Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:55 am

Over the last decade has our decline as one of the TOP clubs in the world been accompanied by an equivalent decline in the appreciation of good football by our fans ?

I raise this issue because it disturbs me to see how often in this forum we seem to blindly hurl abuse at other teams/players regardless of the quality of football they may play. I remember days when the Kop applauded visiting teams for the quality of their play even though the b'stards were ( very occaisionally) beating us . It seems to me that we have many fans who apparently support LFC but don't actually give a toss about good football .

Your thoughts please .

by **109-1105722616** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:56 am

i know, they are everywhere

by **LFC #1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:03 am

it is sad, i love watching great football like Barca play. If Barca played us I wouldn't be hurling abuse at them or their players like Ronaldinho, just sit back and admire great football.

Of course whwn LFC are playing you don't care about great footy as long as we win, but i love the game and thus i watch a much of clubs like AC Milan, Madrid, Arsenal and Barcelona that i can.

by **109-1105722616** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:08 am

the match was brilliant tonight, didnt expect that score

by **begintoend** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:40 am

Those that are ignorant about good football, I say they are hooligans. I wonder sometimes if they see our club dishing out ****** poor fotball.
But I welcome anyone's right to comment a player's ability.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:46 am

The Chelsea V Barca game was a one off, you will never see a game like that for a few years I reckon, with all the hype before this match, Mourinho, Anders Frisk, Chelsea getting slaughtered in the Nou Camp etc etc............. it added to the excitement.

However Barca probably play like this week in week out, I dont watch the La Liga I could but I prefer to watch the prem and ive enjoyed some Champions League games aswell so far.
But if you turned the channel to manure v AC Milan good quality players on the pitch for both teams, but a bit boring, to say the least.
Mancs must have thought they where at Anfield, with Youll Never Walk Alone, being sung 3 times

.

Now back to Chelsea V Barca, I think youd be blind not to say that was the best football game you have seen in a long time.
But we have also seen chelsea play very defensive this season alot of 1-0 wins, only for that own goal in Cardiff we would have beat them, even if they did play better than us.

We held them for 80 minutes with all there superstar players and the money Roman has spent, Mourinho give our Jamie dogs abuse and riled our fans, then got ascorted away lets not be blind to that.

Maybe jealousy? we dont have some of there players when they very easily could have been bought and be playing in a red jersey now.

Maybe anger that we have been behind manure, arsenal and now a new one has cropped up being chelsea for so long now, and it doesnt look like we will be catching up in the very near future.

Chelsea may become the biggest in the world very soon all the glory hunters will jump ship from the scum and be supporting chelsea.

They havent won anything for 50 years, and now all of a sudden the media think they already have won the prem and the Champions league, its bound to get people riled.

We are a team built on history and hard working players sadly that left us along time ago, will we win the prem in the next ten years? I for one do not know, but we cant compete with them until the relevant funds are given and the right players are brought in.

2 of the best players on that pitch last night where Terry and Lampard, your talking 60-70 million for just 2 players but cause there english thats the asking price, this is why we need more english blood in our team.
I am not taking anything away from Xabi or Morientes, but you need a core of english the sooner we get em the better.

by **bigmick** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:15 am

Barca are an absolutely awesome team of that there is no doubt. It's quite a sobering thought that last season, our Rafa was in charge of the team that pipped them to the title. Another awesome team.
Makes you wonder what he's thinking when he watches our lads sometimes. Must be like watching a different sport. When he encounters the prima-donnas over here (Le Tellecs, Gerrards, etc etc) he must be sooo tempted to say, "listen son, when you can actually play the game come back and talk to me, in the meantime shut the F up". Just imagine if he could build a team for us that could play football like that. Jesus.

by **LFC #1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:50 am

agree with the English thing Lynds, if you look at all the top clubs in the world they have a core of top players from their own country or similar countries. i.e. Ireland, Wales and Scotland for english clubs and Portugal for Spanish clubs.

e.g.

