Liverpool FC Forum

Arne is a decent manager and a lovely fella and whilst it would indeed be incredibly, incredibly harsh to sack anyone months after winning the prem it's also got to be said he's very lucky to still be in a job this morning.
This is not your run of the mill bad patch, this isn't a little bad spell, this is a prolonged run of incredibly poor form and incredibly poor performances which goes back to last March.... and btw....we are nearly in December! You wouldn't mind if there were a few green shoots of recovery but if anything things seem to be getting worse, we can't even draw games, it's L after L, the losses are fvcking piling up. 
I think Arne won the league last year for the exact same reason Arteta will probably win it this year i.e everyone else IS shooting themselves in the foot.
We had tough times under Jurgen but the German always found a way to get up off the canvas, indeed a lot of the most memorable moments of his tenure - Ally's header, the 4-0 against Barca, the 7-0 against United etc etc all came during tough times. How many times we we dust ourselves off from major disappointments like Kompany putting it in the top corner against Leicester or Karius's performance in Kiev or losing the league by 11 millimetres etc etc to really come out swinging the following season.
Plus Jurgen never had the resources available to him that this fella has, when the best defender in the world was out for a calender year the owners expected Jurgen to fill the Virgil sized whole in the team with Stephen Caulker and Matt Philips, not the current England CB.
The big difference between Jurgen and Arne is that Jurgen never stopped punching and kicking and scratching and biting, even at the end he didnt walk out of Anfield he was carried out on his shield, by leaving a title winning side behind and making his own leaving party about the next man in he showed he was still going to be fighting for this club even when he wasn't going to be here.
Arne by contrast looks like he's got no fight in him,  he looks like someone who's scared to make a decision, he looks a beaten man. The only thing that can save Arne now is Mark Guehi because the dutchman doesn't look capable of saving himself, even if Guehi did come would Arne have the balls to drop Virgil.
Jurgen was never beaten, he never gave up - ever.
Even on his way out of the door when i'm sure his life would have been easier to stay friends with everyone he had a big falling out with Mo.

My initial reaction to this humiliation was Arne out...

However- let's take a look at the bigger picture- Lots of new signings that simply haven't managed to play together very much never mind gel as a unit

Isak - no preseason then an injury
Frimpong - recovering from his second injury to date
Kerkez- young and needs to find his feet
Ekitike- shown that he has a bright future

ADDED to this is the long shadow cast by the tragic loss of Jota- which has to be taken into consideration. Some of his team mates were friends as well (see Robertson interview post Scotland qualifying) There is definitely a lingering effect on the team not to mention the management.

What we have to see despite the above is a reset- go back to the basics and pick fighters, grafters and those who can put their foot in - we need the opposition to know we are on the field and in their faces.

To that end i would drop Mo and Gakpo for now- they are simply not fit for purpose to steady the ship.

I would like the following XI starting for now


                  Allison

  Bradley   Gomez   VVD   Robbo

  Szob   Gravenberch     Jones

  Chiesa     Wirtz         Ekitike   

  with Wirtz/Ekitike interchanging throughout the match to keep the opposition guessing

Give the above team the next 3 games and see what happens.  Macca/ Isak /Salah/ Kerkez /Gakpo/Konate to be subbed on as necessary

If we don't see a radical uptick in performances and points on the board Slot should be sacked immediately

In a nutshell:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1378607103659042

Back to a recognisable Shankly/Paisley 4-4-2:

                   Allison

  Bradley   Gomez   VVD   Robbo

  Szob   Gravenberch  Wirtz   Jones

          Chiesa     Ekitike   


Subs: MacAllister and Isak.

Lack of pressing is key and we've become shyte at duels also. We can re arrange the side all we want but they'll still have the same mentality. I honestly don't think Slot knows how to fix this. 450M spend we should've bought the title with that amount, shame Klopp didn't get that much funds in one window to play with. Bringing Guehi won't solve sh1t until we change our mentality, strategy, tactics etc... We play like a lower tier team, hence why we are now bottom half of the table. If we keep faltering at this alarming rate, I'd hope for 2 new signings in Jan Guehi and a manager.

