Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:03 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:lovely fella, very likable.. shame hes a pub player.

Carling Cup winner

Unfortunately Kuyt did more in 30 mins than Carroll in 80.

Are you saying Carroll had no influence whatsoever on the game?

does my sentence say that? :rasp

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:54 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:lovely fella, very likable.. shame hes a pub player.

Carling Cup winner

Unfortunately Kuyt did more in 30 mins than Carroll in 80.

Are you saying Carroll had no influence whatsoever on the game?

does my sentence say that?

No it doesnt thankfully
Could you elaborate on what you meant then?
Thanks

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:55 pm

parchpea wrote:The lad is selected to try and justify the fee and not on ability.

Dalglish will want him away now but has to cover his own back for a while by putting Carroll on the park.

Day will come soon enough when he doesnt have to do that anymore and Carroll will be down the road.

Kenny told you that himself did he ?

As Carra said to that reporter - " Are you the manager now ?"

by **JC_81** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:42 pm

Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm

john craig wrote:Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

He cost £35 million you know
:sleepy:

by **Kerry07** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:27 pm

john craig wrote:Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

Because Downing put in umpteen quality crosses and the immobile big fella was nowhere to be seen. He has number 9 on his jersey, he looks anything but.

Dirk Kuyt did more in 20 minutes than Carroll did in 100.

I have seen nothing from Carroll in his career to suggest he is good enough for a team that aspires to be top 4. No-one outside the club does, and those inside the club that do are optimistic to the extreme.

The worst players on the field yesterday were Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam, and Andy Carroll. Two taken off and the other overhit absolutely everything all day. Kenny bought terribly..lets not kid ourselves. The trophy was fantastic.. but it shouldnt be used to disguise these three poor dealings.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:31 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
john craig wrote:Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

Because Downing put in umpteen quality crosses and the immobile big fella was nowhere to be seen. He has number 9 on his jersey, he looks anything but.

Dirk Kuyt did more in 20 minutes than Carroll did in 100.

I have seen nothing from Carroll in his career to suggest he is good enough for a team that aspires to be top 4. No-one outside the club does, and those inside the club that do are optimistic to the extreme.

The worst players on the field yesterday were Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam, and Andy Carroll. Two taken off and the other overhit absolutely everything all day. Kenny bought terribly..lets not kid ourselves. The trophy was fantastic.. but it shouldnt be used to disguise these three poor dealings.

You need to shut up for a while, try winding your neck in.

You are a typical flimsy Internet fan who hasn't got a clue - the fact you were suggest Daggers had 45 mins to save his managerial career just highlights that. Why don't you return to supporting the mancs.

by **JC_81** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:39 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
john craig wrote:Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

Because Downing put in umpteen quality crosses and the immobile big fella was nowhere to be seen. He has number 9 on his jersey, he looks anything but.

Dirk Kuyt did more in 20 minutes than Carroll did in 100.

I have seen nothing from Carroll in his career to suggest he is good enough for a team that aspires to be top 4. No-one outside the club does, and those inside the club that do are optimistic to the extreme.

The worst players on the field yesterday were Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam, and Andy Carroll. Two taken off and the other overhit absolutely everything all day. Kenny bought terribly..lets not kid ourselves. The trophy was fantastic.. but it shouldnt be used to disguise these three poor dealings.

I disagree.

I still think Adam was good business for 7 mil. His form has dipped recently but I think he's a good squad player who has played more games than he would have if Lucas hadn't been injured.

I think Henderson's too young to judge. The fee isn't his fault. Agree he was woeful yesterday, but that's what you get with young players, inconsistency. And that's also what you get when you play someone out of position. I still think he'll come good with a bit more experience and a switch to his preferred role in the centre.

Carroll will probably never be worth 35 mil but that fee was clearly massively inflated as we had money to burn from Torres going and little time to replace him. Doesn't mean Carroll can't be a good asset for us, but if you constantly throw up the fee then you will always be disappointed. Sensible fans knew in the first place he wasn't worth that, which is why they aren't throwing the toys out of the pram because he hasn't justified the fee. Again, not the lad's fault we paid that much for him.

