Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

He seems to have lost some weight for me. Certainly in recent weeks he's been looking a lot leaner.

His movement has also upped a level as others have said. His goal at the weekend was classic forward play. He made Downing's mind up for him. Earlier in the season he wouldn't have made that run and the move would probably have fizzled out.

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

I'm glad to see him getting better every game, he is getting into right positions this time and contributing a lot to our attacking play. Let's hope he continues to do the same.

Getting into the right positions is (and has been) my main criticism of Carroll since he signed. His anticipation and movement inside the box have been very poor for someone whose game depends on getting on the end of crosses. To be honest, I dont see where the criticism of his 'work rate' comes from because for me he works really hard at tracking back and chasing balls- sometimes overly so and leading to him not being in spaces you would want him to be.

Obviously with experience and age you expect him to improve his movement inside the box but for now he isnt doing enough imo. Too static too often inside the box and that in turn allows defenders to mark him more easily. His aerial prowess which is well documented is yet to be unleashed and watching most of his games so far you can see that he gets easily frustrated at referees not giving decision his way. That for me is something he needs to work on because if hes standing and not attacking the ball that makes the defenders job much easier and makes the wide man's job of picking him that much harder.

A work in progress and theres definitely some potential there but he still has a long way to go imo.

to be fair to carroll though mate it must be a nightmare playing up front for us and trying to anticipate when the cross is going to come in, the amount of times players feint to cross with one foot then turn back on to the other and then put it in, or feint to cross then play the ball back to someone 10 yards behind them must drive forwards crazy.
i`ve heard interviews with plenty of forwards over the years especially forwards good in the air like graeme sharpe and andy gray who said wide players not putting the ball in early used to infuriate them and make their job neigh on impossible.
i`ve heard ian st.john say similar things about peter thompson, thompson was as skillfull as george best but he`d constantly take an extra player on when he didnt need to or even turn back and then turn back again and again, st.john and hunt would be running backwards and forwards and often ended up bumping into each other because they didnt know if they were coming or going.
another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.
it`s taken carroll time to adjust to liverpool but not all of it is down to him.

[stmichael]

another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.

not just the standard of crossing but the positions that we cross from. a lot of the time the crosses are floated in from far to deep a position to be effective. we hardly ever score from crosses pulled back from the byline because we don't get in behind teams. that's why the mancs are particularly effective, especially when valencia plays.

[ethanr]

He's been doing a lot better lately and hopefully he can continue that.  Even when he doesn't score he often causes defenders havoc on corners etc that lead to the likes of Agger, Skrtel scoring.

Still think we should be in the market for a prolific striker this summer though.  And we should keep Andy

I agree.  To be hones I think if we got a really good striker (Cavani anyone?  ) then we could either play a 4-3-3, or a 4-2-2 with Suarez in the midfield.  Suarez is great with the ball at his feet no matter where he is, and as a midfielder could really create a lot for the strikers.

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.

not just the standard of crossing but the positions that we cross from. a lot of the time the crosses are floated in from far to deep a position to be effective. we hardly ever score from crosses pulled back from the byline because we don't get in behind teams. that's why the mancs are particularly effective, especially when valencia plays.

yeah good point mate, in terms of the deliveries themselves i dont know if our poor crossing is down to players trying to do too much with the ball (i.e trying to put too much pace or whip on it etc) but with carroll in the side the delivery doesnt have to be perfect, you dont need a textbook beckham-esque or gerrard-esque flat cross with plenty of pace on it just waiting to be knocked in, he just needs something that he has a fighting chance of winning.
suarez`s goal against brighton came after downing (i think) just stood a ball up at the far post, it wasnt a great cross, it was just a percentage ball lobbed up there for anyone to win but thats all carroll needs half the time.
a percentage ball + andy carroll + supporting players = goals, that formula worked well at newcastle and it`s worked here when we`ve used it too.

[aCe']

He's been doing a lot better lately and hopefully he can continue that.  Even when he doesn't score he often causes defenders havoc on corners etc that lead to the likes of Agger, Skrtel scoring.

