Liverpool FC Forum

by **devaney** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:37 am

Duplicate

by **devaney** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:43 am

eds wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
laza wrote:Well if we are going to play the blame game there is only one person to blame.

Bloody Torres whose defection at one to midnight, which kicked off this mid season political overpriced Statement of intent signing in first place

Torres is a disloyal p'rick, but his leaving did not mean we had to rush into bringing in a replacement with a crazy last minute transfer dash. When we knew Torres was going, i dont think too many of us thought we were going to sign someone. There was no need.

We had just bought Suarez, we were sitting in midtable with nothing to fight for. The remaining four months should just have been a getting to know you period for Kenny and the players, introducing his methods to the team, and generally improve the mood of the place. Also during this period, identify the players we need to make us better, then in the summer, with the new funds (and the 50m from Torres), we have three months to sort out deals for our targets. Instead we rushed things, statement of intent may well have been the reason, unfortunately it was the worst possible statement as it ruined much of our credibility. Normally when u make a big money signing fans of other teams sit up and take note, the media likewise, and the stature of the team rises, but instead there was a disbelief that verged on mocking. The owners are very new to the game, and their naivety shone through with this transfer. They probably thought "we've only recently taken over the club to a big fanfare, we've just lost our star striker, we must appease the fans and show our intent and bring in an instant replacement". If this is so (and it does seem likely) they have got it completely wrong. You only need to look at the opening page of this thread to see the reaction. It was a signing that almost instantly removed much of the hope many of us had. With Torres gone, i was thinking towards the summer with great expectation., but that was stamped out when the yellow ticker went across SSN stating we had bid 30 million for Andy Carroll (the only relief was it had been turned down). Hoping against hope that that would be the end of it, we added another 5 million (the opportunistic newcastle guy who fleeced us knew about the Torres money). I felt at the time we had consigned ourselves to mediocrity, and id never felt so low about a new signing before.

As has been mentioned before this wasn't Andy's fault, he didnt sanction the deal. I have nothing personal againt him, he seems very well liked, and he was great with the kids at the hospital. Hes someone you want to do well. Its actually really unfair on him that this deal came about.. hes been thrust into an environment that is way out of his depth, with a price tag that is more than double his worth. Hes the 8th most expensive player in history. Its staggering beyond belief. It is easily the craziest transfer deal ever. This is the last post i will make mentioning this as i'm just repeating myself and it can appear like having an agenda against him. I think the fact most of us cannot get our heads around it is the reason we have kept going on about it, and we are reminded of it after every disastrous performance. Its also the reason why we would like to see the situation resolved so we can move on.

Can't disagree with any of this. Spot on mate.

What's worse is that Kenny was given another 50 million to spend at the start of this season and he pi**ed it away on rubbish like Adam, Downing and Henderson. I knew from day one he had gotten it wrong, and so had many fans on this forum. It was only a matter of time that we would slip into mid-table obscurity when we lost Suarez for a large portion of time.

If you think Kerry is Spot On mate I feel fkg sorry for you.

Kerry. Have you got a good word for anybody? You think that Torres was a disloyal pr.ick. Nando for a long time had not been playing well for Liverpool and looked very unsettled.That has not changed at Chelsea.He has never fully recovered from his injury and has lost some vital pace.Liverpool cashed in on an opportunity to make an amazing profit on a player who most of the time looks as though he has fallen out of love with the game.You are being amazingly naive if you think that his exit and transfer request were not skilfully manipulated by Comolli and the directors.Nando gave us some fantastic memories which you seem to have forgotten.You have the audacity to talk about loyalty.Just try reading all the negative comments that you write and ask yourself if you come across as a loyal supporter or a moaning whinging tw.at.