I agree, I've never seen a liverpool team lose so many duels. Gakpo and Gravenberch both pulled out of challenges that infuriated the crowd at one stage.

This midfield is so weak physically compared to the midfield of Hendo/Fabinho/Gini and Milner who fought and bled for the shirt. Ive always questioned Szoboszlai being weak in the duels and I still stand by that.. and Grav and Mac allister are just not playing anywhere near good enough and aren't protecting the defence at all.

Im now at the point of thinking Gravenberch had a fluke season last season.. hes always had a question mark over his confidence and commitment, and I think he looks half assed this season.

Arne could chop some of these lads in the next window, and I wouldn't blame him if he feels they are letting him down.


I think a proper CDM and a CB is a absolute must in January.. forget Semenyo for the time being.

The lack of fight is beyond concerning because if every team we meet from now until the end of the season drags us into the trenches and turns each game into a dogfight we'll be in serious trouble because none of our players can tackle a sausage dinner.
We could go down if that happens and i'm not even joking. We've lost 7 of our last 8 and are only 6 points clear of the team who are fourth to bottom. At first it was our away form which was the concern but we are getting pumped at home now too, In all my years watching footy don't think i've ever seen a team lose so many 50/50 tackles, we are literally weak as p1.ss. To think in the late 70's we had Graeme Souness, Jimmy Case and sometimes even Tommy Smith in the same side.

I think Slot underestimated how important physicality is in the Premier League. Before Klopp I recall us being the same, losing 50/50 duels, vulnerable from set-peices etc. Klopp from the start knew what to expect from this league and put a huge emphasis on physicality, while Slot fell for the trap that I think Rodgers also fell for, that is to believe that he can play some sort of Guardiola-esque football with little emphasis on physical players, grafters etc. The fact that Slot so easily sold the biggest fighters in our team, Diaz and Nunez, I think it's evidence of that.

Playing Guardiola like football is very nice and all but his style is the exception and not the rule for this league and if Slot doesn't understand that then it will be his downfall.

As did Maureen, Arteta has changed the PL and how teams play and it seems to now be the fashionable way to play and we aren’t equipped for it. It’s now about arrogent big players, extra physical, roughing up the keeper and set plays and lots of professional fouls and “dark arts”. The PL goes through phases where dominant teams are copied by other managers, they copied Maureen, Pep and even Klopp. The new style is physical, solid defense and set plays and it’s a shame as it’s boring to watch. I remember the Chelsea teams often winning 3-0 but all they did was defend and as the other team tries to pull a goal back they leave themselves exposed and end up conceding more. The team would win 3-0 and you’d say dominant performance but when you actually watch how the match played out it was tight until 50 minutes often hinged on a referee decision and boring to watch. Arsenal are now that team that is so solid defensively and that at some point they end up scoring due to a mistake and thus changing the game. It’s a shame as I loved the days of Klopp and Pep battling it out as the PL was more enjoyable to watch, most teams started playing open football.

I don’t really respect Arteta like I didn’t respect Maureen as it is the easiest thing for a manager to defend, if you spend near a billion pounds to make a defensive team you’ll win but won’t attract any neutral fans. They are so desperate to win it’s an obsession with them understandably and that is what it takes. He’ll win but won’t be remembered like Pep and Klopp, in spite of all his gimmicks.

As to us,we seem to have been blindsided by the direction the PL is going and it will be hard to correct as what we don’t have is big physical players and won’t for the foreseeable future. Maureen brought in low block defending and physicality, Klopp brought pressing, heavy metal football and graft (at least initially) pep brought control (and PL referees  ) and now Arteta become a  Maureen/Pep hybrid. Last year we controlled matches but this year we don’t seem able. We have won 6 and lost 6, talk about schizophrenia, we won our first 5 matches then lost the next 5 matches.

Honorable mention for PL referees as ultimately they will decide who wins this year.