Liverpool FC Forum

by **barnesrush** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:11 pm

comparisons between owen and ex's make me fcking p!ss myself. the more love someone has for a player the more it hurts when they leave obviously, but its because hes such a good player that a lot of us are still hurt.

if owen was foreign and in the same position, i dont think anyone would have as much of a problem in welcoming him back, yet some fans take players leaving as some kind of personal insult. eg if cisse went to real for a season then after that we needed a player of his ilk, im sure he would be welcomed back. we expect the players, especially the british ones, to have the same love for the club that we do but those are unreasonable expectations.

unfortunately top players want to play for top clubs and real are undoubtedly that. we are a top club too now but people should gain some perspective. we'll never know the full details or motives of his move.

going back to the girlfriend comparison you have to realise what is right for you (the club) at the time. if an ex wants to go back cos she's realised how much she misses you or something then u may consider it. (if shes jus been dumped youl obviously be suspicious). in this case, if owen wants to come back his motives will probably never be known because of media spin from the club to appease fans, but football clubs cannot be run on emotions. if he is right for the club and within budget then he is obviously a good signing.

would anyone here be put off buying someone we are after, if they had run their contract down in the same way? i dont think so, yet it shows a similar mentality to owen, and shows they may treat us in the same way.

he may have been clever in engineering the move yet it waas THE CLUBS FAULT that we didnt get a good price for him.

(i could give dierdre a run for her money. Agony? jus readin this thread was painful enough

)

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:44 pm

Well im glad you had a laugh but i was only trying to put the principle across.
And no a football club cant be run on emotions ,but a football supporter of that club run on emotions.
Anyway deirdre you made a good evaluation of certan comparisons:D

by **joependo** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:15 pm

If we don't take him back fergie will snap him up and we'll have handed a huge advantage to out rivals

As you sed we would be handing a great advantage.Imagine him and Rooney together.They would be the best ever.Except for Carra tackling them.So as he sed snatch him before man u get him.You can't say he is :censored:

.He scores goals when you need to.You can rely on him.So i would get him.Anyone would.

by **76-1115222408** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:39 pm

joependo wrote:So i would get him.Anyone would.

Anyone would??

If this was so then how come the top teams in europe have not been linked to wanting Owen??

I will give a quick example of two top teams that 'on paper' could probably do with Owen (based on how good so many on here believe him to be! I am NOT one of them i will add!!)

JUVENTUS - They have:

Ibrahimovic
Class player with a lot of skill and excellent ball control, but wont score a heap of goals across the season, bit more creative than a goalscorer.

Trezeguet
Can score many goals, but has been out of form for the last two seasons (mainly due to injuries) and this may have affected him in the long term, only time will tell.

Del Piero
Getting on a bit now, and another that does not score a 'heap' of goals. Much like Ibrahimovic, in that he is more of a creative force and will drop off to receive the ball etc;
Definetly on his last legs (so we may expect to see him in te EPL soon then!! :laugh:

)

Mutu
AGAIN (FFS!) another creative player who will not score many goals as people may expect. Much in the Del Piero mould and is probably his long term replacement.

AC MILAN They have:

Shevchenko
I dont think i need to say anything in respect of Shev do I??
World Class..End of!!

Tomasson
Good player, but will never set the world alight will he. Will get goals, but he doesnt start regularly and that says it all for me really.

Vieri
Recent signing on a free.I think he is 32 now, and has been poor since the last world cup when he missed a sitter against South Korea,never been the same since! Doubt he will score more than 10-12 this season.

Cant think of any other strikers they have (which says a lot TBH) if you can please let me know who he/they are!!

So from these very quickly thought of examples, both could well do with a Michael Owen type player, but neither seem interested in the slightest.

The top teams always look for the best players around and simply being a goalscorer (and not much else!) is NOT what they are looking for.
Look Inter Milan bought Robbie Keane - NOT because he was a goalscorer, but because he had a lot of ability AND could score goals, so was able to bring more to the team than just goals. Ok it didnt work out for him (sadly IMO, I think he is a good player, who needs to just find the right club to settle at!), but TOP clubs look for MORE in the players they buy.

You may say well Real Madrid bought him, but my opinion is that he was bought to appease the fans as in the world of football he is a 'big name' (not necasarily a big player, a big name, mainly due to his goal in the '98 WC).
If Real were able to get Joaquin (as they wanted) last season, then no doubt they would have not looked at Owen.

