Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:34 pm

Squad is sh!t when hit by injuries simple as that, Kenny is not the problem.

by **red till i die!!** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:48 pm

the first thing the owners need to do in the summer is spend and a lot too.
we have a squad full of complete and utter muck.
spearing,kuyt and lucas are some of the worst players ive ever seen wearing the red.
i couldnt give a hoot about honesty of effort and all that :censored:

,they arent good enough and never were but because they put in a shift it gets overlooked and becomes acceptable.
should kk get a 5 yr deal?? i hope not,give him till next season and see how it goes but not a long term deal.
70% of that squad need's shipping out over the next 2 windows or else its mid table all the way.

by **tubby** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:58 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
metalhead wrote:Your sounding like a hypocrite 7_Kewell, you were supporting Roy and blaming our quality of the squad before Kenny came to helm.

It is clear as daylight we have improved domestically under Kenny Dalglish, conceded far less goals and improved our home form. Let's face it our squad is poor, our defense and midfield is p!ss poor, without any improvement in the summer we will not progress, that is a fact.

Our inconsistency stems from the fact that we have a very average squad, its the same inconsistency that Rafa Benitez had when he first joined us.

Let's not knee jerk here, time will tell if King Kenny has it in him to challenge for the title and win the league. I'm confident we will win it with him

I'm not trying to knock Kenny, i'm trying to get some debate going about how our club moves forward. Next season will be so very important for the club seeing and it's vital we get things right in the dugout. I'm worried...hpoe i'm wrong, but i'm worried.

If you want to talk about how the club can move forward in the summer then talk about the new stadium or new players. Kenny is the man for the job, or at least he has been when we have been winning this season.

Fk sake we have hardly brought in any fresh blood. Ok 2 decent strikers but without any more quality in midfield we are never going to see the best of them. So wind yer neck in till the summer once we have rebuilt the squad properly.

by **cptrios** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Kenny's done a hell of a lot better with this squad than Roy did. Simple as that. If you think we should have won every match with the likes of our team...well, I don't know what to say. I agree with SOME of your points:

• Yes, bringing on Cole 5 minutes from time was an odd move
• Yes, I HATE HATE HATE that we turn in sh!t performances against the sh!t teams when obviously, even with our sub-par squad, we have the quality to at least edge them out.

However I don't think the problems today were Kenny's fault at all. He couldn't have prevented the two injuries, and he couldn't have changed the fact that we have little choice other than to start the likes of Jay Spearing, etc. Kenny has no power over his players' tendons (though I'm really starting to wonder if there isn't something amiss with our trainers/physios/facilities) and muscles. I mean hell, just look at how many of KK's preferred players are unavailable: Gerrard, Kelly, Agger, Johnson, Shelvey. That's four starters and a very solid substitute (who plays like he has something to prove, unlike Spearing). The man came in with an absolute mountain to climb, and it's only gotten higher since he arrived. Thankfully, he's been climbing it just about as well as he could have, in my opinion.

Honestly, did anyone even think in December that we'd be considering Europe at this point? I get the idea that the new ownership needs to be damn sure about their managerial decision...but to judge Kenny badly on what he's done with this team (especially on a day like today) is unfair. Is Kenny the absolute best man for the job? I can't say that...but I also don't know who'd be better. Let him bring in a new winger, a new fullback, a new CB, and maybe a new CM, and things'll look a lot rosier next year.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:40 pm

metalhead wrote:Your sounding like a hypocrite 7_Kewell, you were supporting Roy and blaming our quality of the squad before Kenny came to helm.

He's one of the biggest whoppers going.

I've no doubts whatsoever that had Johnson and Agger not limped off, we'd have won that game comfortably. It might not have been pretty, but we'd have done the job. All today's game did was illustrate our severe lack of balance in the first team when you take out our only natural form of width in Johnson and the ball distrubtion abilities from the back to wide areas from Agger, who is our only center half that is comfortable with the ball at his feet. The rest usually hoof, especially with not a single wide man to hit. Gerrard not being in the middle also lends to the lack of width as he can drift from side to side to produce balls into the area and spray the ball around. If you factor in five quality additions in the summer, each adept at their resective positions, especially in wide areas, then the side is transformed. It's transformed as it is when you add in Gerrard, Kelly, Agger and Johnson, all of whome were missing for the majority of today's game. Get some f*cking perspective, OP.

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:43 am

(though I'm really starting to wonder if there isn't something amiss with our trainers/physios/facilities) and muscles.

