NESV - OUR NEW OWNERS - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby eds » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 am

kartiek » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:41 am wrote:I don't know what all the moaning is about.

You can't just run anything forever if you can't get the money to run it.

Anyway, FSG have already spent

7 - Brendan and team
5 - Kenny and team sack
11 - borini
15 - allen

outlay -
kuyt - 0.8
aquilani - 2 or 3?

So FSG's net spend for this summer is 35 million. You can't argue with that for gods' sake. Need some calming down here.

You spend what you can earn. You don't live outside your means - . That's true for your home, and it's true for liverpool fc.


We haven't signed Allen yet.  :D
"LIVERPOOL: 6 European Cups, 20 Domestic Titles, 3 UEFA Cups, 8 FA Cups, 10 League Cups and 4 European Super Cups and 1 Club World Championship

All other English clubs pale into insignificance!"
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Postby Reg » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:43 am

We haven't signed Allen yet.  :D


He was at the game last night and has his medical today.
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Postby maguskwt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:43 pm

Reg » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:04 am wrote:
Kenny Kan » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:44 am wrote:
parchpea » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm wrote:I think these guys came in with big ideas but soon as it dawned it isnt that easy and it might
cost a few bob the wallet has been shut tight and aint coming out any day soon either.

Comments like do whatever it takes to return the club to the top of English football have been
replaced by 'strategic approach' and gripes about flaunting fair play rules, which they seem to
have been misguided about from the start.

Hope I am wrong and Fenway can get it going but unless they can attract an investor to share
the load soon I can see them bailing and putting it up or sale down the lines.

Liverpool is big beast to handle from overseas and I would guess its a lot of trouble for little
profit or sporting gain for them.

good post, agree entirely that they use words like strategic approach and other business like words too much when talking about a football club. I understand it is a business but it does seem to be snuffing out the goals and achievements of the sport.


Guys, you can't go into denial. Every football club has a business plan and strategy, just because our owners talk about it doesn't make it dirty or make them into money mad ogres, they're trying to include the fans in their decision making process. Citech and Chavski don't talk about money because its not an issue for them, Manure are a well sorted business (except their debt level and we're been there before) with access to funds, LFC need a plan and to live within our means.

Everything the guy talks about makes sense, its just that he talks boardroom language whereas you guys only want to hear about the changing room.

I like these owners' they're focused on getting us back into shape then taking it from there. Greece is bust because they spent money they didn't have, LFC can't fall into the same trap.


How much are they paying you Reg :p
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Postby Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:17 am

Updated gross/net transfer spends since NESV took over (2009/2010)

Liverpool ~ £171m / £52m
Arsenal ~ £127m / £5m
Man U  ~ £120m / -£8m
Newcastle ~£40m / -£38m
Spurs ~ £85m / £0.25m
Man C ~ £370m / £270m
Chelsea ~ £300m / £250m
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Postby Penguins » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:13 am

True, just think the money has ben spent extremely poorly.
Some inherited problems but all these sackings and hirings of managers and overpaying on players right left and centers
is tough to witness.
When was the last time we made a shrewd signing like Hyppia, Alonso, Reina, Agger, Skrtel etc that cost little and was just class?
Now we spend 15+ like it is going in fashion. and all of them hasn't been worth close to that.
I like Joe Allen but was it really wise to spend all that money in that area of the field when we have a billion cms?
Shelvey, Adam, Henderson and Spearing are all cms and we now have Lucas, Gerrard and Allen in a midfield 3 already.
Why not sell a few of them?
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:46 pm

Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:17 am wrote:Updated gross/net transfer spends since NESV took over (2009/2010)

Liverpool ~ £171m / £52m
Arsenal ~ £127m / £5m
Man U  ~ £120m / -£8m
Newcastle ~£40m / -£38m
Spurs ~ £85m / £0.25m
Man C ~ £370m / £270m
Chelsea ~ £300m / £250m


that doesnt tell the whole story though, according to people who follow these things closely before this summer the owners had broke about even because they had cut the wage bill by £30m.
they have probably saved a fair few quid since then as well because quite a few behind the scene`s staff like comoli etc have gone too.
according to those in the know the owners bought us at an incredibly low price as well (though admittedly £300m and a ton of debt doesnt sound like a low price to me but what i know about finance you could write on the back of a ciggy packet)
fsg arent throwing money at the problem like abramovitic but thats what that list would suggest.
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Postby maguskwt » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:40 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:46 am wrote:
Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:17 am wrote:Updated gross/net transfer spends since NESV took over (2009/2010)

Liverpool ~ £171m / £52m
Arsenal ~ £127m / £5m
Man U  ~ £120m / -£8m
Newcastle ~£40m / -£38m
Spurs ~ £85m / £0.25m
Man C ~ £370m / £270m
Chelsea ~ £300m / £250m


that doesnt tell the whole story though, according to people who follow these things closely before this summer the owners had broke about even because they had cut the wage bill by £30m.
they have probably saved a fair few quid since then as well because quite a few behind the scene`s staff like comoli etc have gone too.
according to those in the know the owners bought us at an incredibly low price as well (though admittedly £300m and a ton of debt doesnt sound like a low price to me but what i know about finance you could write on the back of a ciggy packet)
fsg arent throwing money at the problem like abramovitic but thats what that list would suggest.


