Liverpool FC Forum

by **damjan193** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:52 pm

I wanted to make a post about Enrique being too underrated here but I didn't want to take all the ***** since I thought I was the only one who rated him.

He is a very good defender (far better than Johnson). People tend to forget that this is the primary job of a fullback.

He is also good with linking with the strikers (IMO).

If you think that Enrique constantly runs into blind alleys then what can be said about Johnson? Johnson is a prime example of how you shouldn't waste possession. He is a very selfish player at times and he's a fullback!

I agree about his crossing though, it's mainly Sh*t. But he does find Suarez sometimes with those deep hoof long-balls and we make a chance and even score a goal sometimes. It's usually 1 in a 100 but it works

.

by **kazza** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:20 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:56 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:33 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:27 am wrote:
He's the second best full back in England and I can't quite believe there are sections of our own who don't rate the lad. I find it bizarre to be honest.

Don't think I'd put him at "second best full back in England" but do agree with the rest of your post.

Massively underrated, he's strong, determined and with the ball at his feet show's skill that some out and out attacking players would envy.

So what if he's not the best crosser of a ball ? Some people bang on as if it's the only option once he's pushed forward and he lacks a football brain

The fella knows exactly what he's doing, it's unfortunate that some of the team and fans aren't on the same wavelength.

The only full back in the league i'd take over him is Baines due to the fact his dead balls can win you a game. I certainly wouldn't take the hugely over rated Cole, Clichy, Evra, Gibbs, Kolorhov or whoever Spurs decide to play their and I wouldn't say Shaw has matured as a player yet so its hard to say whether he does have that level of ability... but having seen him two or three times it really wouldn't suprise me. (He does however run like a gimp and makes Henderson's running style look natural).

I find it laughable that people question his game intelligence to be honest. His passing and vision are superb and his link up play is quality. He knows when to hold and when to release. Its a shame that others in the squad aren't on the same wave length as you said. Its funny how most of his best link up play comes with Coutinho and Suarez who's strengths are also these attributes... Enrique thinks about his passes, he doesn't just punt it forward, he tries to play passes into space and onto runners which helps build momentum.

What I like about him in comparrison to Johnson is he doesn't do the brain dead stuff that the majority of idiotic fans think is "dead good".

I'm on about the sort of things that result in nothing.... Like putting in aimless dead crosses that go to no-one, and ask 5'8 strikers to beat 6'3 defenders in the air from standing jumps, I always find it extremely annoying when people say "great ball" when its an aimless cross that you're never going to score from... There is a difference in a dangerous ball and a aimless cross.Also he doesn't shoot on his weaker foot from 25 yards, or try the most ridiculous through ball that comes off once a season. The amount of times when you're at the game the muppets all say "oh that nearly a great ball by Johnson" because he's kicked yet another ball out for a goal kick by trying a Zidane like through ball from 18 yards gets right up my nose. Its not a good ball, its never on, stop f*cking trying it!!!!

He's extremely composed on the ball and generally when he gets the ball in the eighteen yard box, his intelligence and ability to play and think generates goals. There has been plenty of occassions in his career where he's got into the box and he's bought his team mates time to support the play by playing a one two, or holding the ball up in the right areas allowing numbers to get forward. The one on the other side just loses it or plays a nothing ball.

Alot of people are of the "get it forward" mentallity" and "kick him hard" and "lets get stuck in". I think they fail to realise that there is alot more to the game than lumping it, kicking lumps out of people and "getting it forwards".

You tend to find the people who like that sort of mentality doesn't understand Barcelona's style of football, use cliches like "such and such" does the dirty work no-one sees (that everyone can see) and generally judge players on how fast they run or how big they are.

Remember Glenn Hoddle? A hugely talented footballer with supreme technical skills and a great football brain. Platini at the time said that if Hoddle was French then France would have won the World Cup. His nickname in England was Glenda as he couldn't tackle :laugh:

Football in England has moved on alot since then and especially since the start of the prem when alot more foreign players came in, but there is still an element of that around. Probably why we have not won the WC since 66. If you have done the FA's level I or level II coaching badge you will find that the drills are primarily fitness drills rather than technical drills. If you did the Brazilian or Spanish equivilent you will find it is much more about technical improvement.

by **Stu the Red** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:50 pm

kazza » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:20 pm wrote:Remember Glenn Hoddle? A hugely talented footballer with supreme technical skills and a great football brain. Platini at the time said that if Hoddle was French then France would have won the World Cup. His nickname in England was Glenda as he couldn't tackle

Football in England has moved on alot since then and especially since the start of the prem when alot more foreign players came in, but there is still an element of that around. Probably why we have not won the WC since 66. If you have done the FA's level I or level II coaching badge you will find that the drills are primarily fitness drills rather than technical drills. If you did the Brazilian or Spanish equivilent you will find it is much more about technical improvement.

Unfotunately I'm unable to comment on Hoddle as I wasn't old enough to see him play.

What I will say is there is always a balance... the drills are primarily aimed at kids anyway and I do question coaches who put "skill style" drills on for premier league standard players over the age of 22 (ish).... It makes no sense what so ever.