YNWA

by **barnesrush** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:21 pm

milan also have inzaghi so your examples are of two teams who already have 4 top(ish) strikers. we know how good he is so we need to do whats best for us, not react to movement from other big clubs. not many coud afford owen and his spell at real may have put potential suitors off.

talk about keepin up with the jones' or what?

for two examples of 'top' teams linked with owen, i give u chelsea and also *cough* manusa

by **El Nino_#9** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:25 pm

andy kirk for next liverpool striker!

by **76-1115222408** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:40 pm

barnesrush wrote:milan also have inzaghi so your examples are of two teams who already have 4 top(ish) strikers. we know how good he is so we need to do whats best for us, not react to movement from other big clubs. not many coud afford owen and his spell at real may have put potential suitors off.

talk about keepin up with the jones' or what?

for two examples of 'top' teams linked with owen, i give u chelsea and also *cough* manusa

Yes I agree Barnesrush - or shud i say Deirdre

But the point i am making is that of all the strikers mentioned across the two teams mentioned, only prob Shev is unreplaceable and none of the others is the same 'type' of player as owen, so they still need a player of this sort...a simple goalgetter, but they would rather have a player who offers more than just getting goals.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:00 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
supersub wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:This is a former europian player of the year we're talking about here?

Your pathetic attempt to argue with everything i say stops you seeing how good a player Michael Owen actually is?

Your problem lad.

To be honest ..your undying love for MO prevents you from seeing how limited a footballer Owen is.

One individual and might I add undeserved personal award ,hardly makes a player world class or indispensable.

You idolise Owen like a school-girl crush on the P.E.teacher...sit and watch how many times he miss controls a pass,loses the ball when he tries to dribble and please watch his contribution to a game..if he don't score the lad is anonimous.Michael Owen is surviving on his exploits 4 years ago and beyond.He won't be back get over it

One undeserved award? How the hell can you sit there and say it was undeserved? What planet are you from? He single handedly won about 50 games that year and destroyed some of the world best teams in extremely high pressured situations. Something "God" never once done in his life time.

You either have a short memory, or simply didnt' see the games at all that year. The lad was simply unstoppable and if he hadn't have had the injuries before the league cup final, his season would have been even better.

The lads in a class of his own and is by long distance the best player to pull on the shirt of this club since at least 1992 and i'd stick my neck on the line and say he was a better footballer than the likes of Rush aswell, with the exceptipn the team around him was of nowhere near the same standard.

I'll put it simply for you, last season, by his standards he was woeful. He scored 19, 16 in the league, he got 4 assists in the league, 5 overall. Baros has 3 assists, 1 in the league. Baros has 9 goals in the league and 13 overall.

Are you telling me Owen's alround play is as bad as Baros?

I seem to remember you telling us all how good Fowler's alround game was and how that made him a better player than Owen. Well, all Fowler was, was vision and a goalscorer, he was worse than Owen outside the box.

Infact i don't know why am bothering to argue, any match going fan or anyone with a clue would would tell you how good he is. Thats why he's at madrid and has the respect he does anyway. Thats why he's won these games for us, thats why he won awards and thats why since he left, our away record has gone to pot and the team struggles to score goals.

The fact that the people who go to matches or the people who have a bit of knowledge instead of spouting all the time, IE... JohnBull, Leon, woof woof + 1 or two others on here all have the same opinion speaks volumes. At the end of the day, you ask every manager in world football if they want Owen in their team, i garentee EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM would take him. Without question. But what would they know eh?

a better footballer than ian rush!!
ian rush holds the goalscoring records for the f.a cup, the f.a cup final, the league cup (with geoff hurst) and merseyside derbys as well as the all time top scorer for the club accolade. owen has more goals than rushie in europe only because rushie played a lot less games and he didnt have any group stages against the third in the greek league to play in, only champions of the country`s.
you go on about the owen final of 2001 well rushie did it twice in two massive finals against everton back in the days before the cup was devalued. the whole world stopped when those two games were played and rushie did the business.
ian rush was as fast if not faster than owen and just as intelligent, his workrate off the ball was legendary and rather than just stand there ian would harass the back four but still have the energy and pace to get onto a through ball, and unlike owen he had a powerful shot. he was a lot stronger than owen in possession who gets bundled over and shoved around even in these days when defenders cant touch forwards, in rushies day there was no such thing as the tackle from behind rule and in fact centre halfs going through the back of your front man early was just part of the game. owen wouldnt have lived back then with the likes of willie young from arsenal, mick lyons from everton and terry butcher from ipswich. no free kicks for tripping over your own feet in those days mate and a shoulder charge was seen as good play. in fact if you were to break free defenders often hacked you down from behind because it was only a booking in those days, no instant reds. rushie lost countless goals to cynical defending.
ian rush has a average of more than a goal every two games in near 700 games at the top level. you obviously didnt see him play to make a statement like that....owen better than rushie.