If the owners are able to cut the wage bill and at the same time improve the team, that means they would have done a tremendous job... Most high wages are being paid to older squad players who aren't even starters like Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy. It makes sense to replace them with younger talented players. After all we can't go on forever with these older players forever... It's time for rebuilding...
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Postby Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:54 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:46 am wrote:
Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:17 am wrote:Updated gross/net transfer spends since NESV took over (2009/2010)

Liverpool ~ £171m / £52m
Arsenal ~ £127m / £5m
Man U  ~ £120m / -£8m
Newcastle ~£40m / -£38m
Spurs ~ £85m / £0.25m
Man C ~ £370m / £270m
Chelsea ~ £300m / £250m


that doesnt tell the whole story though, according to people who follow these things closely before this summer the owners had broke about even because they had cut the wage bill by £30m.
they have probably saved a fair few quid since then as well because quite a few behind the scene`s staff like comoli etc have gone too.
according to those in the know the owners bought us at an incredibly low price as well (though admittedly £300m and a ton of debt doesnt sound like a low price to me but what i know about finance you could write on the back of a ciggy packet)
fsg arent throwing money at the problem like abramovitic but thats what that list would suggest.


It would naive of us to think that NESV are the only owners who know how to run a business  :eyebrow  (Chelsea, Man C, PSG not included ofcourse).

This list doesn't suggest that our owners are throwing money around. It is quite clear that the likes of City and Chelsea have been throwing money around (big differences in net spend in case you didn't notice!). Most of the other clubs around us in league position have been very prudent in their transfer spending and at the same time have out-performed us.

The player wage budget was never an issue for us and we are offloading older players to bring in young, new players. It will start becoming an issue if we cannot bring in revenue through tv, sponsorship and most importantly CL football. - from the perspective of bringing in top quality footballers who will demand higher wages.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:11 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:46 am wrote:
Simari » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:17 am wrote:Updated gross/net transfer spends since NESV took over (2009/2010)

Liverpool ~ £171m / £52m
Arsenal ~ £127m / £5m
Man U  ~ £120m / -£8m
Newcastle ~£40m / -£38m
Spurs ~ £85m / £0.25m
Man C ~ £370m / £270m
Chelsea ~ £300m / £250m


that doesnt tell the whole story though, according to people who follow these things closely before this summer the owners had broke about even because they had cut the wage bill by £30m.
they have probably saved a fair few quid since then as well because quite a few behind the scene`s staff like comoli etc have gone too.
according to those in the know the owners bought us at an incredibly low price as well (though admittedly £300m and a ton of debt doesnt sound like a low price to me but what i know about finance you could write on the back of a ciggy packet)
fsg arent throwing money at the problem like abramovitic but thats what that list would suggest.

Just because new players weren't arriving doesn't mean money wasn't being spent in other areas such as legal fees, contractual compensation, etc.
The list isn't intended to suggest that FSG are not spending money the way City and Chelsea are. It's stating that despite spending more than Man U, Spurs, Arsenal and Newcastle combined, we still finished below them.
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Postby Reg » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:39 am

I don't understand those figures. How did Ure spend a gross 125 then see it reduced to a nett -8? Who did they sell apart from Ronaldo? and surely buying Valencia, those twins etc.. they've spent more than 125?

Newcastle got 35 for Carroll but who else did they sell for about the same?

Lies, damn lies and statistics.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:29 am

Reg » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:39 am wrote:I don't understand those figures. How did Ure spend a gross 125 then see it reduced to a nett -8? Who did they sell apart from Ronaldo? and surely buying Valencia, those twins etc.. they've spent more than 125?

Newcastle got 35 for Carroll but who else did they sell for about the same?

