Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:46 am

Going back to the system I think this post from another forum sums it up best in terms of why we could afford to let Mereiles go.

In Dalglish's system, Meireles plays a role that's filled scarcely less competently by Maxi. A generic midfield runner who can be shifted around the team as and where there are gaps. Noone will pay anything for Maxi, while they will for Meireles, plus Maxi generally has a better scoring record than Meireles, whose 5 goals last season was better than his average at Porto, but which were all scored in a single spree. Going by evidence, it's reasonable to expect Maxi to contribute at least as much as Meireles in Dalglish's system.

Now if you claim that he's best as a deep lying playmaker I think the above helps explain why under Kenny we could afford to let him go when we have other deep lying central midfielders in the squad.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:49 am

Simari wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
stmichael wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:So aside from scoring goals, making a £1 million profit on him, changing games for the better for us, he is a squad player.

Is it just me who is failing to see the argument here?

he had a purple patch when he scored 5 goals in 6 games.

charlie adam will contribute far more in terms of goals, assists and generally having an impact on our play over the course of a season than this guy did.

Let me make this clear. I am not dismissing the players we have signed, not for a minute. What I am angry about is letting one of our best players leave, for a relatively small fee to one of our rivals. I have total faith in who Dalglish has signed, but I am really miffed about letting a fantastic player leave for next to nothing to our rivals.

I really do think this is going to hurt us. Its this that is eating away at me, if we sell Meireles, ok, but to chelsea? no. That is plain stupid.

Or perhaps help us by making those that Kenny has put his trust in, realise they have to perform to the highest standards?

Don't get too down Khar

He would definitely have given us depth in squad, but I'm certain this will be addressed in January.

Well, here I am hoping. I cant help the dissapointing feeling I have.

by **sgs** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:49 am

aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:
aCe' wrote:As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Just out of curiosity what do you think his best position is? Hodgson didn't have a clue and I don't think Kenny did either, hence his reluctance to play him.

Sometimes being played in different positions can be seen as making you a "jack of all trades master of none" (unless you're steven gerrard). It was complete ineptitude on Hodgson's part that he kept playing Mereiles wide when he had no history of playing there in the past at Porto. He'd try his best but looked lost. For me he looked at his best when playing off the striker away at Wolves when I thought he was superb. However now we don't really play with a man in the hole as such and even if we did you'd have Suarez in that position everyday of the week.

Hes a central midfielder. For Portugal he plays as a deep playmaker and thats where he plays his best football. Alongside Lucas (the Adam role) he would have shone imo.

He has an excellent range of passing that he didnt get to display with us given the positions we played him. Still, from his through balls and linkup play you could tell that his game intelligence was right up there. He also has an engine that is vastly underrated by the fans and according to the club he was the second fittest player in the side closely behind Kuyt. I think his all round contribution was impressive and the way he got himself into good positions through off the ball movement is not something you see everyday from a player in his position. Chelsea imo have got a real bargain here and if paired with Essien down the middle they can really make things tick for them. I remember in some other thread talking about Chelsea needing to go back to a 4-3-3 and with Meireles, Lampard and Essien they have 3 of the best in terms of all round qualities. Add that to their impressive attack and defense and all of a sudden they are back to being some way ahead of us.

I absolutely dont see the logic in letting a good player leave (same with Murphy, Hamman, Sissoko, Riera...etc) especially if we are not 100% certain that we have improved in the department. Players generally improve from one season to the next when they stay at a club and its never a good idea changing the makeup of the side year in year out. For me, its one of the main if not the main reason why ManUtd are where they are today.

I don't get it; we have already improved on Raul which is why he cannot get a starting shirt.

And to suggest he play ahead of Adams betrays a very poor knowledge of the game.

The left footed Adams as a complement to Lucas is the reason we finally have balance in central midfield.

2ndly the range of passing that Adams brings to the game is beyond the abilities of Mierreles

by **dundreamin** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:49 am

He,s gone GET OVER IT end of thread mods

by **Simari** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:49 am

aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:
aCe' wrote:As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Just out of curiosity what do you think his best position is? Hodgson didn't have a clue and I don't think Kenny did either, hence his reluctance to play him.

