited player who shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance with Alonso,Gerrard and Joaquin.

Riise isn't a good player? He doesn't have superb stamina, has no pace, no work rate, doesn't defend better than a normal winger, isn't powerfull, can't cross and isn't a goal threat? :laugh:

Is this the same right winger who talked about joining Real Madrid and possibly Chelsea? Is this the same Joaquin who said that he wanted to stay in Spain.

Figo said that it was his dream to play for Liverpool Football Club and where the is he now dipshit?

Figo's past it and overated. Joaquin has said recently he'd like to play for us, but we can't sign a left winger so lets not bother. :laugh:

That won't be too hard then. The only reason Riise played as a left-winger last season was because Kewell[who has more ability in his pinky than Riise overall] couldn't sort his attitude out and the constant ''injuries'' he had/has.

You talk about how we should improve our starting eleven but insist that Riise would be good in the midfield alongside Alonso,Gerrard and Joaquin. What a fecking joke, if we're going to improve our starting eleven then somebody better than Riise should be in it.

So you don't think Riise at left midfield is better than Kewell, Luis Garcia, Cisse, Sinama-Pongolle, Zenden, Finnan even at right midfield? Riise was probably joint second for player of the year last year lad.

Riise isn't at the moment THE WEAKEST LINK.

You replace the weakest area's first and at the moment, thats the right side of midfield. Thats the end of the arguement.

by **A.B.** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:58 am

When did i ever say Riise was anything other than a good footballer? Did i ever say he was great? Or class? Or world class? He's just a good player. Simple as that.

So you're saying there's no point signing the world best right winger because we aren't going to sign a left winger?

Yeah tell you what lads, we can't have the best left winger in the world so lets not bother getting the worlds best right winger. If we can't have both don't sign any

Thank you for proving that you're a tit. In previous threads you mentioned that signing Joaquin would solve all our problems. However you're obiviously wrong. You also mentioned that once we sign Joaquin that we will be able to challenge Chelsea.

I disagree and that's why I brought up the LM position. You can't possibly think that just because we improve in one position that we will challenge Chelsea. Why? Because unlike Chelsea we don't have quality in every position[including the LM]

Can you not put two and two together? You talk about improving our starting eleven and I agree with that but in order to improve our starting eleven we need to do it in all positions not just one.

Riise isn't a good player? He doesn't have superb stamina, has no pace, no work rate, doesn't defend better than a normal winger, isn't powerfull, can't cross and isn't a goal threat?

He's a good squad player but not a player that should be in the starting eleven week in and week out. Goal threat? Yes every once in a while he's a goal threat but how many times has he gotten into a scoring position and blew it because the ball wasn't on his left foot?

You look at Chelsea, look at the quality wingers they have in the LM position. Now compare them to Riise, he's a joke compared to them. In my opinion he's not a winger, he's a wingback but not a winger or a defender. He's stuck in the midle, a position he would be great for except that we don't use the formation that would suit him [3-5-2]

Figo's past it and overated. Joaquin has said recently he'd like to play for us, but we can't sign a left winger so lets not bother.

It was an example[I'm sorry but I think you're old enough to know that was an example, you aren't that big of a dumbass. You're not Hustler are you?].

So what if Joaquin said that he would like to join us? My point was that even though Figo said it was his dream to play for us he's in Italy playing for Inter. In summary footballers don't always mean what they say and tend to talk a lot at times.

Joaquin has also said that he would like to play for Chelsea and Real Madrid. I can't question his ability[its great] but I can question his mentality. What will he say next, that he wants to play for Manchester United?

So you don't think Riise at left midfield is better than Kewell, Luis Garcia, Cisse, Sinama-Pongolle, Zenden, Finnan even at right midfield? Riise was probably joint second for player of the year last year lad.

Kewell as far as ability is concerned is far better than Riise. The only reason that Riise got a spot as a winger is because Kewell fecked it up for himself. I realize that he was one of our most consistant players last season but he's not a winger and that's the end of the arguement.

The point is that you seem to think that all of our problems will be solved by signing Joaquin, and by signing him we will be able to challenge Chelsea.

What I'm trying to get through your thick ignorant skull is whilst signing Joaquin would greatly improve us on the right-wing the problems on the left would not be solved. We need to improve in all areas to challenge the likes of Chelsea week in and week out because the Russians have two good players for every :censored:

position.

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:17 am

I think probably when comparing Riise to Chelsea'a wide men it's wise to consider the difference between a winger and a wide midfielder. Robben and Duff are certainly wingers whereas Riise is a wide midfielder. It would be unfair to expect Robben and Duff to be as robust as the Norwegian defensively, similarly expecting Riise to go on mazy dribbles is probably unrealistic.
Not for the first time Stu and AB are either both right or both wrong whichever way you look at it as they are largely arguing about a different issue. I remember reading an interview with John Mcenroe where he bemoaned the retirement of Bjorg, claiming it finished him as a player also. His biggest rival was gone. I've felt that AB was the same in the absence of Stu and it's nice to see these two locking horns again.

My opinion is that Riise is a good player and our best bet down the left unless Kewell comes back and does something extraordinary. I think he is quite underrated and would pose this question, If he were English would he make the World Cup team down the left hand-side? My suspicion is that he would and that being the case would probably be hailed as something of a star by all and sundry.

by **A.B.** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:29 pm

Who still thinks that Riise is a good footballer? Today he proved that he's the most static,one-dimensional player on the planet.

by **stoney** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:31 pm

AB give it a rest mate. :sleep

Hes the best weve currently got available down the left wing.

by **A.B.** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:45 pm

Hes the best weve currently got available down the left wing.

and what is your point? Because he's the ''best'' option for a position doesnt' mean that he's a good option. He's not a winger, today he continued to prove why he shouldn't be a winger and why he isn't one.

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:08 pm

A.B. wrote:He's not a winger, today he continued to prove why he shouldn't be a winger and why he isn't one.

I totally agree with you AB but with all due respect I don't think he has ever pretended to be a winger. I've been trying to make the distinction between a winger and a right/left hand sided midfielder for a while now. Riise is a left hand sided midfielder and quite a good one at that. Alas though, you are correct he isn't a winger.

by **stoney** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:18 pm

A.B. wrote:
Hes the best weve currently got available down the left wing.

and what is your point? Because he's the ''best'' option for a position doesnt' mean that he's a good option. He's not a winger, today he continued to prove why he shouldn't be a winger and why he isn't one.

My point is AB if you cannot figure it out is that the position needs to be filled so the best you can do is fill that position with your best option. Its not that hard to understand is it

by **A.B.** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:42 pm

My point is AB if you cannot figure it out is that the position needs to be filled so the best you can do is fill that position with your best option. Its not that hard to understand is it

I understand that we have to fill that position but that doesn't execuse Riise from not being impressive and ineffective. Our best option is Kewell however we all know the story with Kewell. We can only hope that he regains some of his Leed's form and that he stays injury free for a while.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:00 pm

He found it difficult against probably the best side in world football.

How :censored:

he must be. :no

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