Still think we should be in the market for a prolific striker this summer though.  And we should keep Andy

I agree.  To be hones I think if we got a really good striker (Cavani anyone?  ) then we could either play a 4-3-3, or a 4-2-2 with Suarez in the midfield.  Suarez is great with the ball at his feet no matter where he is, and as a midfielder could really create a lot for the strikers.

[aCe']

another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.

not just the standard of crossing but the positions that we cross from. a lot of the time the crosses are floated in from far to deep a position to be effective. we hardly ever score from crosses pulled back from the byline because we don't get in behind teams. that's why the mancs are particularly effective, especially when valencia plays.

yeah good point mate, in terms of the deliveries themselves i dont know if our poor crossing is down to players trying to do too much with the ball (i.e trying to put too much pace or whip on it etc) but with carroll in the side the delivery doesnt have to be perfect, you dont need a textbook beckham-esque or gerrard-esque flat cross with plenty of pace on it just waiting to be knocked in, he just needs something that he has a fighting chance of winning.
suarez`s goal against brighton came after downing (i think) just stood a ball up at the far post, it wasnt a great cross, it was just a percentage ball lobbed up there for anyone to win but thats all carroll needs half the time.
a percentage ball + andy carroll + supporting players = goals, that formula worked well at newcastle and it`s worked here when we`ve used it too.

While I do agree to some extent with the point you are trying to make here, I think the problem extends a little beyond our poor crossing of the ball. Downing in particular has been dissapointing with his crossing I'll give you that but for me that again largely goes back to the style of football we are trying to play rather than the players consistently failing to deliver quality balls in the box.

Too often, we see Downing, Bellamy or Kuyt taking an extra touch or backward pass to try and bring more players into the equation higher up the pitch. We try to pass it until the space is created and we depend largely on players getting inside the box with the ball rather than taking the direct approach and just crossing it or hoofing it in there. It has to be said that with players like Suarez, Bellamy and Gerrard being the best attacking players on offer it seems like the logical thing to do.

But then comes Andy Carroll, and everything needs to be done differently. For starters, if we are going to rely on Carroll as our main attacking outlet (and Im not saying we should) then we'll need to bring in better wide players than Downing, Kuyt and Maxi. We'll also need to find a different way of utilizing Suarez because he definitely wont be relishing the prospect of not being the focal point of our attack. Its all very conflicting and for me it just doesnt work.

2 very different styles of play and that primarily is what has gone wrong regarding Carroll in a Liverpool top. We can rightly blame the quality of crossing and how our wide players have gone about supplying the big man, but Im not sure even Kenny is convinced that Andy Carroll fits our style of play at the moment.

[Thommo's perm]

He's been doing a lot better lately and hopefully he can continue that.  Even when he doesn't score he often causes defenders havoc on corners etc that lead to the likes of Agger, Skrtel scoring.

Still think we should be in the market for a prolific striker this summer though.  And we should keep Andy

Correct. Carroll is causing a distraction which frees up others.






Torres will be free in the summer...

[Thommo's perm]

another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.

not just the standard of crossing but the positions that we cross from. a lot of the time the crosses are floated in from far to deep a position to be effective. we hardly ever score from crosses pulled back from the byline because we don't get in behind teams. that's why the mancs are particularly effective, especially when valencia plays.

yeah good point mate, in terms of the deliveries themselves i dont know if our poor crossing is down to players trying to do too much with the ball (i.e trying to put too much pace or whip on it etc) but with carroll in the side the delivery doesnt have to be perfect, you dont need a textbook beckham-esque or gerrard-esque flat cross with plenty of pace on it just waiting to be knocked in, he just needs something that he has a fighting chance of winning.
suarez`s goal against brighton came after downing (i think) just stood a ball up at the far post, it wasnt a great cross, it was just a percentage ball lobbed up there for anyone to win but thats all carroll needs half the time.
a percentage ball + andy carroll + supporting players = goals, that formula worked well at newcastle and it`s worked here when we`ve used it too.