Sometimes being played in different positions can be seen as making you a "jack of all trades master of none" (unless you're steven gerrard). It was complete ineptitude on Hodgson's part that he kept playing Mereiles wide when he had no history of playing there in the past at Porto. He'd try his best but looked lost. For me he looked at his best when playing off the striker away at Wolves when I thought he was superb. However now we don't really play with a man in the hole as such and even if we did you'd have Suarez in that position everyday of the week.

Hes a central midfielder. For Portugal he plays as a deep playmaker and thats where he plays his best football. Alongside Lucas (the Adam role) he would have shone imo.

He has an excellent range of passing that he didnt get to display with us given the positions we played him. Still, from his through balls and linkup play you could tell that his game intelligence was right up there. He also has an engine that is vastly underrated by the fans and according to the club he was the second fittest player in the side closely behind Kuyt. I think his all round contribution was impressive and the way he got himself into good positions through off the ball movement is not something you see everyday from a player in his position. Chelsea imo have got a real bargain here and if paired with Essien down the middle they can really make things tick for them. I remember in some other thread talking about Chelsea needing to go back to a 4-3-3 and with Meireles, Lampard and Essien they have 3 of the best in terms of all round qualities. Add that to their impressive attack and defense and all of a sudden they are back to being some way ahead of us.

I absolutely dont see the logic in letting a good player leave (same with Murphy, Hamman, Sissoko, Riera...etc) especially if we are not 100% certain that we have improved in the department. Players generally improve from one season to the next when they stay at a club and its never a good idea changing the makeup of the side year in year out. For me, its one of the main if not the main reason why ManUtd are where they are today.

You do realise that Essien is out well into next year and Lampard is a fat and old at 33?

Buying Raul is a stop-gap measure for them, not a long term plan.

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:49 am

damjan193 wrote:I can't believe this, what happened to squad depth?!?

yeah lets all panic. we're really screwed now. what are the owners thinking bringing all those really exciting players in but letting the deadwood and mereiles go.

it's the strongest squad we've had in years.

by **crim cram** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:52 am

dundreamin wrote:He,s gone GET OVER IT end of thread mods

c'mon mate, let us cry in our beer a bit

by **NiftyNeil** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:54 am

Reasons to be down:
1. We've lost a decent squad player to one of our rivals.

Reasons to be positive:
1. We've just got £15m for a 28 yr old squad player who doesn't get in the starting line up.
2. We've signed one of the best young centre halves in World football.
3. We've signed 3 midfielders who all got more assists than RM did last year.
4. We've got rid of Degen, Poulsen, N'Gog, Cole, Koncheski.
5. We've got Gerrard coming back real soon.
6. We've got Johnson coming back real soon.
7. We've got some of the most exciting youngsters in the country coming through.
8. We've got Suarez.
9. Kenny's our manager.
10. G&H are gone!!
11. Everton's just lost their best player in years!!
12. Arsenal have just replaced Fabregas and Nasri with Yossi and Arteta!!

I could go on. You complainers should remember this time 12 months ago. I'm a little disappointed but hey-ho, the glass is more than half full for me.

by **aCe'** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:54 am

stmichael wrote:Going back to the system I think this post from another forum sums it up best in terms of why we could afford to let Mereiles go.

In Dalglish's system, Meireles plays a role that's filled scarcely less competently by Maxi. A generic midfield runner who can be shifted around the team as and where there are gaps. Noone will pay anything for Maxi, while they will for Meireles, plus Maxi generally has a better scoring record than Meireles, whose 5 goals last season was better than his average at Porto, but which were all scored in a single spree. Going by evidence, it's reasonable to expect Maxi to contribute at least as much as Meireles in Dalglish's system.

