Liverpool FC Forum

I know this issue has been debated before but I thought Id raise it again since it seems to be very relevant to our current situation.
Kenny Dalglish, in his first full season in charge has won us our first trophy in 6 years and in 11 days will take us to Wembley
for the 3rd time this season to compete in the FA Cup final.
If we win, and perhaps its still a big if, we will finish the season with more trophies than any other club in England.
Kenny could yet win more trophies this year than the likes of Hodgson, Pardew, Moyes and even Wenger have managed to win going back years
Yet a considerable percentage of our fans would be happy to see the back of Dalglish this summer.


Rewind back a couple of seasons to when Rafa was in charge.  We qualified for the CL 5 out of 6 seasons under Rafa and were constantly
competing in the latter stages of the CL. But...If I remember correctly, the media and a lot of our own fans were very critical of Rafa for
never playing full strength teams in the domestic competitions and not winning them.
Take a look at Arsenal... always qualifying for the CL yet they have no winning mentality because they haven't won a cup in about 7 years.


Obviously, I would personally prefer a good balance of qualifying for CL and winning trophies as often as possible. But with new owners,
a new manager, new players etc, perhaps we need to be a bit realistic / patient and accept one or the other for now?


So I guess the question is, What do you actually want?  (Being realistic).

Would you be happy with this season if we won 2 trophies? 

Do you blame managers for playing weak teams in domestic cups?  (considering winning them might not save Kennys job)

Is it ruining the game when money and TV seems to be more important than trophies?

I enjoy winning cups...I'm too old in the tooth to be proud about coming 2nd 3rd or 4th.......

supersub » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:48 pm wrote:I enjoy winning cups...I'm too old in the tooth to be proud about coming 2nd 3rd or 4th.......

I guarantee one or two of the PL top 7 would love to swap season's with us.  Especially those that do end up missing out on Top 4.

Just too add ; I would appreciate a league win, just to lay the ghost and get value for my season ticket once and awhile but 2nd 3rd & 4th is hardly open top bus material

You can't hang a top 4 place around someone's neck or put it into a trophy cabinet.

Like Supersub i'm kinda old school. Many remember the good ol' European Cup i'm sure. That was when the league winners, and ONLY the league winners went on to compete with Europes other league winners. Then for some bizzarre reason we decided to call it the CHAMPIONS League and do away with the whole champions theme.

So to answer the question...gimme a trophy every time! In some ways I don't even WANT to be in the Champions League, at least not until we have regained our crown as champions.

Integrity is a rare thing and i'm afraid romance is extinct in the footballing sense.

trophies all the way. the fact is we were spoilt when rafa was here in terms of the european nights we had. they were magnificent times but they've now gone unfortunately, mainly due to the clowns we used to have running the club. we don't have a divine right to be in the champions league just because we're liverpool football club.

the champions league will come around again but unfortunately the fan mentality of "we've got to have it now" in this day and age is all too prevalent.

RedAnt » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:52 pm wrote:Then for some bizzarre reason we decided to call it the CHAMPIONS League and do away with the whole champions theme.

The bizarre reason was big clubs like liverpool threatened to create their own european superleague if the champions league was not turned into a cash cow for the biggest clubs in europe.

stmichael » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:19 pm wrote:trophies all the way. the fact is we were spoilt when rafa was here in terms of the european nights we had. they were magnificent times but they've now gone unfortunately, mainly due to the clowns we used to have running the club. we don't have a divine right to be in the champions league just because we're liverpool football club.

the champions league will come around again but unfortunately the fan mentality of "we've got to have it now" in this day and age is all too prevalent.

We have been brainwashed into thinking that 4th is the holy grail and the peak of achievement.
The CL is the cash cow for Fifa, Eufa and Sky and it is in their interests to make it seem like qualifying is the most important thing a club can do. Look at arsenal and chelsea who have never won the CL once! It is the greatest club competition but if we dont qualify its not the end of the world. A trophy is far more prestigious than a qualification. Two is twice as good!

I won't complain about winning a domestic cup and I'm sure a day out at Wembley pleases many but beating the likes of Cardiff is hardly what I'd call a top table football event, gimme instead teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus etc etc on a night at Anfield in Champions League, I'll take that every time.

Winning trophies is the point of competing in football competitions.