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Yeah the Manure figures are dodgy. During that period the only player whom they sold worth noting was Ronaldo.
Since then they bought Valencia, Smalling, Chicarito, Lindegaard, Jones, Young and De Gea.
The season before Ronaldo left they both the LOTR trolls and Berbatov too.
Of course there were players like O Shea, Brown, Obertan and Gibson who were sold but they can't be much at all.
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Postby devaney » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:46 am

The £300m that FSG paid when they bought LFC included all the debts. It was not £300m plus the debt. They bought us at bottom book and basically paid off virtually all the debt to the lenders who were about to say enough is enough! After that exercise was complete an element of debt remained in the 2011 year ending accounts as a result of stadium design architectural fees and payoffs to Hodgson and others but by comparison to the H & G era the debt is relatively small.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby Simari » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:53 am

I posted the link a lot earlier and was just as surprised with the Man U stats, but those ARE the facts.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/

I quoted the source and ran through the player transfers - they are accurate.

I'd suggest that rather than living in denial, you check out the facts yourself  :no

The bottom line is that besides City and Chelsea, the other teams have NOT been paying over the odds for their purchases ...
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:24 pm

I think FSG are sensible owners, clearly they don't want this club to rack up debt in the same fashion that Man City and Chelsea have done and they don't want the type of debt that United has on the club, that's admirable.

They clearly want us to become sustainable for the future, so we can have sustained success which isn't jeopardising the club's long-term future. However they've got a new manager and they might need to back him by putting some of their own money into the transfer kitty to help the new manager bring in some much needed players to aid us on our bid for progression and entry back into the Champions League in the short-term and League success in the long-term.

What has worried me is that we've got more players leaving than we have coming in and we might have to let players leave in order to bring players in. As we have seen under Benitez this type of transfer philosophy does not work and it weakens the squad. We can't keep letting our better players leave, only to replace them with lesser players because this weakens us at a time where our rivals continue to spend and continue to strengthen.

I have no doubt that FSG's business model will come into fruition once we get back into the top four, but getting into the top four is hard and it becomes more difficult every season when the teams in the top four continue to strengthen further and further.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:17 pm

Interesting read in The Times today, showing how the financial fair play rules are starting to take effect

For two weeks, even football seemed to stop to watch the Olympics. The millionaire players, the demanding managers, the extravagant owners and the wily agents who make up the cast of the game’s summer soap opera seemed to disappear from view.

Even without the distraction of London 2012, though, this summer seems quieter. With two weeks of the transfer window left, Barclays Premier League clubs have spent only £240 million on new players. Not bad for a nation in recession, but a considerable decrease on last summer’s £485 million outlay. The question is, why?

Is everyone waiting to sell before they buy?

According to a number of agents consulted by The Times, this is the message emanating from many of the Premier League clubs. Teams are determined not to add to bloated squads and will splash out on players only once space has been created on their wage bills. Roberto Mancini, the Manchester City manager, has already bemoaned the champions’ desire not to overload their squad, while Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur are essentially reliant on the sales of Daniel Agger and Luka Modric, respectively, to balance the books.

Have Uefa’s looming Financial Fair Play rules had an effect?

Without question, according to Dan Jones, lead partner of Deloitte’s sports business group and one of the foremost analysts of football’s finances. “Even with an improved television deal looming, we’re seeing a more sustainable model, and that’s in part because we are already in the period that will be taken into account,” he said. “What clubs do now could impact their figures when the legislation kicks in next year. That was the aim and that’s very encouraging.”

Is Moneyball a factor?

More and more clubs across Europe are professing themselves devotees of the Moneyball philosophy espoused in the book of the same name. Even Adriano Galliani, vice-president of AC Milan, is referring to himself as being “just like Billy Beane”, the general manager of the Oakland A’s baseball team who defied financial weakness to compete. It is too easy to suggest that a book and a film have changed decades of thinking across football, but there can be no doubt that the principles are now common to most clubs: a desire to find young players, often in undervalued markets, and pay them a relatively low wage while building up their value. “There is more strategic thinking going into recruitment,” Jones said.

Have the examples of Rangers and Portsmouth stopped teams chasing the dream?

“It’s not a case of ‘there but for the grace of God,’ ” Jones says, “but what happened at Portsmouth certainly strengthened the Premier League’s resolve not to allow anyone else to follow that path. What’s happened at Rangers has proved that even big clubs can fail.” There are teams prepared to push the boat out — Paris Saint-Germain have spent more than £100 million building their side — but with spending down, they are all but unique in Europe.

Is this how it will be from now on?

In the short term, probably not. It is hard to think August will end with Robin van Persie still at Arsenal and Modric at Spurs. In 2011, Premier League clubs spent £100 million on deadline day alone. Beyond this year, though, there does seem to have been a change. FFP and the desire for youth have had their effect. “There will still be teams that go for it,” Jones said. “But hopefully the moderation we’ve seen is here to stay.”
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