I can't fault the physios,Agger is vulnerable glass waiting to be broken, while Johnson had 2 games in midweek with England, so there was a chance of fatigue and injury. These things happen in football and its just bad luck I'm afraid

I've no doubts whatsoever that had Johnson and Agger not limped off, we'd have won that game comfortably. It might not have been pretty, but we'd have done the job. All today's game did was illustrate our severe lack of balance in the first team when you take out our only natural form of width in Johnson and the ball distrubtion abilities from the back to wide areas from Agger, who is our only center half that is comfortable with the ball at his feet. The rest usually hoof, especially with not a single wide man to hit. Gerrard not being in the middle also lends to the lack of width as he can drift from side to side to produce balls into the area and spray the ball around. If you factor in five quality additions in the summer, each adept at their resective positions, especially in wide areas, then the side is transformed. It's transformed as it is when you add in Gerrard, Kelly, Agger and Johnson, all of whome were missing for the majority of today's game.

Pretty much sums up our injury problems. We have 3 of our best defenders and one of our best midfielders out injured, so we are bound to struggle in terms of football. We looked too one dimensional and that is down to the lack of quality players in the field, has nothing to do with Kenny, just lack of quality.

by **ethanr** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:52 am

Emerald Red wrote:
metalhead wrote:Your sounding like a hypocrite 7_Kewell, you were supporting Roy and blaming our quality of the squad before Kenny came to helm.

He's one of the biggest whoppers going.

I've no doubts whatsoever that had Johnson and Agger not limped off, we'd have won that game comfortably. It might not have been pretty, but we'd have done the job. All today's game did was illustrate our severe lack of balance in the first team when you take out our only natural form of width in Johnson and the ball distrubtion abilities from the back to wide areas from Agger, who is our only center half that is comfortable with the ball at his feet. The rest usually hoof, especially with not a single wide man to hit. Gerrard not being in the middle also lends to the lack of width as he can drift from side to side to produce balls into the area and spray the ball around. If you factor in five quality additions in the summer, each adept at their resective positions, especially in wide areas, then the side is transformed. It's transformed as it is when you add in Gerrard, Kelly, Agger and Johnson, all of whome were missing for the majority of today's game. Get some f*cking perspective, OP.

Ya I can agree with that. Agger's the only CB who can play the ball from the back, and even tho he was playing on the left wing, that's even better because we are best when Johnson's on the left and Kelly's on the right. They both get up and send in much better balls then our right and left mids. When we loss Johnson I thought we were in trouble and when Agger went out I knew we were in trouble. Those are the 2 (since Kelly's out) players that are best at transitioning from the back. We lost those 2 and there wen't any sense of productive play from the back..

It was like the further up the pitch we could get the ball, the better, but we had a 25% chance of getting it from the defense to the mids, then only 25% they could get it to the strikers in some position. Carroll disappeared in the second half because nobody was getting him the ball other than hoofing it. Last half hour, every time Suarez got the ball I could just see the WBA players sh!ting themselves.. They knew they couldn't handle him and he had quite a few incredible runs down the byline. He was unlucky not to score and even more unlucky not to get an assist, especially on that perfect pass to Meireles that he somehow missed the target on.

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:26 am

Emerald Red wrote:
metalhead wrote:Your sounding like a hypocrite 7_Kewell, you were supporting Roy and blaming our quality of the squad before Kenny came to helm.

He's one of the biggest whoppers going.

I've no doubts whatsoever that had Johnson and Agger not limped off, we'd have won that game comfortably. It might not have been pretty, but we'd have done the job. All today's game did was illustrate our severe lack of balance in the first team when you take out our only natural form of width in Johnson and the ball distrubtion abilities from the back to wide areas from Agger, who is our only center half that is comfortable with the ball at his feet. The rest usually hoof, especially with not a single wide man to hit. Gerrard not being in the middle also lends to the lack of width as he can drift from side to side to produce balls into the area and spray the ball around. If you factor in five quality additions in the summer, each adept at their resective positions, especially in wide areas, then the side is transformed. It's transformed as it is when you add in Gerrard, Kelly, Agger and Johnson, all of whome were missing for the majority of today's game. Get some f*cking perspective, OP.

take out Agger? He's been injured constantly for 4 years!

Bottom line is, we should beat WBA....our team has the quality and it worries me deeply that we cannot do that. likewise, West Ham, Braga...we're mid table fodder, despite the addition of 60 million quids worth of talent.

And for the record, i think we're better without Torres

by **shabelle50** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:36 am

Stats wise under Kenny we've shown CL form but I don't entirely swallow the argument that had he been in charge all season we'd be in the top four now.

I don't know whether Damien Commolli is as convinced as NESV that Kenny is the right long term choice for the club.

