Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:12 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Suarez needs to release the ball earlier and bring others into play more ,the sheer amount of times he attempts to slip through
the whole of the oppositions defence without threading a telling pass is starting to frustrate the life out of me .

Because he is selfish, he always tries to attempt to beat his man instead of releasing the ball in open space, that's the type of player he is, yes I guess its frustrating to see but sometimes he pulls it off and it's wonderful to watch.

I hope he does show a bit of team work though.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:25 pm

metalhead wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Suarez needs to release the ball earlier and bring others into play more ,the sheer amount of times he attempts to slip through
the whole of the oppositions defence without threading a telling pass is starting to frustrate the life out of me .

Because he is selfish, he always tries to attempt to beat his man instead of releasing the ball in open space, that's the type of player he is, yes I guess its frustrating to see but sometimes he pulls it off and it's wonderful to watch.

I hope he does show a bit of team work though.

At times when successful it really is beautiful to watch ,but how frustrating was Luis Garcia ? Even though the lad scored some truly sensational goals ,he wasted a hell of a lot of possession by producing an unsuccessful flick on or drag back .

I think Suarez would be magical if he reverted back to how he was when he first played for the reds ,when he would readily bring other players unselfishly into play .

by **Kerry07** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:14 pm

He was outstanding today.

Looks a different player when he has a technical player like Kuyt to link up with.. as they did on quite a few occasions. Probably his best all round performance of the season. Le Tissier was raving about him.

The mazy run and shot that almost went in the corner before the keeper got a hand to it, winning the pen, hits post. He tore their defence to pieces. What Luis doesn't have with us is a Forlan.. a clinical finisher to feed as he does with Uruguay.

A lot of the percieved selfishness is due to there not being anyone to provide (such as his pass to Bellamy at Brighton).. so he tends to go it alone.

by **friendlyguy33** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:27 am

Kerry07 wrote:He was outstanding today.

Looks a different player when he has a technical player like Kuyt to link up with.. as they did on quite a few occasions. Probably his best all round performance of the season. Le Tissier was raving about him.

The mazy run and shot that almost went in the corner before the keeper got a hand to it, winning the pen, hits post. He tore their defence to pieces. What Luis doesn't have with us is a Forlan.. a clinical finisher to feed as he does with Uruguay.

A lot of the percieved selfishness is due to there not being anyone to provide (such as his pass to Bellamy at Brighton).. so he tends to go it alone.

So why should Bellamy have come on if the movement of the forward was so superb today as you've already claimed in at least one other post?

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:30 pm

It's a bit of a read, but an excellent article:

Is Liverpool's Luis Suárez simply trying to do too much on the pitch?

Luis Suárez is this season's most talked about player, yet so little talk has been about his football. Suárez is a fascinating player because he has an unusual style of play – it's difficult to think of another player, past or present, to liken him to. He's a small, quick dribbler who enjoys roaming the pitch laterally, yet was also a brilliant poacher in his Ajax days. The first half of that description holds true for his 14 months at Liverpool, but he is yet to prove he has the finishing ability of old. That is crucial, considering Liverpool have the worst shot conversion rate in the league, at 9%, and have scored as few goals as Wolves, in the relegation zone.

Suárez's goal return this season is, in isolation, extremely disappointing. He's scored six goals from 21 appearances, a similar record to West Brom's Shane Long, and worse than Norwich's Steve Morison or Bolton's Ivan Klasnic. It's hardly unprecedented for a striker to arrive from the Eredivisie and be significantly less prolific in the Premier League, but Suárez is clearly no Afonso Alves or Mateja Kezman – he's not overawed by the league, he's not playing badly, he's just not scoring enough.

Six goals doesn't look much better when you consider that Suárez has 4.2 shots per game – only Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie have more, and they've scored 18 and 25 goals respectively. But shots per game is a statistic open to interpretation and debate, and Suárez epitomises the uncertainly with which it should be viewed. Players with a high shots per game rate are generally exceptional performers – from Europe's top five leagues, first and second by that measure are Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. The main thing this says is that they're constant threat, which is something Suárez – to a lesser extent – also offers.

Glenn Hoddle once said that Andy Cole needed six or seven chances to score one goal, which was an extremely harsh reflection on an excellent striker, especially as the criticism stuck with Cole for the rest of his career. But if, for a second, we take Hoddle's view as gospel (which is always a slightly dangerous game), was Cole's problem that he needed six or seven chances? Or that he needed six or seven chances that had been created by others? Cole wasn't simply a finisher, but he was predominantly a penalty box player. The apparent wastefulness was more obvious when it came at the end of a swerving David Beckham cross, from a lofted Paul Scholes pass or following a surging Ryan Giggs dribble. It looked as if he was letting the side down, ruining someone else's good work.

