Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:52 pm

I bring this up because we don't really have one in the squad at the moment and it's blatant to see that we need a top class defensive midfielder moving forward if we want to compete against the very best.

It's amazing how football has evolved when you think about it. In the past the notion of a defensive or "holding midfielder" was simply laughed at. It was considered a cheats position and a waste of a shirt. Midfielders were meant to do their fair share of attacking and defending in equal measure. Souness was a prime example and was the best in the business. Later we had the likes of Ronnie Whelan and John Wark. Hell John Wark when he moved to Ipswich was considered to be a defensive midfielder and yet one season he scored 40 goals from that position. Nowaday's you'll be lucky if your so called "holding midfielder crosses the halfway line.

Every top team has such a player now. The best player I ever saw in this position was Redondo at Real Madrid. He allowed all the attacking flair that Real had to do their stuff. More recently Makelele was excellent although it does my head in when people refer to "the Makelele Role" like he somehow invented the role or something. Mikel or Ramires don't even compare and Essien is not a natural holding player.

Arsenal have been crying out for this type of player for years and yet Wenger refuses to see it for some bizarre reason. All their recent success was based first of all on the Vieira-Petit axis, and later on on the Vieira-Gilberto Silva axis. Now they don't have anybody in the same class as those two. Diaby, Song and Denilson are more inclined to try and go forward and are not what I'd describe as naturally disciplined. United's best side in recent memory was in 2008 when they had Hargreaves in the side. None of Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson are similar to him and they almost revert to having Scholes sitting deeper these days. At the very top level against Barca or Madrid for example I think their lack of a top class defensive midfielder will catch up with them. City have De Jong who you could argue is one of their most important players. Spurs have Huddlestone and Palacios who I'd take in a heartbeat at Liverpool.

Which brings the conversation round to us. You don't realise what you've got till it's gone in many ways. We were lucky to have Hamann for years who was a superb player in that position and then after him we had Mascherano who formed a brilliant partnership alongside Alonso (sighs). Whatever Rafa may have you believe, Lucas was not a defensive midfielder before he came here and shouldn't be moulded into one because he likes to get forward. Charlie Adam if he comes is not that type of player either. Spearing is not good enough long term.

So suggestions for a top class defensive midfielder going forward? Personally I'd have a look at this Mulumbu kid at West Brom. He cost them 175k and has looked class everytime I have seen him. Tiote at Newcastle has been excellent aswell but he'd cost at least 3 times the £4m they paid for him and he's just signed a new 5 year contract anyway.

by **tubby** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:56 pm

We need Danielle De Rossi

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:03 pm

I'd like Parker, proven, unsassuming, just quietly does his job a la Didi. 30 years old though and would cost too much

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:38 pm

Joey Barton :buttrock

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:42 pm

nor Barton and Parker are ''defensive midfielders'', they are more box to box, who carry the ball forward and score goals.

Although Daniel De Rossi is class, he is getting old, so we need a younger player.

Yann M'Villa looks class act

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:43 pm

metalhead wrote:nor Barton and Parker are ''defensive midfielders'', they are more box to box, who carry the ball forward and score goals.

Although Daniel De Rossi is class, he is getting old, so we need a younger player.

Yann M'Villa looks class act

Watch Parker for England, hes the holding midfielder

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:46 pm

dawson99 wrote:
metalhead wrote:nor Barton and Parker are ''defensive midfielders'', they are more box to box, who carry the ball forward and score goals.

Although Daniel De Rossi is class, he is getting old, so we need a younger player.