Now if you claim that he's best as a deep lying playmaker I think the above helps explain why under Kenny we could afford to let him go when we have other deep lying central midfielders in the squad.

no it doesnt really help explain anything mate. Just because we played Meireles in an advanced role and he played well doesnt mean Maxi will now all of a sudden fill his boots. Doesnt make sense.

His competition in the side comes from our 2 new signings, Adam and Henderson. Its as simple as that. All 3 of them need to be paired with a defensive midfielder to play their game and they each offer something different. Overall, Id have Meireles ahead of the pair and the only player who would have gotten in the side ahead of him for me would have been Gerrard in that position.

by **damjan193** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:57 am

stmichael wrote:
damjan193 wrote:I can't believe this, what happened to squad depth?!?

yeah lets all panic. we're really screwed now. what are the owners thinking bringing all those really exciting players in but letting the deadwood and mereiles go.

it's the strongest squad we've had in years.

Yeah OK, maybe I over reacted a bit there but I was just so disappointed when I saw that we sold him and to fuking Chelsea. But it's still a stupid move, Raul was one of our best players last season and deserved his place here. Henderson and Adam had just arrived and took his place right away which isn't fair at all IMO. Another thing is that I thought we were working on squad depth, on our number of players. I thought that we wanted to have a good bench as well which IMO is very much needed if we want to challenge for the tittle.

by **aCe'** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:04 am

sgs wrote:
aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:
aCe' wrote:As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Just out of curiosity what do you think his best position is? Hodgson didn't have a clue and I don't think Kenny did either, hence his reluctance to play him.

Sometimes being played in different positions can be seen as making you a "jack of all trades master of none" (unless you're steven gerrard). It was complete ineptitude on Hodgson's part that he kept playing Mereiles wide when he had no history of playing there in the past at Porto. He'd try his best but looked lost. For me he looked at his best when playing off the striker away at Wolves when I thought he was superb. However now we don't really play with a man in the hole as such and even if we did you'd have Suarez in that position everyday of the week.

Hes a central midfielder. For Portugal he plays as a deep playmaker and thats where he plays his best football. Alongside Lucas (the Adam role) he would have shone imo.

He has an excellent range of passing that he didnt get to display with us given the positions we played him. Still, from his through balls and linkup play you could tell that his game intelligence was right up there. He also has an engine that is vastly underrated by the fans and according to the club he was the second fittest player in the side closely behind Kuyt. I think his all round contribution was impressive and the way he got himself into good positions through off the ball movement is not something you see everyday from a player in his position. Chelsea imo have got a real bargain here and if paired with Essien down the middle they can really make things tick for them. I remember in some other thread talking about Chelsea needing to go back to a 4-3-3 and with Meireles, Lampard and Essien they have 3 of the best in terms of all round qualities. Add that to their impressive attack and defense and all of a sudden they are back to being some way ahead of us.

I absolutely dont see the logic in letting a good player leave (same with Murphy, Hamman, Sissoko, Riera...etc) especially if we are not 100% certain that we have improved in the department. Players generally improve from one season to the next when they stay at a club and its never a good idea changing the makeup of the side year in year out. For me, its one of the main if not the main reason why ManUtd are where they are today.

I don't get it; we have already improved on Raul which is why he cannot get a starting shirt.

And to suggest he play ahead of Adams betrays a very poor knowledge of the game.

The left footed Adams as a complement to Lucas is the reason we finally have balance in central midfield.

2ndly the range of passing that Adams brings to the game is beyond the abilities of Mierreles

I don't get it; we have already improved on Raul which is why he cannot get a starting shirt.

Have we ? Henderson is obviously not an improvement and Adam is still questionable given his quality and mixed performances so far.

And to suggest he play ahead of Adams betrays a very poor knowledge of the game.

Yet another fcking clueless statement. Adam lacks mobility and loses the ball a little too much for a central midfielder. His defensive game is questionable and all those factors paired with a tendency to play the long ball dont aid much in maintaining a fluid style of play or controlling the tempo of the game. When Carroll is played is when we'll really have problems with Adam imo. For starters, we'll be short on numbers in the middle and his lack of mobility will mean that he stays deeper and relies more heavily on playing the longer ball thus leading to us giving up possession for large chunks of the game. Add to that his lack of tackling skills and we're in trouble at both ends. He's better suited (Adam) to a 3man midfield where he gets protection from 2 players and gets more freedom and space to pick out his passes but that doesnt really make him a better option than Meireles.