Suárez is completely different. If Cole's need for six or seven chances was worthy of criticism, Suárez's record of scoring a goal every 14.8 shots is truly terrible (with the caveat that a "shot" is not quite the same as a "chance"). If he were a pure poacher, that ratio would be worthy of a place on the bench.

Yet a decent proportion of Suárez's shots are self-created, following good movement into the channels, a quick turn and then a direct dart into the box. His shot after 40 minutes of Saturday's meeting with Arsenal was a fine example – he rolled Thomas Vermaelen, turned past Alex Song, skipped away from Bacary Sagna and then cut inside Laurent Koscielny within five seconds, to present himself with a clear sight of goal 10 yards out, having picked up the ball on the edge of the area with his back to goal. Having expended so much energy with the burst past opponents, and with his balance increasingly slipping away as he escaped past each challenge, in the end all he could manage was a tame, stabbed shot that was easily turned away by Wojciech Szczesny. How much credit do you give the player for creating the opportunity, and how much blame for squandering it? In a one-off incident it's an exceptional piece of skill. Yet when the pattern is repeated over a period of nearly 90 shots (not all in this fashion, of course), you wonder if Suárez is simply trying to do too much.

Suárez's best role is up for debate – his good form at Ajax came when moving inside from a right-sided position, then with Uruguay he excelled at the Copa América last year when used as the primary striker. Importantly, he seemed to have much more of a defined role in the side, much stricter instructions. At Liverpool his role has varied between playing up front alone, and just behind Andy Carroll. He's generally been Liverpool's best attacking player this season – though Craig Bellamy has also played well – but too much of the play is dependent upon him, and he becomes the main man responsible for both creativity and goalscoring. To do two things at once is to do neither, Publilius Syrus once wrote, and Suarez's six goals are supplemented by a single assist.

Granted, pinning him down to a more specific role would be tricky considering the woes of his team-mates. You don't want to depend on Stewart Downing for service at the moment, nor on Carroll for goals, and Suárez often seems keener to go alone than involve certain other team-mates in his play. But one man running the show can cause others problems – David Beckham famously averted a crisis against Greece in 2001, but had probably contributed to the crisis with his positionless Roy of the Rovers act for much of the game.

At heart Suárez is a goalscorer, and it is only fine margins costing him. He's hit the woodwork six times this season – as many times as he has scored. That record suggests that he's on the right track, and he can look to his opposing striker on Saturday to see how important a couple of inches can be – Robin van Persie was previously the king of hitting the woodwork, now he's the best finisher in the Premier League.

The Arsenal captain has evolved from an all-rounder who picked the ball up in deep positions, to more of a finisher. He's less involved in the play, but clearly playing the most effective football of his career. He received the ball less than half as often as Suárez on Saturday – but twice he got the ball in the box, and both chances were converted with a one-touch finish.

Potency up front was the only difference between the sides at Anfield on Saturday. It's not that Liverpool don't have their Van Persie figure, they're just yet to bring out his full potential.

Link to the article on The Guardian website

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:22 pm

metalhead wrote:Link

I don't know whether to laugh or cry

that is one of the most stupidest things ive ever heard :nod

and the worst of it is id say the silly cow is still living with him.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:34 pm

Redman in wales wrote:It's a bit of a read, but an excellent article:

Is Liverpool's Luis Suárez simply trying to do too much on the pitch?

Luis Suárez is this season's most talked about player, yet so little talk has been about his football. Suárez is a fascinating player because he has an unusual style of play – it's difficult to think of another player, past or present, to liken him to. He's a small, quick dribbler who enjoys roaming the pitch laterally, yet was also a brilliant poacher in his Ajax days. The first half of that description holds true for his 14 months at Liverpool, but he is yet to prove he has the finishing ability of old. That is crucial, considering Liverpool have the worst shot conversion rate in the league, at 9%, and have scored as few goals as Wolves, in the relegation zone.

Suárez's goal return this season is, in isolation, extremely disappointing. He's scored six goals from 21 appearances, a similar record to West Brom's Shane Long, and worse than Norwich's Steve Morison or Bolton's Ivan Klasnic. It's hardly unprecedented for a striker to arrive from the Eredivisie and be significantly less prolific in the Premier League, but Suárez is clearly no Afonso Alves or Mateja Kezman – he's not overawed by the league, he's not playing badly, he's just not scoring enough.

Six goals doesn't look much better when you consider that Suárez has 4.2 shots per game – only Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie have more, and they've scored 18 and 25 goals respectively. But shots per game is a statistic open to interpretation and debate, and Suárez epitomises the uncertainly with which it should be viewed. Players with a high shots per game rate are generally exceptional performers – from Europe's top five leagues, first and second by that measure are Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. The main thing this says is that they're constant threat, which is something Suárez – to a lesser extent – also offers.