You criticise Kuyt to the hilt in several other posts and only last season he was Liverpool's top scorer and the 6th highest scorer in the Premiership.Take a look at this link: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats....cc=5739

You talk about the owners being naive and rushing into a replacement for Torres. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that we had just got rid of Hodgson who was not up to the job.Fans had started to show their dismay by not going to games.In the latter part of Hodgsons tenure attendances had dropped to 35,000.The club simply could not afford for that to continue.How do you think the fans would have reacted if we hadn't sourced a replacement for Torres given everything else that had happened.You would have accused Fenway of being a money grabbing American thieves! You also clearly don't appreciate the taxation implication of holding on to th £50m and spending none of it either.Your criticism is at base level Kerry and is one step lower than our gutter press.

by **yellsub66** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:59 am

When it comes to playing football and being a success in the 'pressure cooker' that is the Premier League, it is obvious that confidence plays a massive part in not only the strength and performance of a team but also that team's individual players.

Obviously talent, fitness and above all ATTITUDE comes into the equation as well.

Witness the once 'mercurial talent' that is Fernando Torres. He looks an absolute shadow of his former self whilst now playing for a club he was apparently desperate to leave us for so he could achieve his ambitions! Much of his decline can to put down to injury, a drop in pace and ultimately a loss of confidence and belief in his own abilities! However I believe that a player's attitude to the game and the team he is playing for has to be spot on....clearly Fernando's head is not where it should be.

So how does all this relate to our own Andy Carroll? Well for a start I don't think in a million years that he will ever reach the level of being a 'mercurial talent' within the premiership, whether this is playing for us or any other club. He will NEVER be a world class talent.....a goalscorer maybe in a team that plays to his strengths! His confidence may be completely shot to pieces, but for me it his his ATTITUDE which appears to stink. Whenever he is on the pitch he looks fed up and negative. He is constantly complaining to team mates, the ref and has the demeanour of a man who has the whole world against him. Does this seem familiar? (Fernando Torres in his last season with us??).

I believe that Andy Carroll is a fairly limited footballer. He may score goals in a team that plays direct football and is totally built around his one dimensional game (i.e Stoke) but that is not Liverpool FC. The fans demand successful but also 'attractive' pass and move football. We played towards the end of last season with this type of fast incisive football and it is no coincidence that Carroll barely featured.

Andy Carroll is simply a square peg in a round hole and doesn't fit into our team or style of play. I am sure 99% of Liverpool fans don't want us to play like Stoke. We cannot change the team and abandon our principles of pass and move in order to accommodate a £35 million misfit.

To me Carroll clearly doesn't want to be at Liverpool Football Club. It his not his fault that he has that £35 million pound millstone hanging around his neck. However he does have to display the character and the ability to rise above it...clearly he is failing on all fronts. His attitude appears to be awry? He should be busting a gut to win over the fans!! He should stay away from alcohol and nights out 100%!! He may have been in and out of the team like a yo-yo..but he has to ask himself if his performances and attitude have warranted a permanent berth in the team?

Unfortunately (in his defence) he is expected to impose himself in a team and city where it appears he doesn't want to be and he is also expected to flourish in a team playing the type of football which is clearly alien to him. How much would I be willing to bet that if he returned to Newcastle he would amazingly rediscover his mojo?

Both he and the club are in a no win situation and I really hope that the club admit that mistakes were made and move the lad on...ASAP....both for his sake and for the greater good of Liverpool Football Club

by **Redman in wales** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:22 pm

LIVERPOOL boss Kenny Dalglish has quickly rejected an Aston Villa inquiry for £35million striker Andy Carroll – proving that he wants the striker to stay at the club.

Sunday Express Sport can reveal that Villa manager Alex McLeish has tried to tempt Liverpool into a swap deal involving Carroll and his £24million hitman Darren Bent.

With indications coming out of Merseyside that England striker Bent was on Liverpool’s wanted list, the Midlands club contacted Anfield proposing an exchange deal.

Dalglish was adamant he didn’t want Carroll to leave and so any transfer discussions were cut short.

With Luis Suarez in the midst of an eight-game ban, Dalglish remains confident the 23-year-old former Newcastle star will regain the form which gained him three England caps.

But Villa are likely to try again in the summer if Carroll continues to struggle in front of the Kop.