Gary Mac used to float the ball in just over the penalty spot. Perfect for the likes of Hyppia to get his head on. We need to stop panicing wo whip the ball in and place it where we want it to go. The chuckle brothers need to watch LFC TV to see how to cross the thing

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

another issue is the standard of our crossing, it`s woeful, we either hit the first man or sky the thing right over the goalmouth and one bounce later it`s a throw in on the far side.

not just the standard of crossing but the positions that we cross from. a lot of the time the crosses are floated in from far to deep a position to be effective. we hardly ever score from crosses pulled back from the byline because we don't get in behind teams. that's why the mancs are particularly effective, especially when valencia plays.

yeah good point mate, in terms of the deliveries themselves i dont know if our poor crossing is down to players trying to do too much with the ball (i.e trying to put too much pace or whip on it etc) but with carroll in the side the delivery doesnt have to be perfect, you dont need a textbook beckham-esque or gerrard-esque flat cross with plenty of pace on it just waiting to be knocked in, he just needs something that he has a fighting chance of winning.
suarez`s goal against brighton came after downing (i think) just stood a ball up at the far post, it wasnt a great cross, it was just a percentage ball lobbed up there for anyone to win but thats all carroll needs half the time.
a percentage ball + andy carroll + supporting players = goals, that formula worked well at newcastle and it`s worked here when we`ve used it too.

While I do agree to some extent with the point you are trying to make here, I think the problem extends a little beyond our poor crossing of the ball. Downing in particular has been dissapointing with his crossing I'll give you that but for me that again largely goes back to the style of football we are trying to play rather than the players consistently failing to deliver quality balls in the box.

Too often, we see Downing, Bellamy or Kuyt taking an extra touch or backward pass to try and bring more players into the equation higher up the pitch. We try to pass it until the space is created and we depend largely on players getting inside the box with the ball rather than taking the direct approach and just crossing it or hoofing it in there. It has to be said that with players like Suarez, Bellamy and Gerrard being the best attacking players on offer it seems like the logical thing to do.

But then comes Andy Carroll, and everything needs to be done differently. For starters, if we are going to rely on Carroll as our main attacking outlet (and Im not saying we should) then we'll need to bring in better wide players than Downing, Kuyt and Maxi. We'll also need to find a different way of utilizing Suarez because he definitely wont be relishing the prospect of not being the focal point of our attack. Its all very conflicting and for me it just doesnt work.

2 very different styles of play and that primarily is what has gone wrong regarding Carroll in a Liverpool top. We can rightly blame the quality of crossing and how our wide players have gone about supplying the big man, but Im not sure even Kenny is convinced that Andy Carroll fits our style of play at the moment.

it`s not a choice between passing football or direct footy mate, it`s not an either / or situation, what you are doing is building a team that asks teams different questions.
as good as torres and gerrard were teams soon figured that one out and in the end teams just learned to isolate them up the pitch.
the two best liverpool sides i watched both had target men centre forwards leading the line, aldo was worse than carroll in terms of his general play outside the box but he got onto the end of some great, fluid, flowing moves.
peter beardsley`s game didnt suffer because we had a big man who was good in the air leading the line just like kenny dalglish`s didnt a decade earlier when davey jonno was his strike partner. both were similar in style to suarez.
a big percentage of aldo`s goals were headers but no one said that side were ale house.

[Igor Zidane]

Well i'm quite happy to eat humble pie and say was wrong aslong as the lad keeps improving and playing the way he is.

[Thommo's perm]

Well i'm quite happy to eat humble pie and say was wrong aslong as the lad keeps improving and playing the way he is.

Make sure you save some for the others mate

[Kerry07]

Well i'm quite happy to eat humble pie and say was wrong aslong as the lad keeps improving and playing the way he is.

Make sure you save some for the others mate

Poor Thommos starving

[Thommo's perm]

Well i'm quite happy to eat humble pie and say was wrong aslong as the lad keeps improving and playing the way he is.

Make sure you save some for the others mate

Poor Thommos starving

Haha my reply has been deleted
It must have been too rude
Ah well

[woof woof !]

Haha my reply has been deleted
It must have been too rude
Ah well

That was my mistake Thommo, was doing a bit of hoovering, attempting to remove some of the from the thread and I accidentally removed some of the riveting  exchanges between you and Kerry instead of all the sh'ite about Andy Carrol.

Maybe you and Kerry should start your own thread in the Gen Chat section cause I'm sure there's kun'ts in here who will continue to try and hijack this thread by posting about Andy Carrol just because the thread title mentions his name.