Glenn Hoddle once said that Andy Cole needed six or seven chances to score one goal, which was an extremely harsh reflection on an excellent striker, especially as the criticism stuck with Cole for the rest of his career. But if, for a second, we take Hoddle's view as gospel (which is always a slightly dangerous game), was Cole's problem that he needed six or seven chances? Or that he needed six or seven chances that had been created by others? Cole wasn't simply a finisher, but he was predominantly a penalty box player. The apparent wastefulness was more obvious when it came at the end of a swerving David Beckham cross, from a lofted Paul Scholes pass or following a surging Ryan Giggs dribble. It looked as if he was letting the side down, ruining someone else's good work.

Suárez is completely different. If Cole's need for six or seven chances was worthy of criticism, Suárez's record of scoring a goal every 14.8 shots is truly terrible (with the caveat that a "shot" is not quite the same as a "chance"). If he were a pure poacher, that ratio would be worthy of a place on the bench.

Yet a decent proportion of Suárez's shots are self-created, following good movement into the channels, a quick turn and then a direct dart into the box. His shot after 40 minutes of Saturday's meeting with Arsenal was a fine example – he rolled Thomas Vermaelen, turned past Alex Song, skipped away from Bacary Sagna and then cut inside Laurent Koscielny within five seconds, to present himself with a clear sight of goal 10 yards out, having picked up the ball on the edge of the area with his back to goal. Having expended so much energy with the burst past opponents, and with his balance increasingly slipping away as he escaped past each challenge, in the end all he could manage was a tame, stabbed shot that was easily turned away by Wojciech Szczesny. How much credit do you give the player for creating the opportunity, and how much blame for squandering it? In a one-off incident it's an exceptional piece of skill. Yet when the pattern is repeated over a period of nearly 90 shots (not all in this fashion, of course), you wonder if Suárez is simply trying to do too much.

Suárez's best role is up for debate – his good form at Ajax came when moving inside from a right-sided position, then with Uruguay he excelled at the Copa América last year when used as the primary striker. Importantly, he seemed to have much more of a defined role in the side, much stricter instructions. At Liverpool his role has varied between playing up front alone, and just behind Andy Carroll. He's generally been Liverpool's best attacking player this season – though Craig Bellamy has also played well – but too much of the play is dependent upon him, and he becomes the main man responsible for both creativity and goalscoring. To do two things at once is to do neither, Publilius Syrus once wrote, and Suarez's six goals are supplemented by a single assist.

Granted, pinning him down to a more specific role would be tricky considering the woes of his team-mates. You don't want to depend on Stewart Downing for service at the moment, nor on Carroll for goals, and Suárez often seems keener to go alone than involve certain other team-mates in his play. But one man running the show can cause others problems – David Beckham famously averted a crisis against Greece in 2001, but had probably contributed to the crisis with his positionless Roy of the Rovers act for much of the game.

At heart Suárez is a goalscorer, and it is only fine margins costing him. He's hit the woodwork six times this season – as many times as he has scored. That record suggests that he's on the right track, and he can look to his opposing striker on Saturday to see how important a couple of inches can be – Robin van Persie was previously the king of hitting the woodwork, now he's the best finisher in the Premier League.

The Arsenal captain has evolved from an all-rounder who picked the ball up in deep positions, to more of a finisher. He's less involved in the play, but clearly playing the most effective football of his career. He received the ball less than half as often as Suárez on Saturday – but twice he got the ball in the box, and both chances were converted with a one-touch finish.

Potency up front was the only difference between the sides at Anfield on Saturday. It's not that Liverpool don't have their Van Persie figure, they're just yet to bring out his full potential.

Link to the article on The Guardian website

good read that.
lets hope we find the right partner for him in the summer and then we could possibly have the best striking and defensive partnerships in the league :buttrock

by **devaney** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:02 pm

I'm not sure Luis even needs a partner. What he needs is a midfield producing quality incisive balls that he can score from. The service that Luis and Andy have received all season has been very poor. Luis has had to feed on scraps and try to achieve the impossible because of a lack of support. Look at the quality of the balls played into RVP on Saturday. I accept that his finishing was clinical and of the highest standard but without the supply line he couldn't have scored those goals.

by **zarababe** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Luis is the best player to be 'bought' to this club since the likes of Barnesey etc. DON'T FORGET THAT

We must build a team around his talent if we are to reach the heights all of us want to. You don't become a great team with average players alone.. greatness is inherent through the talents of one or two individuals, whose presence and abilities bring the best out of the rest .... remember Argentina 1986 ... lest we forget !

by **Kerry07** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:35 pm

red till i die!! wrote:lets hope we find the right partner for him in the summer and then we could possibly have the best striking and defensive partnerships in the league

A Forlan clone.