6 of the starting eleven on Sunday joined the club within the last 13 months. A team doesn't gel overnight. A quieter summer with maybe one or two players of high quality coming in and watch just how more consistent we are next season. I'm not saying we'll win the league but I think we'll comfortably finish top four next season. And this season's not over yet either.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:43 pm

john craig wrote:I disagree.

I still think Adam was good business for 7 mil. His form has dipped recently but I think he's a good squad player who has played more games than he would have if Lucas hadn't been injured.

I think Henderson's too young to judge. The fee isn't his fault. Agree he was woeful yesterday, but that's what you get with young players, inconsistency. And that's also what you get when you play someone out of position. I still think he'll come good with a bit more experience and a switch to his preferred role in the centre.

Carroll will probably never be worth 35 mil but that fee was clearly massively inflated as we had money to burn from Torres going and little time to replace him. Doesn't mean Carroll can't be a good asset for us, but if you constantly throw up the fee then you will always be disappointed. Sensible fans knew in the first place he wasn't worth that, which is why they aren't throwing the toys out of the pram because he hasn't justified the fee. Again, not the lad's fault we paid that much for him.

6 of the starting eleven on Sunday joined the club within the last 13 months. A team doesn't gel overnight. A quieter summer with maybe one or two players of high quality coming in and watch just how more consistent we are next season. I'm not saying we'll win the league but I think we'll comfortably finish top four next season. And this season's not over yet either.

Good post John. Nice to see that there are still posters around who are mature enough to hold a discussion without resorting to making childish insults unlike some others above :;):

Though I have to disagree with your comment about Henderson's inconsistency. I think he has been very consistent in being woeful!

by **JC_81** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:12 pm

Maypax - agree mate it's been hard to watch Henderson at times this season.

I happened to be working in Sunderland for a year when Henderson was breaking into the team there and went to see them on occasion. The first time I saws Henderson he looked top class and it was clear he was destined for a move to a big club some day.

He's clearly struggling here. Clearly. I think he just needs to get through this season. He's been relied on more than we wanted I think after injuries to Lucas and Gerrard. He looks to me to be a trier though, so much like Lucas, Skrtel and Kuyt before him, that attitude will carry him a long way and eventually he'll win the majority of fans over. Whether he ever justifies a 20 mil fee I don't know, but I'm expecting better things next season.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:53 am

john craig wrote:Maypax - agree mate it's been hard to watch Henderson at times this season.

I happened to be working in Sunderland for a year when Henderson was breaking into the team there and went to see them on occasion. The first time I saws Henderson he looked top class and it was clear he was destined for a move to a big club some day.

He's clearly struggling here. Clearly. I think he just needs to get through this season. He's been relied on more than we wanted I think after injuries to Lucas and Gerrard. He looks to me to be a trier though, so much like Lucas, Skrtel and Kuyt before him, that attitude will carry him a long way and eventually he'll win the majority of fans over. Whether he ever justifies a 20 mil fee I don't know, but I'm expecting better things next season.

Ignore the fee for a moment, because I think the biggest issue right now is - what does he do? He definitely doesn't have the skills and pace to be a winger. So assuming he is central midfielders, is he a more defensive minded or attacking minded player?

If he has the attitude of Kuyt, Skrtel and Lucas, he will indeed eventually be a very good player but the thing is, the more players we have whom are touted to be "one for the future", the longer we'll have to wait for a league title. My worry is, that Henderson is getting the nod over Shelvey, when it is the latter who has shown much more dynamism and ability to take over Gerrard.

I reckon he was a wrong buy. We do not need him, never did. We have Gerrard, Shelvey and Adam in more advanced roles but we only have Lucas and Spearing in defensive midfield. Now Spearing for all his heart is never going to make it. He will do very well at a lower tier club but he is limited. Back then, I felt that the money spent on Henderson should have gone towards a DM, someone like M'Vila or even Scott Parker. At least, they would be able to make an immediate impact on the first team.

Henderson should play with the reserves in the meantime, or be sent on loan to a team which will allow him to grow. Along with Carroll and Adam, he lacks mobility, speed and skills to unlock defenses. He might have done well at Sunderland but he has Robbie Keane written all over him.

by **metalhead** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 am

john craig wrote:Maypax - agree mate it's been hard to watch Henderson at times this season.