by **barnesrush** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:08 pm

guess some people like strikers who score goals as their primary function and others desire more from a striker. not every forward is like henry who has set a new benchmark. this doesnt mean that the pure goalscoring strikers should be forgotten tho as its the most important part of the game. ok rafas teams have a history of goals from midfield yet i feel owen would not be the focus of play a la houllier. i also feel his allround game is at a good enough level to be a key part of our rafalution.

some will beg to differ tho so fair enough

by **JohnBull** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:24 pm

I saw plenty of Rushie and I was also watching the best provider I've ever seen anywhere, Kenny. I've watched Owen score goals out of nothing with a crew of sideways passers behind him.
I'd have loved to have seen Owen running on to balls from The King.

As far as the move to RM is concerned you should remember the circumstances leading up to the transfer. The club captain had made it clear he wanted away, stopped sharing with Owen on the England trips and started being room buddy to Lampard. At the very last minute he changes his mind after bad mouthing the club in Portugal and still stays on as club captain. It does leave a bad taste in the mouth and Michael Owen was no different - if half the effort just expended on Gerrard had been spent on Owen he wouldn't have gone.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:41 pm

JohnBull wrote:I saw plenty of Rushie and I was also watching the best provider I've ever seen anywhere, Kenny. I've watched Owen score goals out of nothing with a crew of sideways passers behind him.
I'd have loved to have seen Owen running on to balls from The King.

As far as the move to RM is concerned you should remember the circumstances leading up to the transfer. The club captain had made it clear he wanted away, stopped sharing with Owen on the England trips and started being room buddy to Lampard. At the very last minute he changes his mind after bad mouthing the club in Portugal and still stays on as club captain. It does leave a bad taste in the mouth and Michael Owen was no different - if half the effort just expended on Gerrard had been spent on Owen he wouldn't have gone.

owen wouldnt have been strong enough to play in those days.
what has steven gerrard or his sleeping arrangements got to do with michael owen playing for liverpool?? if gerrard wanted to go why did michael have to go? owen refused to sign a contract 12 months before euro 2004 and thats where the news broke that gerrard was thinking of leaving. it came as a shock to most fans but if you have inside information fair enough i dont, only what i read in the press.
i have never heard gerrard badmouth this club either but again if you have inside information i dont.
i think a lot of effort was spent trying to keep owen here and the fact rafa wont touch him with a twelve foot barge pole confirms it.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:30 pm

Right if you're a striker, your only reliable supplier of your goals is leaving, would you want to stay?

As for those know nothings that say he can't play in a 4-5-1.

Watch the Arsenal game at Anfield the season before last when we lost 2-1. He played his socks off.

The lads a class act, with the right service and style, any player can play in any formation, all Owen would have to do in the formation is make sure he's in the right place at the right time, keep possession and play the odd one two. As well as working the line as he does.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

by **banana** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:39 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Right if you're a striker, your only reliable supplier of your goals is leaving, would you want to stay?

As for those know nothings that say he can't play in a 4-5-1.

Watch the Arsenal game at Anfield the season before last when we lost 2-1. He played his socks off.

The lads a class act, with the right service and style, any player can play in any formation, all Owen would have to do in the formation is make sure he's in the right place at the right time, keep possession and play the odd one two. As well as working the line as he does.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

You say:
The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

The problems come when people don't support him and the three behind get lazy.

You never cease to amaze me dog. I must really question your loyalties and your football knowledge.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:34 am

You've got a cheek.

Owen mediocre, Hyypia one of the poorest centre halfs in the league, Baros fabulos blah :censored:

blah.

You talk out of you're backside more than anyone i've ever met you carrot.

The fact you can't even come up with an arguement to prove my perfectly valid point wrong, says it all. A striker can't play on his own with no support. Simple as that. You always go on about "team" "team" "team", well i got news for you ya tool, sometimes individuals can make a good team great and a poor team good.

by **Dalglish** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:50 am

The title of this topic "Michael Owen , do we want him?" I thought it was a rhetorical question until I noticed the question mark at the end of the sentence.

It's inconceivable that LFC would not take up their option should he become availaible and neither should they in my opinion because he is as near to the real thing (no pun intended) as we could realistically acquire.

It makes me laugh on here sometimes when we debate whether Baros will ever realise his so called "potential.....when will Morientes show us his undoubted pedigree and will Cisse find his French League form for us after a terrible injury and then go on to debate whether we WANT Michael Owen !!!!!!!!! FFS get a grip some of you, Michael Owen should be welcomed "home" with open arms and appreciated for what he is ....WORLD CLASS

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