Luis has never looked better than the 2011 Copa America... his partnership with Forlan was devastating. His assist for Forlans second goal in the final showed great awareness.

We should be building our team around him rather than facilitating others into the team to the detriment of his own game.

In terms of a partner for him, Soldado would be the dream signing but cant see that happening.

by **devaney** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:35 pm

Kerry07 wrote:He was outstanding today.

Looks a different player when he has a technical player like Kuyt to link up with.. as they did on quite a few occasions. Probably his best all round performance of the season. Le Tissier was raving about him.

The mazy run and shot that almost went in the corner before the keeper got a hand to it, winning the pen, hits post. He tore their defence to pieces. What Luis doesn't have with us is a Forlan.. a clinical finisher to feed as he does with Uruguay.

A lot of the percieved selfishness is due to there not being anyone to provide (such as his pass to Bellamy at Brighton).. so he tends to go it alone.

Outstanding strikers score goals and win games! On Saturday Luis did neither.I accept that he played some impressive football and that the penalty he won should have been converted but he is a striker and you can't get away from the simple fact that he doesn't score enough goals. He has scored 6 times and hit the post 6 times in the Premiership this year. His shot to goal ratio is over 14 which is poor. He's great to watch and very exciting. He can also be quite selfish. We have nearly £60m worth of strikers who really struggle to hit the back of the net. One get's castigated by some idiots and the other gets a lot of praise.

I hate to say this but our results since Luis returned from his 9 match ban have been worse than when he wasn't playing! We have lost 2 and drawn 2 in 5 games since he returned.We only lost 2 and drew 1 in 9 games without him. He also failed to step up and take a penalty against Cardiff which I would expect a striker with outstanding qualities to relish the opportunity.

I'm sorry but as much as I like Luis it is not all good news.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm

devaney wrote:I'm not sure Luis even needs a partner. What he needs is a midfield producing quality incisive balls that he can score from. The service that Luis and Andy have received all season has been very poor. Luis has had to feed on scraps and try to achieve the impossible because of a lack of support. Look at the quality of the balls played into RVP on Saturday. I accept that his finishing was clinical and of the highest standard but without the supply line he couldn't have scored those goals.

i reckon he does need a partner and whats more we are crying out for someone who is clinical as neither suarez,carroll,kuyt or bellamy are.
the midfield and forward lines have created a lot of goalscoring oppertunitys for the team this year and we struggle to convert.if we had rvp here city would be playing catch up on us by now.
kuyt and bellers are well on age wise and one of them has to go and my money would be on dirk.purely because we would get a fee for him to fund a replacement.

we could also do with a creative midfielder.we have 2 already on the books in aqua and cole who have both been playing well for their adoptive clubs so if they cant be sold in the summer id like to see them return here rather than be sent out again.

luis has shown he is creative and inventive but far from clinical and we need another option up front.

by **devaney** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:59 pm

I accept that we have had a lot of attempts on goal this season but it comes down to the quality of those attempts and on many occasions they have been poor which is unacceptable. Just how many clear cut incisive balls have come from our midfield. A handful at best. The problem IMHO is down to the quality of what is coming out of midfield and that looked significantly better against Arsenal but we still couldn't score! A midfield that can't create and forwards that can't score is always going to be a bit of a problem!

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:23 pm

devaney wrote:I accept that we have had a lot of attempts on goal this season but it comes down to the quality of those attempts and on many occasions they have been poor which is unacceptable. Just how many clear cut incisive balls have come from our midfield. A handful at best. The problem IMHO is down to the quality of what is coming out of midfield and that looked significantly better against Arsenal but we still couldn't score! A midfield that can't create and forwards that can't score is always going to be a bit of a problem!

we have the most chances created out of any team in the prem this year and thats not to be overlooked.
we need our players to be more composed and confident when the chance arises.suarez could have scored a contender for goal of the season the other day.he had left 4 for dead but snatched at the shot and had he of lifted his head and placed it to the keepers left there was no way he was saving it.
its been a similar story with downing who could have easily hit double figures for assists and goals but he too often makes the wrong choice.
adam also is guilty of opting for power instead of placement and he constantly drags his foot across it scuffing the shot.
i would be really surprised if we struggle for goals again next year as hopefully we will see more confident individuals and also with the inclusion of 2 or 3 new additions.

by **zapp7** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Brilliant article! We need six quality players who can make something out of nothing, to get that fear factor we once had! A couple of proven quality players to join what we have will bring that back I feel, we cannot constantly rely on Stevie G and surez to perform every week to win us games, these guys need help, when they look around the pitch they want to see other quality players to feel confident that the team stands a chance in wining games also someone else is capable of producing something out of the extra ordinary like they can when we are not playing well. BUY QUALITY PLAYERS THAT WILL LIFT THE PLAYERS AND FANS IS THE KEY!!

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