FRom the Express

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:22 pm

yellsub66 wrote:When it comes to playing football and being a success in the 'pressure cooker' that is the Premier League, it is obvious that confidence plays a massive part in not only the strength and performance of a team but also that team's individual players.

Obviously talent, fitness and above all ATTITUDE comes into the equation as well.

Witness the once 'mercurial talent' that is Fernando Torres. He looks an absolute shadow of his former self whilst now playing for a club he was apparently desperate to leave us for so he could achieve his ambitions! Much of his decline can to put down to injury, a drop in pace and ultimately a loss of confidence and belief in his own abilities! However I believe that a player's attitude to the game and the team he is playing for has to be spot on....clearly Fernando's head is not where it should be.

So how does all this relate to our own Andy Carroll? Well for a start I don't think in a million years that he will ever reach the level of being a 'mercurial talent' within the premiership, whether this is playing for us or any other club. He will NEVER be a world class talent.....a goalscorer maybe in a team that plays to his strengths! His confidence may be completely shot to pieces, but for me it his his ATTITUDE which appears to stink. Whenever he is on the pitch he looks fed up and negative. He is constantly complaining to team mates, the ref and has the demeanour of a man who has the whole world against him. Does this seem familiar? (Fernando Torres in his last season with us??).

I believe that Andy Carroll is a fairly limited footballer. He may score goals in a team that plays direct football and is totally built around his one dimensional game (i.e Stoke) but that is not Liverpool FC. The fans demand successful but also 'attractive' pass and move football. We played towards the end of last season with this type of fast incisive football and it is no coincidence that Carroll barely featured.

Andy Carroll is simply a square peg in a round hole and doesn't fit into our team or style of play. I am sure 99% of Liverpool fans don't want us to play like Stoke. We cannot change the team and abandon our principles of pass and move in order to accommodate a £35 million misfit.

To me Carroll clearly doesn't want to be at Liverpool Football Club. It his not his fault that he has that £35 million pound millstone hanging around his neck. However he does have to display the character and the ability to rise above it...clearly he is failing on all fronts. His attitude appears to be awry? He should be busting a gut to win over the fans!! He should stay away from alcohol and nights out 100%!! He may have been in and out of the team like a yo-yo..but he has to ask himself if his performances and attitude have warranted a permanent berth in the team?

Unfortunately (in his defence) he is expected to impose himself in a team and city where it appears he doesn't want to be and he is also expected to flourish in a team playing the type of football which is clearly alien to him. How much would I be willing to bet that if he returned to Newcastle he would amazingly rediscover his mojo?

Both he and the club are in a no win situation and I really hope that the club admit that mistakes were made and move the lad on...ASAP....both for his sake and for the greater good of Liverpool Football Club

Very good post
I agree with the attitude theory and have been saying this for months. I dont know how to solve the problem of a young, immature man being thrust into the limelight due to his massive transfer fee and joining the biggest club in Europe if not the world. How do you legislate for such a situation? For me, Carroll is in turmoil because half of him believes he is worth the money and half of him knows he isnt. His constant being in, then out of the team cannot be good for his confidence, although I think that KK thinks he is doing whats best for the lad in order not to put too much pressure on him. He should have a straight run of games, make his numerous mistakes and fu'ck ups and hopefully start being the player he was. At the moment he is in limbo and its not helping him or the team. KK needs to play him and give him the opportunity to prove his worth. If he does then keep him. If he doesnt then fu'ck him off in the summer.

by **Redman in wales** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:23 pm

So, he might not be what we need, but would you swap Carroll for Bent?

by **dawson99** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:28 pm

Redman in wales wrote:So, he might not be what we need, but would you swap Carroll for Bent?

In a heartbeat

by **devaney** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:32 pm

Yellsub66. Interesting and balanced post. I'm no fan of Andy or his limited ability and to be honest I never have been but it simply is not all his fault. None of the new signings costing more than £15m except Suarez have been outstanding and Suarez has only scored five goals. Downing and Henderson were brought in as the supply lines to Carroll. That so far hasn't worked too well which is a bit of an understatement???