Yann M'Villa looks class act

Watch Parker for England, hes the holding midfielder

He isn't, Barry is

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:49 pm

oh i know! Diarra. he isn't getting much games at RM is he?

by **TarnRed** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:09 pm

Etienne Capoue, Yann M'Vila, Blaise Matuidi.

by **ethanr** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:01 pm

M'Villa would probably be a pretty decent possibility, but it depends on the system we want to play. If you play a 4-4-2, yes you could have a defensive CM. However, if KK wants to play the 4-3-3, which it seems many have pointed to as a very possible possibility, then I can't see having a defensive CM as productive. We need somebody that could help get the ball up to our attackers, Either Stevie, or even Charlie Adam or Steven Defour.

by **TarnRed** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:19 pm

ethanr wrote:M'Villa would probably be a pretty decent possibility, but it depends on the system we want to play. If you play a 4-4-2, yes you could have a defensive CM. However, if KK wants to play the 4-3-3, which it seems many have pointed to as a very possible possibility, then I can't see having a defensive CM as productive. We need somebody that could help get the ball up to our attackers, Either Stevie, or even Charlie Adam or Steven Defour.

The 433 formation is the exact opposite of what you have just described Ethanr. You generally find in any 433 formation you have a defensive midfielder and two very attack minded midfielders. M'Vila would be perfect for such a job in such a formation he's not only a very good enforcer type player but he has a very good array of passing.

by **ethanr** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:39 pm

TarnRed wrote:
ethanr wrote:M'Villa would probably be a pretty decent possibility, but it depends on the system we want to play. If you play a 4-4-2, yes you could have a defensive CM. However, if KK wants to play the 4-3-3, which it seems many have pointed to as a very possible possibility, then I can't see having a defensive CM as productive. We need somebody that could help get the ball up to our attackers, Either Stevie, or even Charlie Adam or Steven Defour.

The 433 formation is the exact opposite of what you have just described Ethanr. You generally find in any 433 formation you have a defensive midfielder and two very attack minded midfielders. M'Vila would be perfect for such a job in such a formation he's not only a very good enforcer type player but he has a very good array of passing.

Except if you have a 4-3-3 with no creativity through the middle, you can only play up the sides. Look at Masch. Great defensive mid, but he couldn't pass the ball more than 10 yards. We will be stuck with transitional problems once again. When chelsea used the 4-3-3 they always used Lampard in the middle.. Not Essien or Makelele. THey only played with he 4-4-2 formation. Yes we need to use the wings a lot more, but if you don't have the creativeness in the middle of the park, you go down one side and you stay down one side and become predictable, not to mention breaking our options down. You can't always play down the wings and you can't always play through the middle. You need creativity everywhere.

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:46 pm

TarnRed wrote:
ethanr wrote:M'Villa would probably be a pretty decent possibility, but it depends on the system we want to play. If you play a 4-4-2, yes you could have a defensive CM. However, if KK wants to play the 4-3-3, which it seems many have pointed to as a very possible possibility, then I can't see having a defensive CM as productive. We need somebody that could help get the ball up to our attackers, Either Stevie, or even Charlie Adam or Steven Defour.

The 433 formation is the exact opposite of what you have just described Ethanr. You generally find in any 433 formation you have a defensive midfielder and two very attack minded midfielders. M'Vila would be perfect for such a job in such a formation he's not only a very good enforcer type player but he has a very good array of passing.

I don't think he is very intelligent with the ball (well I have to watch more, just watched him against england and he looked class), though he is very similar to mascherano a very combatant defensive midfielder who tactically excellent, good in the air and a very good tackler

by **PabloMedina28** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:38 am

Yann M'Villa alongside Steven Defour or Eve Banega would be phenomenal.

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:53 am

ethanr wrote:Except if you have a 4-3-3 with no creativity through the middle, you can only play up the sides. Look at Masch. Great defensive mid, but he couldn't pass the ball more than 10 yards. We will be stuck with transitional problems once again. When chelsea used the 4-3-3 they always used Lampard in the middle.. Not Essien or Makelele. THey only played with he 4-4-2 formation. Yes we need to use the wings a lot more, but if you don't have the creativeness in the middle of the park, you go down one side and you stay down one side and become predictable, not to mention breaking our options down. You can't always play down the wings and you can't always play through the middle. You need creativity everywhere.

The problem at the moment is we can't be reliant on width from our fullbacks as we don't play a good enough possession game. Ideally we need both our fullbacks and wide attacking players to be able to provide width when it's needed or else we will struggle to break teams down. It has to be said that our "wide players" have struggled greatly this season as they are extremely one-dimensional.

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