The left footed Adams as a complement to Lucas is the reason we finally have balance in central midfield.

Balance in the middle ? We'll see about that.

2ndly the range of passing that Adams brings to the game is beyond the abilities of Mierreles.

Range of passing doesnt mean jack sht ! Its all about the transition of play and Adam more often than not does a sht job bringing other into play. Meireles on the other hand helps the players around him get into the game and further has the option of carrying the ball himself to get attacks started. Long ball to Carroll isnt my cup of tea but if its how you think the game should be played then its your choice.

by **aCe'** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:08 am

Simari wrote:
aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:
aCe' wrote:As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Just out of curiosity what do you think his best position is? Hodgson didn't have a clue and I don't think Kenny did either, hence his reluctance to play him.

Sometimes being played in different positions can be seen as making you a "jack of all trades master of none" (unless you're steven gerrard). It was complete ineptitude on Hodgson's part that he kept playing Mereiles wide when he had no history of playing there in the past at Porto. He'd try his best but looked lost. For me he looked at his best when playing off the striker away at Wolves when I thought he was superb. However now we don't really play with a man in the hole as such and even if we did you'd have Suarez in that position everyday of the week.

Hes a central midfielder. For Portugal he plays as a deep playmaker and thats where he plays his best football. Alongside Lucas (the Adam role) he would have shone imo.

He has an excellent range of passing that he didnt get to display with us given the positions we played him. Still, from his through balls and linkup play you could tell that his game intelligence was right up there. He also has an engine that is vastly underrated by the fans and according to the club he was the second fittest player in the side closely behind Kuyt. I think his all round contribution was impressive and the way he got himself into good positions through off the ball movement is not something you see everyday from a player in his position. Chelsea imo have got a real bargain here and if paired with Essien down the middle they can really make things tick for them. I remember in some other thread talking about Chelsea needing to go back to a 4-3-3 and with Meireles, Lampard and Essien they have 3 of the best in terms of all round qualities. Add that to their impressive attack and defense and all of a sudden they are back to being some way ahead of us.

I absolutely dont see the logic in letting a good player leave (same with Murphy, Hamman, Sissoko, Riera...etc) especially if we are not 100% certain that we have improved in the department. Players generally improve from one season to the next when they stay at a club and its never a good idea changing the makeup of the side year in year out. For me, its one of the main if not the main reason why ManUtd are where they are today.

You do realise that Essien is out well into next year and Lampard is a fat and old at 33?

Buying Raul is a stop-gap measure for them, not a long term plan.

We'll also have to wait and see about that. Chelsea's biggest problem is that they have trouble creating space and attacks through the middle. The loss of Essien and the fact that they now play 2 upfront are the main reasons for that. Lampard at 33 is still a top player and when used right will make an impact for their side. Its like dismissing Gerrard's future at the club because hes injured. Ridiculous.

Stop gap ? Im guessing you would play Ramires or Mikel ahead of Meireles when Essien is back ?

by **Zidane** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:14 am

Get a grip lads, he's really not that good to be kickin up such a fuss. We paid a lot for him and so have Chelsea. He had a lot of memorable goals which is probably why people think he's so good but he wasn't that good. he was one of our better players because we had a :censored:

squad. This will not effect us that much and it won't really boost Chelsea that much. Chelsea would have been favorites to finish above us with or without him so don't act as if this will be the difference or anything. Chelsea have a better squad than us either way but we'll be ok.

Henderson will contribute more this season than Raul did last season and you can quote me on that. Barring injuries and all.

by **crim cram** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:16 am

aCe' wrote:
Simari wrote:
aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:
aCe' wrote:As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Just out of curiosity what do you think his best position is? Hodgson didn't have a clue and I don't think Kenny did either, hence his reluctance to play him.

