Liverpool FC Forum

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:01 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:yeah sure let's all continue to have faith in players who are for the future while the present is being neglected. there's a reason why we've not won the league in over 20 years, and this is one of it - mediocrity on the pitch.

not sure that i totally agree with you mate, yeah some of the players we have signed over the past 20 years just havent been good enough thats blindingly obvious but i think the biggest factor has been that we have gradually moved away from what made us great - our teamwork.
we`ve gone from being a great team to a team that relies on individuals to win games for us.
in our european heyday some of the greatest players who have ever laced up a pair of boots played for our rivals in europe, barcelona alone broke the world record in the mid 70`s on johann cruyff and in the early 80`s on diego maradona and other continental sides of that era had the likes of platini, beckenbauer, kempes, zico, ruminegge, breitner, rossi etc etc on their books.
we never had the best 11 individuals in europe but we had the best team.
it used to frustrate some fans back in the day why we never seemed to sign a eddie gray, stan bowles or tony currie type or another flair player of that ilk that were all in vogue in the 70`s but paisley understood that it wasnt about how good the individual was it was about could he be part of a team? was he a `liverpool player?`, just because you were a good player didnt neccessarily mean you be a `liverpool player`.
what made us great was that we had 11 players who worked in such a way that we became greater than the sum of our individual parts, shankly and paisley built teams.
in recent years we have relied on individuals to produce a moment of brilliance to win us games just like the barcelona`s, real madrid`s and juventus`s did back in the day.
years ago we didnt need a maradona, we just seemed to string 4 or 5 unspectacular passes together and next minute someone would have a clear chance at goal.
it looked unspectacular but the skill was in the movement off the ball, players made the player in possessions job easy by taking up a position that made his pass easy.
over the past 20 years too many players have just passed the ball to a mcmanaman or a gerrard and expected them to do something.
you want players that pass the ball but not the buck with it.
henderson reminds me of the players we used to have, neat and tidy in possession and tons of energy.
as mad as it sounds we never conquered the footballing world with the likes of suarez and gerrard, we actually conquered it with the likes of henderson.

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:05 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
red till i die!! wrote:
stmichael wrote:
red till i die!! wrote:i think he has an ego that his talent cant match

on what do you base the assumption that he has an ego? i've heard people speak who know the lad and it's quite the opposite.

obviously i dont know him personally but he doesnt seem to want to up his game.he has been mediocre since the sunderland game and is constantly handed a jersey every week so imo he thinks he is doing well enough to warrant it.
he is a young lad who has moved to a massive club for a riduculous fee so its my assumption that he thinks he is much better than he is.

See above

im not saying he is full of self importance or anything but he obviously feels he is doing quite well when its quite the opposite.

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:08 pm

red till i die!! wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
red till i die!! wrote:
stmichael wrote:
red till i die!! wrote:i think he has an ego that his talent cant match

on what do you base the assumption that he has an ego? i've heard people speak who know the lad and it's quite the opposite.

obviously i dont know him personally but he doesnt seem to want to up his game.he has been mediocre since the sunderland game and is constantly handed a jersey every week so imo he thinks he is doing well enough to warrant it.
he is a young lad who has moved to a massive club for a riduculous fee so its my assumption that he thinks he is much better than he is.

See above

im not saying he is full of self importance or anything but he obviously feels he is doing quite well when its quite the opposite.

I actually meant this:

"If a players name is consistently on the team sheet it confirms to him that he is playing well and doing the right things. This was my objection to Lucas when he was dogsh'it.
I remember Heskey getting asked if he felt he was doing enough after being criticised for coasting through games. He said: "I get picked for my club and my country so I must be doing something right". So absolving himself from not doing better or trying harder.
Theres a fine line between wanting to boost someones confidence and allowing them to be ineffectual so as not to shatter their confidence."

Rather than you thinking he was billy big balls

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:19 pm

lol,thought you were referring to micks post as i thought what i said was self explanatory.
fwiw i agree with you in the example you listed except for the billy big balls bit.

by **Tim LFC** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:21 pm

I find it absurd to state Hendo has a big ego. From what I've heard and read he is very much down to earth and a quiet type of guy. He's always trying to improve and if people cannot see his potential then they perhaps never will. Yes we paid big money, I do not think we paid 20m for him but we did pay a lot. However Hendo will be with this club throughout the prime of his career and I fully believe he'll become an important player. I think he would link up excellently with Lucas in CM personally. For me, he's unlike your typical English midfielder. He's more like a continental midfielder with technique, touch and very good at keeping the ball. People may be wondering why we sold Meireles but in a few seasons time they'll see why we got rid and put faith in Hendo. And lastly the lad certainly does have vision, just watch his pass against City for Downing's chance, it was a magnificent first timed pass which had it been someone like Cleverly would of been wanked over in the press.

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:47 pm

Tim LFC wrote:I find it absurd to state Hendo has a big ego. From what I've heard and read he is very much down to earth and a quiet type of guy. He's always trying to improve and if people cannot see his potential then they perhaps never will. Yes we paid big money, I do not think we paid 20m for him but we did pay a lot. However Hendo will be with this club throughout the prime of his career and I fully believe he'll become an important player. I think he would link up excellently with Lucas in CM personally. For me, he's unlike your typical English midfielder. He's more like a continental midfielder with technique, touch and very good at keeping the ball. People may be wondering why we sold Meireles but in a few seasons time they'll see why we got rid and put faith in Hendo. And lastly the lad certainly does have vision, just watch his pass against City for Downing's chance, it was a magnificent first timed pass which had it been someone like Cleverly would of been wanked over in the press.

