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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby kazza » Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:51 am

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Postby kazza » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:53 am

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Postby kazza » Sat May 07, 2022 6:25 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10791029/Kings-transfer-market-Liverpool-manager-Jurgen-Klopp-built-squad-chase-quad.html

Obviously Klopp’s great eye for talent is huge but I think little mentioned is how he chooses professionalism, high work ethic, he seems to like religious players and he doesn’t like selfish players. There are many talented players but how many exhibit those other traits. I would bet that when Klopp scouts players he has done his due diligence on all those other traits. Sometimes the most talented player is not the best player and Klopp seems to be a master at seeing through filters.
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Postby kazza » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:47 am

“FSG and Klopp's salary structure is saving us from a massive money trap. The structure is smartly designed and fairer than most people think. I support it.
The trap works like this - Some clubs made it normal to pay every player as if they were Pele and Maradonna. Grealish takes 300k/week and sits on the bench. 45 million on Kalvin Phillips to sit next to him. Neymar buys a helicopter. Then Mbappe gets paid 960k/week. And then Bayern offers Mane 390k/week to play in league that they have won 10 times in a row.
If you chase these prices and start paying at these levels, you fall in the whirlpool. Because next year they will pay 400k/week to Declan Rice...and then 500k/week to Nkunku. And you will be bankrupt long before their bank balance even breaks a sweat.
Barcelona and Man United fell in this exact trap. In 5 years, they went from UCL contenders to Europa League. And in the same time we went from Europa League to UCL contenders with less than half their budget. Just trust your Football heritage, buy smart, nurture and coach your young talent and play hard...that's the smart way. The Liverpool way.”
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Postby Eagle » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:30 am

I can't find the quote now, but I recall in the early years of FSG's ownership Henry couldn't understand why we were paying out so much in wages when the team were failing and not getting in the Champions League. It's well known that we moved to a more incentivised wage scheme which is linked to revenue coming in, primarily from the Champions League. Over the last few years our total wage bill has been amongst the top 5/6 in the world so the idea we don't pay big wages doesn't stack up.

Using Salah as an example. The following is quoting Forbes so would not have been plucked out of thin air: https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/09/m ... world/amp/

The No. 11 is already the Reds’ top earner, reportedly bringing in a basic weekly wage of around £200,000,


He is said to be on course to earn £18.3 million in wages and bonuses in 2021/22, or around £350,000 a week,
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Postby kazza » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:22 am

Obviously a much better model for the team. We keep our wages in check and pay up when we earn the money from winning things. Manure stay in trouble as long as they have at least one player making 400/500per week, they are in a cycle that won’t be easy to fix except they fill the team with kids.
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Postby UvS xR4GEx » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:23 pm

I'm embarrassed I even questioned the structure and FSG as a whole. I was under the impression they weren't backing Klopp and the team enough... but the club is so well run. Players like Mane and Salah can demand big wages, but the club is bigger than any individual, and anyone is replaceable.
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Postby damjan193 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:34 pm

The incentives and bonuses for our players are so big that I really wonder what it is they're asking for when they demand a better salary. Earn more while underperforming? How do they present their case in front of the owners? "Hey boss, I want as much as Grealish is getting.""You're already getting as much as him.""Yeah, but he gets to goof around while I have to actually earn my money".
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Postby kazza » Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:06 am

Liverpool FC
FSG transfer reality becomes clear as Liverpool set for £115m boost
Liverpool are predicted to post record revenues for the 2021/22 financial period and FSG's next moves will be key to immediate future

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ByDave Powell
09:27, 6 SEP 2022
SPORT

Liverpool and FSG principal owner John Henry (Image: Getty Images)
Last season for Liverpool was something of a strange one. Fighting on all four fronts until the very last day, the quadruple was within their grasp it seemed. Having bagged both the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup, a Champions League final and Premier League title shootout with Manchester City stood between the Reds and footballing immortality.

But defeat in Paris to Real Madrid in European football's most prized club event, and City overturning a 2-0 deficit against Aston Villa in the final 15 minutes of their Premier League season in May meant that Liverpool ended up being so near yet so far, a season that was on the cusp of greatness ended being just a great season.

The impact of the on-pitch success last season had a positive effect on club finances. According to a report published on Monday by renowned football finance website Off The Pitch, the Reds are forecast to make £602m in turnover when they publish their financials early next year for the 2021/22 financial period that ended at the end of May. It is a forecast rise of some £115m from the £487m that turnover that was posted earlier in the year for the significantly pandemic-affected 2020/21 accounting period.