I happened to be working in Sunderland for a year when Henderson was breaking into the team there and went to see them on occasion. The first time I saws Henderson he looked top class and it was clear he was destined for a move to a big club some day.

He's clearly struggling here. Clearly. I think he just needs to get through this season. He's been relied on more than we wanted I think after injuries to Lucas and Gerrard. He looks to me to be a trier though, so much like Lucas, Skrtel and Kuyt before him, that attitude will carry him a long way and eventually he'll win the majority of fans over. Whether he ever justifies a 20 mil fee I don't know, but I'm expecting better things next season.

I agree with your sentiments John, time will tell in the end with Henderson, I don't think he should be anywhere near the starting eleven right now, but maybe later on in a couple of seasons he might be a good premiership midfielder

by **Kerry07** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:43 pm

john craig wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
john craig wrote:Can't see how Carroll comes in for criticism after that game.

The midfield was poor. Adam, Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Enrique and even Reina were below par. Carroll at least was instrumental in setting up Skrtel's goal by winning the header from the corner, even if his performance didn't set the worls alight.

Only Downing, Skrtel and Kuyt played well on the day for us imo. We were lucky, but deserved it after a tough route to the final with good away wins against Stoke, Chelsea and City.

Because Downing put in umpteen quality crosses and the immobile big fella was nowhere to be seen. He has number 9 on his jersey, he looks anything but.

Dirk Kuyt did more in 20 minutes than Carroll did in 100.

I have seen nothing from Carroll in his career to suggest he is good enough for a team that aspires to be top 4. No-one outside the club does, and those inside the club that do are optimistic to the extreme.

The worst players on the field yesterday were Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam, and Andy Carroll. Two taken off and the other overhit absolutely everything all day. Kenny bought terribly..lets not kid ourselves. The trophy was fantastic.. but it shouldnt be used to disguise these three poor dealings.

I disagree.

I still think Adam was good business for 7 mil. His form has dipped recently but I think he's a good squad player who has played more games than he would have if Lucas hadn't been injured.

I think Henderson's too young to judge. The fee isn't his fault. Agree he was woeful yesterday, but that's what you get with young players, inconsistency. And that's also what you get when you play someone out of position. I still think he'll come good with a bit more experience and a switch to his preferred role in the centre.

Carroll will probably never be worth 35 mil but that fee was clearly massively inflated as we had money to burn from Torres going and little time to replace him. Doesn't mean Carroll can't be a good asset for us, but if you constantly throw up the fee then you will always be disappointed. Sensible fans knew in the first place he wasn't worth that, which is why they aren't throwing the toys out of the pram because he hasn't justified the fee. Again, not the lad's fault we paid that much for him.

6 of the starting eleven on Sunday joined the club within the last 13 months. A team doesn't gel overnight. A quieter summer with maybe one or two players of high quality coming in and watch just how more consistent we are next season. I'm not saying we'll win the league but I think we'll comfortably finish top four next season. And this season's not over yet either.

When the caption comes up at the start of the game, and shows Andy Carroll upfront, no one can genuinely be happy seeing that, besides opposing fans.

No one looks at Liverpool and thinks.. oh f8ck they have Andy Carroll. No one.

Post match Malkay McKay was talking about what they were working on regarding Suarez, Gerrard and Downing.. he said nothing of Carroll.

I agree that you have to view him purely as a player and dismiss the preposterous fee. His lack of movement, anticipation (umpteen quality Downing crosses), his lack of linking up with play, his average finishing, his general all round averageness.. he has done zero in his career to suggest he will ever be good enough.

by **lakes10** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:08 pm

Carroll has a big part in winning that game, not only did he set up a goal but in defence he did just the right thing to put their player off from getting the winning goal in the last few secs.
I thing he had a very good game for us.

by **7_Kewell** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:28 pm

lakes10 wrote:Carroll has a big part in winning that game, not only did he set up a goal but in defence he did just the right thing to put their player off from getting the winning goal in the last few secs.
I thing he had a very good game for us.

I don't...i thought his movement was shocking and he was little more than a passenger for the most part.

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