maybe the guy is totally down to earth,still lives with his mom and drives a fiesta but that isnt the point that was been made.
most agree that he has potential for a few years down the line but must we constantly have to watch him underperform every week while we wait for that to happen.
if he is the good continental like mid with great technique,touch great holder of the ball and a hell of a pass on him that you reckon he is then he's hiding it cos its not showing week in week out.
yes he has had the odd pass like the one you mentioned which was magnificent but he has shown very little moments like it and its been so rare you could say its a fluke or like i did and say he has potential for a couple of years down the line but doesnt show enough to warrant a start every week and needs to up it.

by **stmichael** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:47 pm

it's a lazy stereotype that young players get a big move on a lot of money and then think that "they've made it" when in reality it applies to some but not others. i've seen plenty down the years. hell i've seen plenty at liverpool. le tallec for me was a prime example of a guy who's attitude and ego was extremely questionable for a guy who couldn't back it up on the pitch. i see nothing of this in henderson. as you said he's the polar opposite.

by **andy_g** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:07 pm

there's all sorts of crazy assumptions going on here about jordan henderson. he's arrogant, he thinks he's made it, etc etc etc. remember how benitez would take a player to one side straight after a man of the match performance and tell him how he could have done better? for all we know kenny is doing similar with henderson. i'm fairly sure he's quick to let the players know how they can do better however regularly they play, and most of the things we hear said to camera are very different from the things said in the dressing room and on the training pitch.

i see henderson so far as a very tidy and handy player. currently he makes a few errors every game but he also has stand out moments. apart from his unpraised hard work at keeping things moving he's able to spot a pass much better than adam, and often more accurately than gerrard. he's far from the finished article but he's got enough to show he'll get there.

remember not so very long ago when lucas and skrtel were total shít? they've both become fine players now and would probably be among the first on most people's team sheets now. henderson will be the same by next season.

by **Waldo** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:07 pm

He is being dicked about in terms of position. He is not a wide right midfielder IMO and is more suited to a Stevie G type role (i.e. advanced MF). The reality is he is struggling to fit into CM alongside Stevie G. He is one for future for sure but it will be 2-3 seasons until we see the best of him. He is still a young lad. Give him time.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:16 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:henderson reminds me of the players we used to have, neat and tidy in possession and tons of energy.

how many assists and goals has he got this season? he doesn't make a difference when he is on the pitch. i just don't see it. the players we used to have were Alonso, Mashcherano, Sissoko, Barnes, Redknapp, McManaman, etc. in comparison to them, he makes minimal impact.

he is poor, and has done nothing to justify his continued starting presence on the field. the fact that you can actually endorse it just shows you're willing to accept mediocrity. put it this way, our best player (Suarez), would be just another player at a team like Barca, City or Real. as long as the club continues to put faith on these experimental long term prospects, we will never be able to compete for the top honors both in England and Europe.

by **andy_g** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:25 pm

one goal and one assist so far as i recall. football is a team game though... remember that.

by **Tim LFC** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:30 pm

red till i die!! wrote:
Tim LFC wrote:I find it absurd to state Hendo has a big ego. From what I've heard and read he is very much down to earth and a quiet type of guy. He's always trying to improve and if people cannot see his potential then they perhaps never will. Yes we paid big money, I do not think we paid 20m for him but we did pay a lot. However Hendo will be with this club throughout the prime of his career and I fully believe he'll become an important player. I think he would link up excellently with Lucas in CM personally. For me, he's unlike your typical English midfielder. He's more like a continental midfielder with technique, touch and very good at keeping the ball. People may be wondering why we sold Meireles but in a few seasons time they'll see why we got rid and put faith in Hendo. And lastly the lad certainly does have vision, just watch his pass against City for Downing's chance, it was a magnificent first timed pass which had it been someone like Cleverly would of been wanked over in the press.

maybe the guy is totally down to earth,still lives with his mom and drives a fiesta but that isnt the point that was been made.
most agree that he has potential for a few years down the line but must we constantly have to watch him underperform every week while we wait for that to happen.
if he is the good continental like mid with great technique,touch great holder of the ball and a hell of a pass on him that you reckon he is then he's hiding it cos its not showing week in week out.
yes he has had the odd pass like the one you mentioned which was magnificent but he has shown very little moments like it and its been so rare you could say its a fluke or like i did and say he has potential for a couple of years down the line but doesnt show enough to warrant a start every week and needs to up it.

He's been doing a lot of the work which Adam and Gerrard haven't been doing, I don't think we'll see the real Henderson till next season in all honesty. He is doing a job for the team in working hard, keeping the ball and keeping high energy levels. I understand your frustration but who would come in for Hendo? Spearing perhaps, I could also see why people would say Shelvey but that would leave us very open.

by **RedSi35** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:33 pm

We ( allegedly ) spend 20million on a midfielder...................and we dont know what his best position is? how much stupidity did we show there?

LM/CM/DM/RM/AM.................i think he has done a bit of all of those so far this season, and looked decent in none of those positions. Ok i get he is young and probably one for the future, but come on, there should be a few signs of promise somewhere.

He has been largely infective in the 30 odd games he has played this season. He has been a constant in the side, despite his obvious poor form. I think is Lucas was fit, he would have spent more time on the bench.

Players like Shelvey IMO have shown more promise, but that doesnt mean i personally am writing him off.

by **stmichael** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:35 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:how many assists and goals has he got this season? he doesn't make a difference when he is on the pitch.

well if that's what we're judging him on then we may aswell sell him now. adam has two goals and is in double fugure for assists and still a lot of fans don't want him in the side either.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:50 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:He just needs to look at videos of his performances and make sure he stops making the same stupid mistakes.

And yer know, at school, if only he'd used the paint by numbers technique.

He wouldn't have to get wet or muddy playing football.

:nod

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