Having posted more than £50m in losses through the two years of Covid, £4.8m of that in 2020/21, the Reds are predicted to have a pre-tax profit of around £76m, a club record.


While the numbers are forecasts from Off The Pitch, the expected rise in revenues can be attributed to a number of factors, one of the key ones being the return of fans to games for a full season that is set to see matchday revenues rise from £3.7m to £89.7m compared to the previous year, while a host of new commercial deals mean that revenues on that side of the business are predicted to rise from £217.6m to £241.2m year on year.

Wages for the 2021/22 financial year are expected to increase slightly from the £314m that it stood at in the last accounts, the payroll rising to similar levels of the 2019/20 season where the wage bill ballooned due to bonus payments for winning the Champions League. The next set of financial results won't include the new deal for Mohamed Salah or arrival of Darwin Nunez on the wage bill with both deals concluded after the end of the 2021/22 reporting period.

The projected £115m will will also have been aided in one key aspect that cannot be controlled but can certainly be aided by the ownership of Fenway Sports Group - the success on the pitch.

Finishing second in the Premier League last season delivered around £50.4m from their merit payment, around £3m less than winners Manchester City and £5m higher than third placed Tottenham Hotspur for 2021/22.

Winning the FA Cup and Carabao Cup contributed around £6m to the pot, the extra games in the competition meaning more opportunities to earn matchday revenues.

That is the same for the Champions League, the competition where Liverpool have achieved much success in recent years. Reaching the final last year, through prize money and other associated revenues, mean that the club will have delivered around the £100m mark for the season. Factoring in more games and more matchday revenues, and more scope for a slice of the broadcast pie, made it a hugely lucrative journey, even if the final hurdle couldn't be cleared.

The significance of Champions League success to Liverpool and the more self sustaining business model that is adopted under FSG cannot be underestimated.

The competition has enormous value to the club financially and any inability to make the top four or early exit in the group stages can have a significant impact on the balance sheet for the following year, and given that revenues have to underpin investment that can have a knock on effect on the ability to spend.

FSG have come in for some criticism in recent times over their lack of spend in the summer window, the addition of Nunez offset in no small part by the exits of the likes of Sadio Mane, Neco Williams, Takumi Minamino, Marko Grujic and Ben Davies. While fans had hoped for a major midfield addition the club's pursuit of Aurelien Tchouameni ended with him going to Real Madrid while Borussia Dortmund have been clinging grimly to Jude Bellingham to maintain him for one more season in

The stuttering start for Liverpool has led to more questions, with injuries to key performers like Thiago Alcantara only serving to make the calls ring louder for spend from the owners on midfield re-inforcements.

Back home in the US, FSG have struggles to contend with at their other major sporting team, the Boston Red Sox. The Major League Baseball team have been poor this season and similar questions have been levelled at FSG by Red Sox fans over a lack of investment in big players. The difference for FSG in Boston is that a bad season can be rectified the following year, the slate is almost wiped clean with some smart decision making behind the scenes. In Liverpool there is no such safety net, a bad season has the potentially to be extremely damaging in the longer term, whether that is through missed revenues against rising wage bills or through player targets choosing to ply their trade in the Champions League.

Football clubs are businesses in the modern age, no matter how unpalatable that sounds. The huge payroll obligations to players and staff have to be met somehow, as do the exorbitant transfer fees that are now commonplace in the market. A strong business ensures growth, and for Liverpool the two things are more closely entwined than they are at some of their rivals.

Champions League football is the minimum expectation of the Reds now, but with their rivals spending there will have to be an element of a business decision when it comes to January, or more likely next summer, over significant investment in the window, a window when the opportunity won't be there to cash in on a large amount of high-value player sales due to the lack of viable options available to them to move on at a big fee.


Last season and the positive impact on the balance sheet highlights the importance of sustained success at the highest level for Liverpool. Reaching the final of every competition every season may be a tough ask but ensuring that they are in the conversation in the latter stages for every competition is now an expectation, and one that requires investment for quality and squad depth.

The Reds have significant room to manoeuvre when it comes to additions next summer, but in order to ensure that they are protecting their growing business into the next five years and beyond there will have to be a major spend on key areas in order to maintain their position of strength both on and off the field.

Healthy financial figures are something that should be applauded, football on the whole should be making a more concerted effort at the top level to operate sustainably. But for any successful business there is the need for significant investment to aid a longer term plan, for Liverpool that is fast approaching.