I suspect that anything less than a sixth placed finish at the end of the season may convince Mr Henry to keep the club's options on the next appointment. That could result in Kenny only getting a one year deal or other options being considered this summer.

To be honest though with this group of players whoever is the manager will find it tough. The squad needs reshaping and changing for the long term. The fans are happy to go with Kenny at the moment because of his affinity with the club and his past record. I wonder if his recent reluctance to talk about the future may be because he doesn't believe he can turn it around long term.

by **Reg** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:12 am

Sure Kenny makes mistakes, he hasn't been in football management for 10 years. What do you expect, Mourinho style intimate knowledge and perfection?

Any idea how long it takes to urn around any business thats on the rocks? Folks have to remain both realistic and sensible. :idea

by **Kenny Kan** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:53 am

Kenny isn't the problem here no way and not with Steve Clarke behind him. If we start this caper will end up like R.Madird and Newcastle changing managers every five minutes, it's not going to bring stability at all.

I honestly think ANY manager would struggle with this squad; Rafa did, Roy did and even Kenny although he's moved us up from the delirious state we were in under Roy does have issues with this squad too.

It's as plain as the nose on your face, the players we have at our disposal are mediocre and there are no two ways about it. Midfield has crumbled and we're now playing the likes of Spearing and Lucas as our midfield axis

teams in the relegation dogfight have got better CM partnerships than that, yesterday showed this and even old Roy and his negative tactics could get his midfield to dominate ours. Merieles, the bloke needs a position ASAP, I have no idea where he played yesterday and Kenny really should have played him in the middle of a three man offensive mid but I didn't see that until the end of the game.

Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas (LOOK AT THESE NAMES FFS) even Carra, need to be replaced so does Agger, and Merieles needs to work on a position that optimises his ability. Ah.... It just goes on, in short the squad needs an overhaul and Kenny needs the time to build the foundations, yes guys and girls we're bobcatting the landscape for the foundations to be put into place, it will take a while before we see out of a window.

by **ethanr** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:45 am

Reg wrote:Sure Kenny makes mistakes, he hasn't been in football management for 10 years. What do you expect, Mourinho style intimate knowledge and perfection?

Any idea how long it takes to urn around any business thats on the rocks? Folks have to remain both realistic and sensible.

Spot on.

Give KK a little time. He can look back during the summer and see what he could have done differently.

It's more important to have a manager that can install hope, passion and desire into the club and the fans then to have one who has no association to the club but is tactically smart.

Tho the U.S went with the whole hope thing and now we are fecked with Obama

by **kazza** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:44 am

I just wished we had bought Suarez and David Luiz instead of Caroll and Suarez as we are hurting for a commanding defender. The big teams have 20 million squid plus defenders but in our team you could not get 20 million if you sold them all (central defenders obviously). I think buying two attackers was merely to pacify the fans rather than the immediate needs of the team.

I am happy sticking with Kenny as he does the job from his heart, and that cannot be under estimated. Come summer there will be a fair bit of movement, hopefully Kenny is not one of them. The team will get stronger and hense the manager will look better.

by **crazyhorse** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:55 am

We all know this season is over as far as we are concerned. Give Kenny a contract and a few quid to spend in the summer. Then make judgements.

by **Dalglish** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:17 pm

This is an extremely difficult thread to respond to in a way that doesn't appear to be either for or against the legend that is Kenny Dalglish.........

Just because Kenny has steadied a sinking ship of a team that we had become under Hodgson does not automatically mean he is the right manager to take us forward for years to come. You could argue that many managers could have improved the performances after Roy's unfortunate tenure but you can't argue with results and Kenny has brought a lot of missing pride and passion back.

Not to extend Kenny's contract beyond summer is unthinkable at the moment on an emotional level but when you consider we probably need a 5 year plan can you see Kenny still being as involved and active in 2016 ? Some would point to Sir Andrex as an example of someone who still cuts it but he has been there for 20 years !

Personally I would like us to look upon Kenny as a mentor for a up and coming manager who has shown loads of promise. The guy in mind is Paul Lambert, current manager Norwich where in under 2 years has done an unbelievable job there. When he took over at Norwich at the start of last season they had been relegated into Division 1 and were bottom. Since then he has taken them to the brink of the Premiership, never lost 2 games on the bounce, has bought well and has players who will run through brick walls for him, competes against clubs with much bigger budgets (Cardiff, QPR, Leeds, Forest etc...) and he's Scottish !

Kenny can't and won't go on forever and you sense he is having the time of his life at the club he truly loves. Whatever happens, the club needs to deal sensitively and respectfully to the legend that is Kenny Dalglish.

Walk on ..............

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