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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Pig Catcher » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:38 pm

heimdall » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:16 pm wrote:FSG have bullshitted us and leveraged the club with the banks exactly like twit and tw@t did.


Quite simply that is factually incorrect. The club only owe the bank £23.1m and owe FSG £64.1m. The money owed to FSG is interest free and either the club will pay it back in instalments over the coming years (8m was paid back last year), the owners will be paid back as part of any takeover deal, or less likely they will convert it into equity.
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Postby Pig Catcher » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:41 pm

Reg » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:43 pm wrote:A lot of that 9 million was paying off Joe fecking Cole.


Any pay off given to Joe Cole will be included in accounts released next year. Pay offs covered in these accounts include Dalglish, Steve Clarke, Comolli, Brukner and players who left between 1st August 2011 - 31st May 2012.
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Postby Pig Catcher » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:45 pm

Benny The Noon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:43 pm wrote:
Reg » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:16 pm wrote:We've assumed 80 million of debt with feck all to show for it. Again.


Loans from the owners to allow money to be spent on player purchases


The initial £30m FSG loaned the club was assigned to “cash flow”, which I assume meant transfers. The second loan in August 2012 of £46.8m was used to reduce our bank debt, which will save us money on interest payments.
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Postby parchpea » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:53 pm

I thought they made us debt free when they purchased the club but clearly that was not these case. Appears they don't have money to put in so are running up debts to keep it going. However its borrowed LFC will be paying it back, probably in transfers out, as doubt the shareholders will take it of their own bank accounts.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:36 pm

parchpea » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:53 pm wrote:I thought they made us debt free when they purchased the club but clearly that was not these case. Appears they don't have money to put in so are running up debts to keep it going. However its borrowed LFC will be paying it back, probably in transfers out, as doubt the shareholders will take it of their own bank accounts.

We were never debt free after the takeover
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:13 pm

heimdall » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:16 pm wrote:I hope the Arabs looking to buy Arsenal take a look at us when they get rebuffed, we need some serious money invested into the club or we are destined for midtable obscurity. FSG have bullshitted us and leveraged the club with the banks exactly like twit and tw@t did.


Simply put - no they haven't you ill informed plankton.
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Postby devaney » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:43 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:36 pm wrote:
parchpea » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:53 pm wrote:I thought they made us debt free when they purchased the club but clearly that was not these case. Appears they don't have money to put in so are running up debts to keep it going. However its borrowed LFC will be paying it back, probably in transfers out, as doubt the shareholders will take it of their own bank accounts.

We were never debt free after the takeover


£50m of the debt was down to massive architectural new stadium design fees that were rolled over with the purchase and the cost of sacking Rafa and Hodgson. The increase in the debt in the last accounts is more than likely down to some clever  accounting to avoid paying tax rather than an actual loss.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby Reg » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:23 am

Liverpool plan to keep star striker Luis Suarez at Anfield despite annual loss of £87.2m

Liverpool insist they are under no financial pressure to sell star assets such as Luis Suarez, despite announcing an increase in club debts to £87.2 million.

By Chris Bascombe
04 Mar 2013

The accounting period from Aug 2011 until May 2012 showed a rise in liabilities of £21.8 million at Anfield, underlining the challenge facing a club desperate to force their way back into the European elite.

Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre said lack of Champions League football, allied to expensive transfers and the cost accrued from high-profile staff departures such as ex-manager Kenny Dalglish, contributed to the losses.

He refuted any suggestion financial pressures would impact on player sales. “We won’t be selling anyone because of the financial position,” Ayre said. “If we’re selling anyone it’ll be because they are deemed by the manager to be surplus to his requirements and obviously if that happens we will be replacing them and bringing new players in as we always do.

“There’s no panic on our part, far from it. We feel we are making progress. Our aspiration for the next couple of years, as the rules will dictate, is to break even and then to make a profit beyond that.

“The recent rules that we’ve adopted at the Premier League will expect people to break even and limit their spending and player wages. We’ve been a big advocate in pushing for that so we’re certainly not going to fall foul of it.”

The accounts revealed how owners Fenway Sports Group secured a £120 million refinancing of credit facilities in September 2011 with the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of America and Barclays.

Ayre said this arrangement bore no resemblance to the “crippling” loans and interest fees arranged under previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr. Ayre explained £120 million in credit facilities was agreed to ensure finance was available as and when required.

“Just to be clear, it’s not a loan,” Ayre said. “It’s money that’s there if we need to use it, so it’s not debt in the true sense that it’s been spent. It’s not like a loan. It’s a facility like an overdraft. If we are utilising it then we are paying some interest, but if we’re not utilising it or using a small portion then we’re paying little interest.