I Also think alot of people from this country fail to realise that. In the professional game there are so many close minded individuals its frightening. Hence the reason the national team is currently in the state that it is. The most important aspect of the game is (excluding the basics) is obviously tactical. Its a team game, that is whats most important.

People from England seem to think "the English way is right" and thats it. Well I'm sorry, but the stats say otherwise. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not basing a complete arguement on weak stats. But by the same token, to completely ignore them and dismiss them when they indicate something is naive. The key is compromise. What people need to get out of their head is when they see a full back trying a ten yard pass instead of an aimless "get it forward" style hoof... its not always the wrong thing to do. A lack of brains is the aimless hoof, not a pass inside to a midfielder.

Because of the current 4-2-3-1 fad or 4-3-3 (whatever you want to call it) full backs are in the least congested area's of the pitch these days. They are usually the players with the most time on the ball and the ones that generally help a midfield issue control and help establish possession.

In Enrique we have one of the best in the league and I think its about time people got off his back and stopped looking for sticks to beat him with.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:04 pm

the criticism of hoddle was valid at the time, back in the day `getting stuck in` was a big part of the game, good teams and players could easily be bullied out of games and thats why most teams had at least one or two players who could look after themselves (and their team mates).
hard tackles were part of footballs DNA from the start and the game was like that for over a century, it`s only in the last 20 years or so that football has become far less physical.
i think it`s no coincidence that as transfer fee`s started to go through the roof that the game became softer, i think the clubs pushed for it because they didnt want to spend £20m+ on a player to see him ruled out for a season or worse because of a bad tackle.

by **Stu the Red** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:45 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:04 pm wrote: back in the day `getting stuck in` was a big part of the game, good teams and players could easily be bullied out of games and thats why most teams had at least one or two players who could look after themselves (and their team mates).
hard tackles were part of footballs DNA from the start and the game was like that for over a century, it`s only in the last 20 years or so that football has become far less physical.
i think it`s no coincidence that as transfer fee`s started to go through the roof that the game became softer, i think the clubs pushed for it because they didnt want to spend £20m+ on a player to see him ruled out for a season or worse because of a bad tackle.

Deleted the Hoddle bit for reasons stated above.

I can, to an extent, see your point and very slightly agree with you. There were alot more out an out thugs years ago. Thats where I believe the game has changed for the better. The tackling rules are different now, but to suggest that these lads go in like pansy's is simply not true.

Make no mistake, they still kick lumps out of each other. I'm not a fan or using youtube, but when you watch video's of Messi, Zidane and the brazilian Ronaldo you can clearly see defenders trying to hack them off their feet. The only real difference is they are only trying to flatten them these days rather than break their legs. There are plenty of clips of people taking air shots at Zidane and Messi simply because they can't get near them.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:15 pm

honestly stu, what the likes of zidane etc had to put up with was nothing to what the likes of maradona and george best had to cope with.
look at this clip about steve mcmahon from the infamous vinny jones video from years ago, look at those tackles, not one yellow card was shown there, these days there would be reds galore, getting stuck in was just part of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taZHqz4yU4

back in the 80`s older fans who watched the game in the 50`s and 60`s thought the game had gone soft even back then!

by **Kenny Kan** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:49 pm

woof woof ! » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:09 pm wrote:Too much information Stu .

by **Homebooby** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:37 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:15 am wrote:honestly stu, what the likes of zidane etc had to put up with was nothing to what the likes of maradona and george best had to cope with.
look at this clip about steve mcmahon from the infamous vinny jones video from years ago, look at those tackles, not one yellow card was shown there, these days there would be reds galore, getting stuck in was just part of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taZHqz4yU4

back in the 80`s older fans who watched the game in the 50`s and 60`s thought the game had gone soft even back then!

Funny how your perceptions change. Back in the day watching this type of tackle was totally run of the mill and you thought nothing of it. I found myself wincing every single time and thinking, man, what a dirty bar steward.......ah...the good old days when me back did what it was supposed to

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Homebooby » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:37 am wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:15 am wrote:honestly stu, what the likes of zidane etc had to put up with was nothing to what the likes of maradona and george best had to cope with.
look at this clip about steve mcmahon from the infamous vinny jones video from years ago, look at those tackles, not one yellow card was shown there, these days there would be reds galore, getting stuck in was just part of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taZHqz4yU4

back in the 80`s older fans who watched the game in the 50`s and 60`s thought the game had gone soft even back then!

Funny how your perceptions change. Back in the day watching this type of tackle was totally run of the mill and you thought nothing of it. I found myself wincing every single time and thinking, man, what a dirty bar steward.......ah...the good old days when me back did what it was supposed to

i`m the same mate, as you say back then i didnt blink an eyelid when the likes of mcmahon, reid, whiteside, hurlock, pearce etc kicked lumps out of each other but if someone put one of those tackles in on say coutinho today i`d be going fv#king nuts at the ref screaming for him to send the b@stard off!

by **woof woof !** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:03 pm

Remember when a "tackle" from behind was legal ?

When they banned it some players, their nick names alone explain their preferred style of play, renowned hard men like our own Tommy "the Anfield Iron" Smith, Leeds' Norman "Bite yer Legs" Hunter and Chelsea's "Chopper" Harris had to be sent for special training which basically involved showing them the difference between a football and somebody's leg.

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