Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:17 pm

As a follow up, the money is not an issue for me. As someone else said above, it's not as though we're putting our own hand in pocket to finance the transfer and so it's really up to John Henry and Co. to worry about how much the players cost. If they're prepared to sign the cheques, I'm prepared to applaud the outlay and move on.

Where money becomes a factor is in shaping expectations and that's where I think we should be cautious. We're already seeing a bit of it with Carroll ("never worth 35 million...") and I expect we'll hear similar grumbling about Henderson, Downing and Adam at times this season. But, if supporters get too obsessed with the transfer fee they place a massive burden on players who have no real control over the market conditions surrounding their sale. At the end of the day it's about the football: if they come in and improve the team, they were worth whatever the Fenway boys splashed out for them.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:17 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Amazed to see how many people are already aboard the Downing bandwagon and busy slagging off anyone who questions his potential worth to the club.

None of them in previous seasons have mooted Downing as a good signing for LFC but now that Kenny's gone in for him Downing is suddenly the answer to all our problems on the flanks.

IMO Downing is Mr Fcking Average, in all honesty I'd prefer it if we'd spent £20 mill on a key position in the back four and shoved Glen Johnson into a wide midefield role, but what the fk do I know, just trying to express my reservations about the signing of a player who has NEVER lived up to the speculation/hype thats surrounded him.

Despite my reservations he's now a red and he'll receive my support, hopefully he'll prove how wrong me and other doubters were about him OR maybe he'll show that the reasons for our lack of enthusiasm about his signing were not unfounded.

In the meantime this is a forum where opinions are expressed, so whilst we debate Downings abilities can we lay of the rush to condem those whose opinion of a player may differ from yours, as many have said he hasn't kicked a ball for us yet, we'll soon find out who was right and who was wrong.

(ps, I already know I'm right, Downing is shi'te )

signing of a player who has NEVER lived up to the speculation/hype thats surrounded him.

Which speculation and hype is that ?

Most of the negative towards Downing all stems from anytime he has played for England - for club over the last number of season he has lived up to his expectations - putting the ball in the box and creating chances from a wide area - as well as chipping in with goals . The Boro fans rated him , The villa fans rated him higher than Young .

What "Hype" is that ?

There was a 3 year period when Downing was touted as potentially the best wide player in the premiership, he never fulfilled that "potential", maybe that why he remained with such world beating clubs as Sunderland, Middlesboro and Villa

Most of the negative towards Downing all stems from anytime he has played for England

Two dozen times in six years, suggests that despite repeated opportunities he was unable to cement his place

The villa fans rated him higher than Young .

You win , Obviously you spend more time with the Villa fans than I do.

I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:19 pm

p.s. His name is Stewart not Stuart

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:22 pm

Hmmm, Stewart Downing, eh? Do you reckon Kenny's going to try and bring out his latent Scottish ancestry?

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:25 pm

Well he is achieving "Freedom" from Villa .

by **woof woof !** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:27 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

by **Greavesie** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:29 pm

Honestly people being realistic he's about the best we're gonna get as far as an established left footed left winger goes. Let's face it we aren't in Europe and the teams above us aren't going to be selling their players for us to finish ahead of them next season. We needed width, I think we've paid over the odds but I don't think there's going to be any players going for their genuine market value this summer bar Young, who only had a year on his contract remaining

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:35 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

But has no consistency and prefers to cut inside a lot . One week he would be outstanding and the next he would disappear for weeks like he has done all his career . He has also been known to be disruptive and has had a massive fallout with Carroll in the past. Heart , Drive and Determination is not something I have ever really heard before when talking about NZogbia - talented and skilful but lazy and inconsistent are words more associated with him . Downing certainly delivers a better more consistent cross than him and their prices would of been about the same .

by **ethanr** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:38 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

N'Zobgbia acts like an idiot tho. He's a good player, but sometimes he's a kunt too.

At Newcastle the manager said his name slightly wrong and he used that as an excuse to leave because "better clubs wanted him" even tho he ended up signing for Wigan (This was a season before Newcastle were relegated).

He uses excuses if he's not happy and any time a bigger club shows interest, he wants out. If manure or chelski or madrid came calling, he'd be off and make Dalglish look bad while doing it.

