Liverpool FC Forum

by **oldredeyes** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:54 pm

I think you both produce sound opinions, although I am not sure why comparisons between these two particular managers will prove to be signifcant.
They have both enjoyed similar success in Scotland, both are passionate and both totally committed.
Of the two I find O'Neill to be more honest in his approach and he seems to get the best out of average players - something we at Liverpool used to do well at one time but have not done so for some years.
Owzat - your stats are valuable and an essential method for evaluation - and Greenred, your point about stats are just as valid - particularly your comment about Shanks - before he came to Liverpool his record was nothing to write home about.
But Shanks proved that when the right man meets the right club at the right time nothing will stand in the way of success.
I don't know who will be the next manager at Liverpool, but I hope he gets it right from the start. Changes will need to be made from top to bottom.
The right man will develop his own stats in the future and for all our sakes I hope we get it right.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:46 pm

greenred wrote:Ok Owzat,your right,as always.O`Neill is quite obviously sh.it,Im amazed I havent seen it before.But your stats have opened my eyes.I will have to ignore the fact that he is the most sought after manager in Britain(apart from Wenger and Ferguson obviously),the fact that he has done a fantastic job at every club he`s managed,the fact that he turned Leicester into a secure cup winning premiership club(just look at the shambles they are in now without him)the fact that he has turned the SPL into a one horse race,the fact that he has turned Celtic into a feared European club despite the handicap of having no true competition in Scotland(getting Celtic to a UEFA cup final was a massive achievment),the fact that he has done it all on a tenth of Liverpools budget(and they still humiliated us in Europe),the fact that he has the rare ability to make players better,to play above themselves,and the fact that every one he has worked with has spoken of him in glowing terms.No i`ll ignore all this and just look at your stats.
You know,I read a statistic once that proved Pele was a sh.it player.Just goes to prove the old saying "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"

I never said he was *****, typical idiots way to continue an argument. You can't "win" through your argument so you try and belittle/change mine

O'Neill did nothing special at Leicester, top ten finishes have been done by managers at similar clubs to Leicester. The hype about O'Neill is what gets him the massive reputation, two second rate trophies and four top ten finishes sums his achievements up nicely

As for shanks - so what. If you believe stu_the_dickred then Houllier will win the trophy because it took Ferguson X years to do so. The stats don't prove anything other than O'Neill's record is nothing special, whether he will go on to greater things is debatable. I never said he couldn't win the title with Liverpool or whoever, just that a lot more doubt should be cast than obviously is by so many people's reaction to my suggestion O'Neill isn't necessarily the solution

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:47 pm

And sad to say it looks like the 5 people who have voted so far had already made their minds up - that is my exact point, noone even bothers to question it as if it were fact

by **greenred** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:05 pm

Owzat wrote:I never said he was *****, typical idiots way to continue an argument. You can't "win" through your argument so you try and belittle/change mine

O'Neill did nothing special at Leicester, top ten finishes have been done by managers at similar clubs to Leicester. The hype about O'Neill is what gets him the massive reputation, two second rate trophies and four top ten finishes sums his achievements up nicely

As for shanks - so what. If you believe stu_the_dickred then Houllier will win the trophy because it took Ferguson X years to do so. The stats don't prove anything other than O'Neill's record is nothing special, whether he will go on to greater things is debatable. I never said he couldn't win the title with Liverpool or whoever, just that a lot more doubt should be cast than obviously is by so many people's reaction to my suggestion O'Neill isn't necessarily the solution

Argument,what argument? You dont have an argument Owzat.You just produce selective old statistics to bolster whatever it is your trying to say,and when people disagree you call them idiots.Hardly a debating masterstroke.You ignore the bigger picture while obstinately sticking to your irrelevant googled stat.Why are you prattling on about Leicester when O`Neill is manager of Celtic?You might remember them knocking us out of Europe last year. Why are you comparing MON to Souness? It is a completely pointless exercise and tells us nothing about either of them.If O`Neill becomes manager of Liverpool it will be because he turned Celtic into a very good team(a top four team in England I would say), his superb motivational skills,his ability to raise a players game,and his sure eye in the transfer market.I doubt your Leicester stats will come into the equation.

You never did say who you want as new boss btw.

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:13 pm

i agree with you greenred. statistics mean nowt to me. i'm an o'neill fan and i look at what he's achieved at leicester and celtic without any money and it proves to me that the guy is top class. unfortunately he won't be our next manager though so the discussion is rather pointless.

by **greenred** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:21 pm

I hope your wrong.I can see him turning the team around even with the present bunch of players.Who do you think we will get then?

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:29 pm

Why not StMichael.......?!? He's turned down the likes of Leeds and Tottenham if press reports are to be believed but the minute Liverpool or ManUre come calling you won't see him for dust.

The supporters of that soap-dodging team can boll##ks on all they like about "why would he leave the biggest club in the world etc, etc, etc, boring......", but the truth is he would in a flash.

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:31 pm

it's impossible to tell. the main problem is that there is a general shortage of top class british managers around at the moment. this means that we are likely to appoint a foreigner which is not what i want unless he has a proven track record. my choice would be alan curbishley. he's a top draw manager as he's proved at charlton. generally speaking however, i don't really want to speculate until houllier is actually gone. then we'll see who's the best available option.

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:41 pm

Curbishley wouldn't be the one for me, nor the likes of Allardyce. If we can't get O'Neill then inevitably it will be a foreigner, the likes of Hitzveld or Capello maybe.....?!?

I can understand the 'never go back' argument but Dalglish wouldn't be the worst shout in the world for me.....

Liverpool FC Forum

Souness vs o'neill - Is oneill's prem record that impressive?

Souness vs o'neill - Is oneill's prem record that impressive?

Who is online