Real Madrid - Raul, Guti, Salgado, Helguera, Figo, Pavon, Portillo. and up until recently Hierro.
AC Milan - Inzaghi, Gattuso, Pirlo, Nesta, Maldini.
Juventus - Buffon,Del Piero, Cavenaghi, Zambrotta, Cannavaro
Chelsea - Duff, Terry, Lampard, Joe Cole, Bridge
Barca - Victor Valdes,Xavi, Puyol, Olegeur, Deco.
Man United - Rooney, Neville, Scholes, Keane, Giggs, Ferdinand, Brown.
Porto Last season - Costinha, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago, Nuno Valente, Deco
Valencia - Baraja, Vicente, Mista, Marchena, Curro Torres, Rufete.
Also another the is the South American markets, namely Brazil and Argentina.

-Madrid have Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Samuel, Solari.
-Barca have Belleti, Ronaldinho, Maxi Lopez, Silvinho.
-AC Milan have Crespo, Kaka, Cafu.

and the list goes on

of course their are exceptions to the rule like Arsenal who have been succesful with mainly French players, down to an excellent manager in Wenger.

We failed with the Frech Revolutiion led by Houllier, let's hope the same doesn't ultimately happen to Rafa with his Spaniards. (Rafa is a better manager than GH and has a proven track record unlike GH did when he came really. Although Rafa has bought proven quality in Alonso and Morientes, GH never bought the likes of these players which were form the french league).

of course it generally doesn't matter where a player comes from as long as he is quality, however I think an Enlgish base is imperative for an Englsih club unless we sign 3 or 4 Brazilan players by the names of Adriano, Kaka, Ronaldinho and Lucio.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:58 am

Something also to worry about our under 18s are bottom of the league, with Manure, everton and Botlon under 18s being the top end of the table, unfortunatly players like Owen Carra Gerrard and Fowler, surface every decade.
Think we need to start bringing in some very young talent and learn them there trade at the academy.
Arsenal have some excellent young players coming through the ranks, we have spent alot of money on the training facilities at the academy, if we plan on being successful in the future you need a majority of players coming through the ranks.
We should be scouting other clubs young talents and be brining them in.

by **JC_81** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:33 pm

What a ****** post!

I'll admire other good teams and sit back and enjoy when they're not playing against us.

Why the f**K would i want to applaud a team playing well against us? If Leverkusen string together 20 passes tonight and the move ends in a goal for them i certainly won't be applauding, as I'm sure you won't if you're honest.

Get a grip

The idea of supporting a team is that you want them to play good football and win, not their opponents. Otherwise what's the point?

by **jonnymac1979** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:44 pm

It's not the point John. Nobody is happy when a goal goes in against us, I don't think he's saying that.

Do you recall the goal Barcelona (Overmars) scored in 2001-02 against us at Anfield. They strung about twenty passes together. I felt like throwing a brick through the telly but there was nothing that could be done about the goal.

You've just got to hold your hands up sometimes and say that it was one of those occasions when you have just witnessed football at it's purest.

by **stmichael** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:42 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Over the last decade has our decline as one of the TOP clubs in the world been accompanied by an equivalent decline in the appreciation of good football by our fans ?

I raise this issue because it disturbs me to see how often in this forum we seem to blindly hurl abuse at other teams/players regardless of the quality of football they may play. I remember days when the Kop applauded visiting teams for the quality of their play even though the b'stards were ( very occaisionally) beating us . It seems to me that we have many fans who apparently support LFC but don't actually give a toss about good football .

Your thoughts please .

i give Chelsea every plaudit after last nights game. I thought they were superb. However this does not stop me from disliking the arrogance which typifies the club from top to bottom.

I've been loathe to jump onto what seemed to be a jealousy-fuelled bandwagon, but last night really brought it all crashing home. They're a cancer in the sport. A thuggish, nasty, aggressive, thoughtless, rule-breaking, cash-rules-all organisation filled with vile personnel from top to bottom.

I know all the Chelsea scum will say we're all just bitter: Liverpool used to be the richest club, winning everything all bank-rolled by the Moores family. Partly true. But can't they see the obvious and crucial differences? It's like Wenger said, their success isn't a reflection of the club's potential, it's 100% Abramovich. And that's the problem.

The likes of Moores and Jack Walker are/were football FANATICS with businesses rooted in the area, and in the Moores case, directly linked to the sport which John Moores loved so much he was directly involved in both Merseyside clubs.

Abramovich isn't even a football fan. He just happened to be in the right place, at the right time, with the right weapons to somehow inherit 50% of the oil in the former USSR. And then decided (why you may ask?) to simply BUY a club. Think about it, it could be fcuking CHARLTON in that position.