“The numbers we were facing in terms of interest payments in the past [under Hicks and Gillett] are well documented and this is nothing like that, far from it. It’s not crippling our business like it was at that time.

“We’ve got a really healthy debt structure which is allowing us to continue to invest in the club overall which has been shown by our investment in players, in staff and in infrastructure.”

Despite the debt increase, Liverpool’s annual pre-tax loss fell from £49.3 million to £40.5 million. FSG has also injected £46.8 million into the club via a non-interest loan, which they could turn into equity if necessary. There is no doubt FSG feel they remain in a period of repairing damage they partly inherited, and also accentuated with an initial, unsuccessful spending spree.

It cost £9.5 million to pay off Dalglish, Damien Comolli and various other members of the coaching staff as they paid the price for failing to return on that initial investment. With Liverpool recently shown to be the top of the agents’ fees table, too, cutting down on such wasted expenditure is a priority, as is finding a solution to the long-standing stadium issue.

“We have to manage in a responsible way,” Ayre said. “That doesn’t mean we won’t invest, but we will try to invest carefully and find the right deals. I would draw attention to January when we did some good business for the club and got two great players.”
++

Here's the bit that stands out for me:
FSG has also injected £46.8 million into the club via a non-interest loan, which they could turn into equity if necessary.

It doesn't get much better than that, that's verging on sugar-daddy land - I don't understand why folks continue to moan about our owners.
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Postby ethanr » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:49 am

Wait... You mean to tell me that in the period between August of 2011, and May of 2012, when we went through two transfer windows in which we greatly increased our wage bill with the addition of Carroll, Suarez, Downing, Enrique, Adam, Hendo, Doni, Coates, and Bellamy and spent about £40 million more than we recouped from transfers, we lost £21.3 million pounds?  :help

Well aren't we in a large heap of trouble then? I can't believe we lost £21.3 million during our clubs largest spending spree (not sure if that's accurate) FSG directly said they wanted to raise the wage bill when they took over so that they could get some good players in.  Part of their strategy was to increase the wage bill, then after a period of time decrease it when we stabilized.  That is what they have done.  We raised the wage bill, and now we're decreasing it because we're starting to get a solid staff and squad, where we want to be.  I'm shocked at how big a deal they're making of this...  City and Chelsea both have lost more in that time I'm sure, and United have debts over £720 million, but of course our £80 million debt is clearly much worse..  The fact that we're redeveloping our stadium just adds to costs.  Obviously FSG aren't going to front ever pound they want to spend.  Part of being an investor is knowing when to spend your own cash on an investment (usually more liquid-based assets) and when to borrow from the bank because you know the interest rate you can get is lower than the interest you earn back on your own cash.  You have your liquid-based assets available if you need them, otherwise they sit and back you a lot more cash. FSG knows they can make more money on their money with different investments, so they borrow from the bank because the investment will be more profitable in the long-run, which anybody who has spent half a year in a business program at a university could tell you without thinking twice. 

I'm sorry, this whole thing is just f*cking retarded.  Anybody upset about this needs to stop listening to the media and think for themselves for once.
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Postby devaney » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:27 am

Excellent post Ethanr
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby The Good Yank » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 am

Just a quick question.  In this supposed 80+ million in debt, does that include the intrest free 46.8 mill from the owners?  If so, What's the fuss about?
s@int - 13 December 2009

I won't celebrate Rafa going........ but I will be over the moon if Dalglish comes in. League within 2 years if he gets the job, AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THAT.
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Postby Reg » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:24 am

I'm no accountant mate however I suspect that interest free loan is an internal arrangement to increase shareholder capital to enable them to secure the £120 million refinancing credit facility. With increased nett worth they can raise more working capital lines (cash to run the club) plus the required long term finance to rebuild the stadium. They probably just needed to beef up the numbers.
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Postby OneHotRed » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:55 pm

Its basically the media saying "Looooook - SUAREZ IS GOING TO LEAVE COS THEY ARE SKINT HAHAHAHAHAHA SCOUSERS WE GOT YOU!!!"

When basically the story should be angled at the fact FSG are actually doing a very VERY good f*cking job for this club and anyone who starts shouting "Yanks out, THEY HATE US AND PUT US IN DEBT" need to STFU as that would be proof they know actually f*ck all about anything and its a suprise they can breath without constant coaching.
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Postby Reg » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:13 am

Well said mate, you're last point about the owners is spot on.
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Postby eds » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:56 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-only-1768485

Not sure if this is true BUT if it is, time to ask the owners to give us back our keys and f**k off back to the US.  :veryangry

20 million is nowhere near enough to getting any talent these days.......  :no
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