There's not doubt he's a talented player, but I've always worried about his attitude when he's been linked to us. Worth the risk? Yes, but it does become a risk. Also his crossing is decent but nowhere near Downing. He's more of a quick winger who just runs past people and cuts into the box.

And one more thing, defensively he quite easily gives up at times. If he's beat or somebody uses a move to get around him, he stops trying.

by **Greavesie** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:39 pm

has a fee been confirmed yet by anyone other than SlySports?

by **ethanr** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:40 pm

Wow Benny thanks.. I was in the middle of writing the exact same thing as you and apparently you beat me to it

by **woof woof !** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:49 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

But has no consistency and prefers to cut inside a lot . One week he would be outstanding and the next he would disappear for weeks like he has done all his career . He has also been known to be disruptive and has had a massive fallout with Carroll in the past. Heart , Drive and Determination is not something I have ever really heard before when talking about NZogbia - talented and skilful but lazy and inconsistent are words more associated with him . Downing certainly delivers a better more consistent cross than him and their prices would of been about the same .

H'mm , on the one hand we hear about how Kenny can transform a player then on the other hand despite Kennys management skill we hear from the armchair psychiatrists about how a players mental attitude is all wrong

Anyway, fk it, I'm bored. Downing is now a Red, next few months will prove your optimism or my pessimism right or wrong.

by **metalhead** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:56 pm

have you ever been optimistic woof

kidding

by **ethanr** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:00 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

But has no consistency and prefers to cut inside a lot . One week he would be outstanding and the next he would disappear for weeks like he has done all his career . He has also been known to be disruptive and has had a massive fallout with Carroll in the past. Heart , Drive and Determination is not something I have ever really heard before when talking about NZogbia - talented and skilful but lazy and inconsistent are words more associated with him . Downing certainly delivers a better more consistent cross than him and their prices would of been about the same .

H'mm , on the one hand we hear about how Kenny can transform a player then on the other hand despite Kennys management skill we hear from the armchair psychiatrists about how a players mental attitude is all wrong

Anyway, fk it, I'm bored. Downing is now a Red, next few months will prove your optimism or my pessimism right or wrong.

But woof there's a difference between the players Kenny has transformed on Liverpool to players like N'zogbia. Maxi, Kuyt, Johnson, Kelly, Meireles all got better under Dalglish, but they didn't have bad attitudes. In fact many of them had quite good attitudes.

If Kenny was able to change N'Zogbia's attitude, than more power to him.. But it's harder to change a players attitude then to make a player better, and that's quite possibly the challenge he'd have. Kenny and FSG don't want players with bad attitudes that are here just because they think they can use us as a stepping stone to something better. They want players who want to play for Liverpool. Adam clearly wanted to play for Liverpool as when other clubs showed interest, he stated he wanted to play for Liverpool. Same with Downing as when Arsenal came calling Downing said he wanted Liverpool over Arsenal.

But it's all speculation I suppose.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:07 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:I think he is prob one of the best wide players in the prem ( that we could realistically get ).

Just because he has played at Villa and Boro doesnt mean he isnt good enough .

Because he hasnt done well for England means nothing - Barnes didnt exactly tear up the international stage - its what he does for club that matters and its his club form that has been great over the last couple of seasons .

Who should we off bought for the left wing berth in your opinion ?

Honestly Benny I would have been happier with N'Zogbia, think the fella's got more heart , drive and determination.

But has no consistency and prefers to cut inside a lot . One week he would be outstanding and the next he would disappear for weeks like he has done all his career . He has also been known to be disruptive and has had a massive fallout with Carroll in the past. Heart , Drive and Determination is not something I have ever really heard before when talking about NZogbia - talented and skilful but lazy and inconsistent are words more associated with him . Downing certainly delivers a better more consistent cross than him and their prices would of been about the same .

H'mm , on the one hand we hear about how Kenny can transform a player then on the other hand despite Kennys management skill we hear from the armchair psychiatrists about how a players mental attitude is all wrong

Anyway, fk it, I'm bored. Downing is now a Red, next few months will prove your optimism or my pessimism right or wrong.

There is a difference between getting 10% extra desire and getting players to perform better compared to changing someones attitude and work ethic . Kenny is good but can't work miracles .

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