And then he gets in vile, bloated maggots like Kenyon in, to pretend that Chelsea will soon be run "as a viable business".

Who are they trying to kid? The way it's run it wouldn't last a nanosecond in the real world. The horrible pit of a club was already spiralling into a Leeds style oblivion under it's old boss, the execrable Ken Bates.

A real business? One that posts an £88m loss, the largest EVER, and then follows that up by PAYING their kit supplier to rip up their deal. Genius.

And then there is also the little matter of being able to pay whatever they like, for whoever they like. Their spending has been as unprecedented as it has been obscene. Hundreds of millions in less than two years. A figure which would have gone up even higher if their two main targets, £36m Gerrard and £35m Shevchenko hadn't said "no".

Abramovich likes Terry Henry? Whack over a bid to Arsenal for....oooh, I dunno £50m? Fancy Ashley Cole? Let's meet up with him, offer him the Earth, deny it, and refuse to attend any hearings. Need a central defender? £24m for Carvalho seems fair. Need another RB to cover £6m Johnson? How about £13m Ferreira? And then there's the need for two left wingers, so as well as Duff let's outbid United by £7m for that lad they've been after for years, Robben I think it is. And quadruple the wage offer. Best keeper in the Premiership? Let's get another one in! And let's try and sign that lad Carson, too - can't let Liverpool have him.

It was that transfer move that made me very, very afraid for the Premiership.

Yes, there have always been the have's and the have-nots. The glamour clubs with famous histories. The "big" clubs. And Chelsea have never been in that league. We have (and possibly still are) because of our history and heritage. It's never been a level playing field, but this playing field is farther from "level" than ever before, it may as well be perpendicular.

They will win the Premiership, and they will KEEP ON winning it and everything else, until Abramovich gets bored, shot, or thrown in jail. They cannot fail to win, season after season and their arrogance, money and sheer unlikeability will mean that fewer and fewer people will care about the beautiful game. They've turned this season into a bit of a joke.

In just 6 months they have usurped the title that took United an age: most hated club in England.

But they are far more dangerous.

:angry:

by **Judge** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Over the last decade has our decline as one of the TOP clubs in the world been accompanied by an equivalent decline in the appreciation of good football by our fans ?

I raise this issue because it disturbs me to see how often in this forum we seem to blindly hurl abuse at other teams/players regardless of the quality of football they may play. I remember days when the Kop applauded visiting teams for the quality of their play even though the b'stards were ( very occaisionally) beating us . It seems to me that we have many fans who apparently support LFC but don't actually give a toss about good football .

Your thoughts please .

i think alot of the folk on here woof had never witnessed the greatness that was liverpool fc.

peoples attitudes change. we live in a world where appreciation takes a back seat. its all me, me, me, me, i, i, i, etc. so it comes as no surprise to hear some of the comments on here and in the newspapers etc.

it is right that history counts for nothing, but perhaps sometimes we must question the commitment of some players in terms of the honour it is to wear such an illustrious shirt and play in front of the KOP at Anfield.

money rules today, and so does image, so perhaps a re-think back to grassroots LFC philosophy is the answer. i dont know

i do know one thing, i will support LFC whether they win, lose or draw (prefer the former 1st word). It is an honour to supprt a great club and be involved with the best supporters in the world

walk on liverpool, and my hats off to all LFC fans worldwide, in liverpool and on this forum

cheers

by **Judge** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:42 pm

all the best aswell

by **JC_81** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:12 pm

jonnymac1979 wrote:It's not the point John. Nobody is happy when a goal goes in against us, I don't think he's saying that.

Do you recall the goal Barcelona (Overmars) scored in 2001-02 against us at Anfield. They strung about twenty passes together. I felt like throwing a brick through the telly but there was nothing that could be done about the goal.

You've just got to hold your hands up sometimes and say that it was one of those occasions when you have just witnessed football at it's purest.

I know what you're saying and i do remember that goal overmars put past us, and yes i can now appreciate how good it was looking back.

But my point is that at the time it happened (i wasn't at the game myself), it is the fans' job to lift the team when they concede a goal, not sit back and applaud the opponents.

After the game has passed you can appreciate the goal all you want.

It doesn't make me a thug to hold this view, its just what i think supporting a team is all about

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