Sometimes being played in different positions can be seen as making you a "jack of all trades master of none" (unless you're steven gerrard). It was complete ineptitude on Hodgson's part that he kept playing Mereiles wide when he had no history of playing there in the past at Porto. He'd try his best but looked lost. For me he looked at his best when playing off the striker away at Wolves when I thought he was superb. However now we don't really play with a man in the hole as such and even if we did you'd have Suarez in that position everyday of the week.

Hes a central midfielder. For Portugal he plays as a deep playmaker and thats where he plays his best football. Alongside Lucas (the Adam role) he would have shone imo.

He has an excellent range of passing that he didnt get to display with us given the positions we played him. Still, from his through balls and linkup play you could tell that his game intelligence was right up there. He also has an engine that is vastly underrated by the fans and according to the club he was the second fittest player in the side closely behind Kuyt. I think his all round contribution was impressive and the way he got himself into good positions through off the ball movement is not something you see everyday from a player in his position. Chelsea imo have got a real bargain here and if paired with Essien down the middle they can really make things tick for them. I remember in some other thread talking about Chelsea needing to go back to a 4-3-3 and with Meireles, Lampard and Essien they have 3 of the best in terms of all round qualities. Add that to their impressive attack and defense and all of a sudden they are back to being some way ahead of us.

I absolutely dont see the logic in letting a good player leave (same with Murphy, Hamman, Sissoko, Riera...etc) especially if we are not 100% certain that we have improved in the department. Players generally improve from one season to the next when they stay at a club and its never a good idea changing the makeup of the side year in year out. For me, its one of the main if not the main reason why ManUtd are where they are today.

You do realise that Essien is out well into next year and Lampard is a fat and old at 33?

Buying Raul is a stop-gap measure for them, not a long term plan.

We'll also have to wait and see about that. Chelsea's biggest problem is that they have trouble creating space and attacks through the middle. The loss of Essien and the fact that they now play 2 upfront are the main reasons for that. Lampard at 33 is still a top player and when used right will make an impact for their side. Its like dismissing Gerrard's future at the club because hes injured. Ridiculous.

Stop gap ? Im guessing you would play Ramires or Mikel ahead of Meireles when Essien is back ?

The fact that he's a stop gap makes the case agianst selling him to Chelsea even stronger. We could have "hurt" them by not letting them fill gaps that very much need filling in their squad.

Nonsensical

Sell him back to Porto or something, not Chelsea. This transfer could cost us 30-40 million if we don't make it back to the Champions League.

by **Penguins** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:20 am

aCe' wrote:
stmichael wrote:In reply to Ace I saw us playing 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 against Bolton during the game at stages We have great flexibility and fluidity. Henderson is able to act as right midfielder or central midfielder in a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. Adam is perfectly capable of playing as a deep lying central midfielder in 4-2-3-1 or left-sided centre-mid in a 4-3-3. Suarez plays as a central striker or wide. Downing plays in a variety of roles including either flank or off the striker as he did at the Emirates. Hell at Villa, O'Neill even played him central midfield in a 3 at times. The only one I'll agree with you on is Carroll.

Alright then Mick, how can you sit there and tell me that he doesnt fit into our 'system' when we obviously dont have one, yet.

As far as I can tell, Meireles is one of our most versatile players as evident by the different positions he played for the club last season ( CM, LM, RM, AM, SS). All positions hes played with us, no ?

Bottom line is, Kenny is putting all his faith and trust on his new signings. When we signed Henderson and Adam my biggest concern was that our top players would get frozen out regardless of the performances of the new players simply because of their price tags. As of right now, its up to Henderson and Adam to prove to Kenny and all the Liverpool fans that it was the right call letting Meireles go. Big gamble and one we didnt need to take.

Im all for building a side with a core of British talent, but that doesnt mean we sell Reina and Suarez next to bring in Foster and Agbonlahor... We're moving in that direction though...

Totally agree. It's a big gamble all on Kenny.

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