Older sods like me rememeber the days of football before its ruination by the Sky Sports/Man Utd era and it was all about winning trophies, whether that was the FA cup, league cup, European cup or coming top in the first division, or second division...ad nauseum.

The "Premiership" conversion of football, unfortunately, has brought with it a generation of fans that have had no concept of just what it meant to compete and win in a competiton like the FA Cup. It's not their fault, of course. They can only respond to what their fed.

In my fathers day, it was ALL about the cup. Divisional success was generally secondary.

So, if Liverpool can get 2 cups and don't move into the second half of the table...then I'd be happy with that. However, next year will need to see HUGE improvements in the weekly games and start competing in the Premiership in a meaningful way.

tonyeh » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:46 pm wrote:Winning trophies is the point of competing in football competitions.

Older sods like me rememeber the days of football before its ruination by the Sky Sports/Man Utd era and it was all about winning trophies, whether that was the FA cup, league cup, European cup or coming top in the first division, or second division...ad nauseum.

The "Premiership" conversion of football, unfortunately, has brought with it a generation of fans that have had no concept of just what it meant to compete and win in a competiton like the FA Cup. It's not their fault, of course. They can only respond to what their fed.

In my fathers day, it was ALL about the cup. Divisional success was generally secondary.

So, if Liverpool can get 2 cups and don't move into the second half of the table...then I'd be happy with that. However, next year will need to see HUGE improvements in the weekly games and start competing in the Premiership in a meaningful way.

50% of those chances that hit the woodwork go in and we see a totally different team and end result

also, the money of the champions league has now devalued the europa league to the extent that teams work all year to get into europe and when they end up in the europa league they can't wait to get out of it. spurs had one year in the champions league and all of sudden the euopa league is "beneath them" so they put out weak sides. villa did it under o'neill to try and finish 4th and failed. i'd be livid if i was a fan. leeds spent above their means just to "live the dream" and look where it lead them.

I agree that trophies and the experience of winning is ultimately what it's all about; that it brings moments to savour and highs to relive that you don't get from finishing fourth. But while the League and FA cup are important, there are bigger, more prestigious trophies out there to win, namely the League and Champions League. To achieve our ultimate goal of winning those two competitions again, we need to make progress in the league -- to build a team capable of getting fourth, to play in the CL and generate the revenues that help attract the best players. That's why our league position matters. It isn't simply: CL place vs League/FA cup, it's: CL place and measurable progress in the league vs League/FA Cup. League position is an indicator of progress and being 8th, 16 points behind Newcastle, given the expectations at the start of the season, is cause for alarm. It doesn't mean should sack the manager, sell Andy Carroll and appoint Kerry as manager. But if we underestimate the challenge we face on the pitch based on the view that whether we'd finished 8th or 4th, as long as we win a cup our season's been a success, then we could be in for a shock next season. Cup success is great as long as it doesn't cause us to lose sight of the future since the goal is not just to win but to keep on winning.

LFC2007 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:59 pm wrote:I agree that trophies and the experience of winning is ultimately what it's all about; that it brings moments to savour and highs to relive that you don't get from finishing fourth. But while the League and FA cup are important, there are bigger, more prestigious trophies out there to win, namely the League and Champions League. To achieve our ultimate goal of winning those two competitions again, we need to make progress in the league -- to build a team capable of getting fourth, to play in the CL and generate the revenues that help attract the best players. That's why our league position matters. It isn't simply: CL place vs League/FA cup, it's: CL place and measurable progress in the league vs League/FA Cup. League position is an indicator of progress and being 8th, 16 points behind Newcastle, given the expectations at the start of the season, is cause for alarm. It doesn't mean should sack the manager, sell Andy Carroll and appoint Kerry as manager. But if we underestimate the challenge we face on the pitch based on the view that whether we'd finished 8th or 4th, as long as we win a cup our season's been a success, then we could be in for a shock next season. Cup success is great as long as it doesn't cause us to lose sight of the future. The goal is to win but also to keep winning.

I dont believe anyone in their right mind is satisfied with whats gone on this season. Even if we win the two cups the league is a bitter disappointment. We have to be positive and have faith that things will get better next season.
There have been too many factors which have worked against us this season and they have all added up to dictate our standing in the table. I am not saying performances and results shouldnt have been better, but I have never experienced a season like this for sheer frustration and anger with things on and off the pitch. Lets beat chelsea and just get the thing over with