We now have an excellent defence and a midfield that is taking time to gel.Up front without Suarez the problem is clear for all to see.Losing Lucas and Gerrard at critical times hasn't helped.Some poor decisions also haven't helped. The woodwork has got in the way far too many times. And lady luck has disappeared into the abyss! Tactics and substitution decisions at times have been difficult to understand. The performance of the very silent Kop also leaves a lot to be desired. But in reality I don't think a massive amount is needed to make this into an exceptionally good team. One quality striker and midfielder would probably be enough.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Redman in wales wrote:So, he might not be what we need, but would you swap Carroll for Bent?

I doubt it
Bent is a proven goalscorer. But he is a mercenary and a trouble causer. He is moody and childish and a disruptive element who would bring things crashing around his ears then walk away with another bundle of dosh.

by **Kerry07** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:12 pm

devaney wrote:Kerry. Have you got a good word for anybody? You think that Torres was a disloyal pr.ick.

If you dont think that Torres, was a disloyal p.rick, you're on your own with that thinking.

Kenny had just joined the club (didnt give Kenny a chance), we had just brought in new owners (didnt give the new owners a chance, infact they had just spent 23m on a world class partner for him). What Torres did was a disgrace, and may he rot.

by **Kerry07** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:18 pm

Redman in wales wrote:So, he might not be what we need, but would you swap Carroll for Bent?

This doesnt require any debating.

If the story is genuine (Carroll plus cash) it depends on how much Villa want.

Although many fans wouldnt be overly happy with Bent, he is a step up, and right now thats what we need.

by **KennyisGod....still** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:35 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
devaney wrote:Kerry. Have you got a good word for anybody? You think that Torres was a disloyal pr.ick.

If you dont think that Torres, was a disloyal p.rick, you're on your own with that thinking.

Kenny had just joined the club (didnt give Kenny a chance), we had just brought in new owners (didnt give the new owners a chance, infact they had just spent 23m on a world class partner for him). What Torres did was a disgrace, and may he rot.

what torres did had been comin from a mile away, and whether we like it or not if Carroll's been a 35mill failure then whats torres been for the chavs? we mayb didn wanna lose him but we walked away with 15 mill and a player thats done no worse than torres since he walked. Look at it that way and it dont look so bad.

Owen never gave Rafa a chance and look how that turned out ffs, teams move on an players evolve - the only consistent thing is the fans/supporters call em what u will. We can argue Carroll aint justified his transfer fee but he never negotiated it, the clubs did. We were in a very sticky situ with the window about to close and safe in the knowledge we probly wudn get 50 mill for torres come may.... pop quiz hotshot, what would u have done? Only thing was we were also stuck when it came to replacements with no back up available and Carroll was out there. Read the post previously that mentioned the tax liabilities on 50 mill if we hadn spent it, also take into account Fenway's perception had they pocketed it and then search for who could have been bought in at the last minute to appease fans just losin an idol..... While Carroll aint perfect (far from it) he's young and maybe able to be moulded a bit.

we remain a work in progress playin better football than under hodgson, even if the likes of Downing Henderson and Adam aint rippin no trees up an Carroll aint scorin enough. Rome wernt built in a day, Liverpool wont be resurrected inside 3 years, but these players may actually play a part in that recovery over the next 18 months even if right this minute it aint resultin in lots of victories. Can you honestly say the last 12 months has been worse than the previous 12?

by **valo26** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:10 pm

If you dont think that Torres, was a disloyal p.rick, you're on your own with that thinking.

i still love the guy for all the great things he did for the club. it was a pleasure watching him perform in a red shirt and i sincerely hope he can find his magical form again whichever team he plays for.

by **Greavesie** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:27 pm

valo26 wrote:
If you dont think that Torres, was a disloyal p.rick, you're on your own with that thinking.

i still love the guy for all the great things he did for the club. it was a pleasure watching him perform in a red shirt and i sincerely hope he can find his magical form again whichever team he plays for.

erm, not in the premier league...

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:14 pm

Redman in wales wrote:So, he might not be what we need, but would you swap Carroll for Bent?

Not a chance , Bent is just older dogshIte .

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