Ownership at Liverpool did an admirable job in mitigating the impact of the pandemic at a time when some of the biggest clubs in the business faced ruin and have had to sell the family silver to survive. The 2021/22 financial period will be the first set of accounts seen that show football moving past Covid and into normality once more. For FSG, an ownership group that has been seen as risk averse, maybe they are still operating on the side of caution. But with normal service well and truly resumed there will be a heightened expectation to spend next summer, there can be few excuses on that front.
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Postby red till i die!! » Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:20 am

That extra money isnt sustainable as last seasons run is not something that happens often. There is no guarantee that that 70+ in profit is going into the team either as it could be used to cover the losses during covid or swallowed up into the wage figure as bonuses. Chances are that we will get a percentage of it and that could bring us close to having 18 or 20 million net next season.

We needed better investment this season rather than a load of excuses. Tchouameni fooked us off in early June and we didnt bother with anyone else. We want to wait for Bellingham which is another cop out as who is to say he wont melt if  Madrid come calling or he has the chance to hook up with Haalaand again at City. We wont pay the money they will so its stupid to believe we will win his signature if there is competition and there will be.

The competition has enormous value to the club financially and any inability to make the top four or early exit in the group stages can have a significant impact on the balance sheet for the following year, and given that revenues have to underpin investment that can have a knock on effect on the ability to spend.


Then there is this /\. If we have a bad season we will pay the price and there will be F all invested as they wont take the risk. Bear in mind we will have a lot of work to do next season as we have a few out of contract and another few who need replacing. Keita, Bobby, Milner and Ox out on Bosmans, Hendo and Thiago a year older and will be less reliable. Matip and Van Dijk will also be 32 which isnt a problem really until they are expected to play 50+ games. Not saying we should sell at all but they are aging so leaves us with a lot of work to do in the next 2 years.

We took a few gambles this season by relying on certain players which has cost us the start we are accustomed to. I want to say we will get it together and push city all the way again but I doubt we will as there is more competition this year.
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Postby redshade » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:17 am

If United had Klopp I can guarantee you guys they would be consistently competing City with a quality squad. They hate their owners but at least they spend money and try to build the squad. We were on top of the world and continued to drain and deplete the lads in our squad. Bottom line, it is a business for FSG and they've made a hell of a profit with the success Klopp has got them.
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Postby kazza » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:45 am

I’m not sure we should use ManUre’s owners as a template. They are just placating the fans with “glory” purchases  while they rape and run that club into the ground, their stadium and training facilities are run down for modern football. Only owners that would be good in this day and age are public wealth fund owners that have a whole county’s wealth behind them, and it’s more about the profile than balancing books, those are all taken in Newcastle, PSG and City, no others have the muscle. Still….. time will tell in the long run if those leave more than they take. Being a sensibly run club is never going to be a hindrance long term other than not adding trophies to the cabinet.

Problem is we were the best club in the world and now we are not. We certainly over achieved in the current climate and we ended up feeling it was normal, it’s not though, it is extraordinary to do what we did being outspent as we were. Owners could have spent more but they have been consistently improving the club off the field and all without huge debt.

To be fair, it has been a freakish year with injuries. Last year we missed out on the unprecedented quadruple by a whisker, could anyone have foreseen how bad we have been this year. Blame the owners by all means for not making sure we had a world class midfielder which we needed but the players have all under performed bar Allison. Is is the worst I have seen VVD, Hendo, Salah, Jota, Gomez, Fabinho, Milner   since they came and others have been average.
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Postby Reg » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:56 am

From yesterday's team that lost to Forest:

Milner 36 years old, Hendo 32, Bobby 31, VVD 31,  Mo 30,  Fabinho 29, Ox 29. 

7 players 29 or older, average age 31. (Thiago didn't play, he's also 31) Keita wasn't there because he's a dud.

It's got to be clear now that if it wasn't for Klopp the owners wouldn't have won anything in the last few years, they've run this team into the ground.

We have to do a major squad rebuild rather than an annual 'adjustment'.  Really miffed.
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Postby UvS xR4GEx » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:25 pm

Alot of reports going around that FSG have put the club up for sale. I think they've realised they've took us as far as they can and if we don't reach the UCL for next season the club will devalue.
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Postby red till i die!! » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:41 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liverp ... 449645.amp

Appears to be true!!  Have to say I'm shocked.
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