Liverpool FC Forum

Zidane wrote:He's far better than average, average would be Jay Spearing, Ryan Babel or Paul Konchesky.  Average isn't good enough for Liverpool, Lucas is.  He's bossed midfield numerous times this season average players don't do that.

Thommo's perm wrote:Dont paint yourself into a corner with "All them managers can't be wrong surely..." because all managers are wrong alot of the time. I accept that he has improved, but some might say he couldnt get any worse.
He is at best an average player and the only thing that will convince me hes not is if he stops being an average player.
Until then, it is what it is

parchpea wrote:The lads done better but 5 years is a heck of a deal and commitment which personally I dont think hes worth. Maybe a 3 year tops but not tied in for 5. At this point I dont doubt hes one of our better options in that position but frankly hes has no competition whatsoever. I hope he goes on to be the standard of player we need to progress this football team over the period of his deal, I really do, but somehow I dont see him being a key piece in a side that can genuinely return this football club back the top end of English football.

Kenny Kan wrote:It's simple really: average players make average teams, not title contenders.

stmichael wrote:

Kenny Kan wrote:It's simple really: average players make average teams, not title contenders.

What are United this season then? They have 4-5 top class players and that's it. Their whole midfield is average at best. I'd take Lucas over any of Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson.

Lucas is a vital cog in the wheel who allows other players to express themselves more. Mikel and Ramires do it at Chelsea. Song does it at Arsenal. These players aren't what I'd call "top class" but their teams seem to do ok.

metalhead wrote:

stmichael wrote:

Kenny Kan wrote:It's simple really: average players make average teams, not title contenders.

What are United this season then? They have 4-5 top class players and that's it. Their whole midfield is average at best. I'd take Lucas over any of Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson.

Lucas is a vital cog in the wheel who allows other players to express themselves more. Mikel and Ramires do it at Chelsea. Song does it at Arsenal. These players aren't what I'd call "top class" but their teams seem to do ok.

The league has been very average to say at least.

Mancs won't hit the 86 point mark that we got in 2008/2009 season, in which we finished second place

Igor Zidane wrote:

Thommo's perm wrote:Dont paint yourself into a corner with "All them managers can't be wrong surely..." because all managers are wrong alot of the time. I accept that he has improved, but some might say he couldnt get any worse.
He is at best an average player and the only thing that will convince me hes not is if he stops being an average player.
Until then, it is what it is

I'm not painting myself into a corner atall . I'm taking comfort in the fact that those managers are of the same opinion as me . Which helps me take encouragement in my judgement on a player . I don't no what you want from lucas thommo , i really don't . Do you want him to be an alonso , or maybe another gerrard or kaka or friggin maradona . It's not happening mate and it never will . He will be an ever present reliable shield and that's it .

Kenny Kan wrote:Players like Kuyt and Lucas through no fault of their own do the old reverse psychology trick, what happens, especially in the case of Lucas is that everyone to begin with can see that he's an average player, on top of that he may have a few stinkers and then out come the fans slating him. By this time a lot are on his case - a scapegoat if you will. However, he keeps playing and persists, and plays some good games too. Meanwhile the majority of fans while realising he isn't the bees knees turn around and then back him for his honesty and performances (even when their not that good, so desperate it seems they want him to prove his doubters wrong), because they're fed up of hearing their fellow fans slate him over a period of time but after while they believe, or have convinced themselves that Lucas is actually a really great player while defending him against others who think he's average. In reality they've gone out in sympathy for the bloke hoping they and him can turn around and give a two fingered salute to all his doubters.

Thommo's perm wrote:

Kenny Kan wrote:Players like Kuyt and Lucas through no fault of their own do the old reverse psychology trick, what happens, especially in the case of Lucas is that everyone to begin with can see that he's an average player, on top of that he may have a few stinkers and then out come the fans slating him. By this time a lot are on his case - a scapegoat if you will. However, he keeps playing and persists, and plays some good games too. Meanwhile the majority of fans while realising he isn't the bees knees turn around and then back him for his honesty and performances (even when their not that good, so desperate it seems they want him to prove his doubters wrong), because they're fed up of hearing their fellow fans slate him over a period of time but after while they believe, or have convinced themselves that Lucas is actually a really great player while defending him against others who think he's average. In reality they've gone out in sympathy for the bloke hoping they and him can turn around and give a two fingered salute to all his doubters.

And I salute you for your honesty...

SouthCoastShankly wrote:

metalhead wrote:

stmichael wrote:

Kenny Kan wrote:It's simple really: average players make average teams, not title contenders.

What are United this season then? They have 4-5 top class players and that's it. Their whole midfield is average at best. I'd take Lucas over any of Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson.

Lucas is a vital cog in the wheel who allows other players to express themselves more. Mikel and Ramires do it at Chelsea. Song does it at Arsenal. These players aren't what I'd call "top class" but their teams seem to do ok.

The league has been very average to say at least.

Mancs won't hit the 86 point mark that we got in 2008/2009 season, in which we finished second place

Poor wording.

You mean the good teams have been average. If anything the league has been better than average as it is so tight this year.

Leagues should be judged on how competitive they are. You won't any other league as competitive across all positions as the Premier League.

Thommo's perm wrote:

Igor Zidane wrote:

Thommo's perm wrote:Dont paint yourself into a corner with "All them managers can't be wrong surely..." because all managers are wrong alot of the time. I accept that he has improved, but some might say he couldnt get any worse.
He is at best an average player and the only thing that will convince me hes not is if he stops being an average player.
Until then, it is what it is

I'm not painting myself into a corner atall . I'm taking comfort in the fact that those managers are of the same opinion as me . Which helps me take encouragement in my judgement on a player . I don't no what you want from lucas thommo , i really don't . Do you want him to be an alonso , or maybe another gerrard or kaka or friggin maradona . It's not happening mate and it never will . He will be an ever present reliable shield and that's it .

Igor Ive said many times that Ive got nothing against Lucas. He is an honest, hard working (ish) fringe player. No alarms and no surprises. I dont have high expectations so he doesnt let me down. I have been waiting for years for him to develop into this "great player" and if it hasnt happened now I dont think thats going to happen at all.
Squad player? Probably. First choice? Narrr.

Kenny Kan wrote:

Thommo's perm wrote:

Kenny Kan wrote:Players like Kuyt and Lucas through no fault of their own do the old reverse psychology trick, what happens, especially in the case of Lucas is that everyone to begin with can see that he's an average player, on top of that he may have a few stinkers and then out come the fans slating him. By this time a lot are on his case - a scapegoat if you will. However, he keeps playing and persists, and plays some good games too. Meanwhile the majority of fans while realising he isn't the bees knees turn around and then back him for his honesty and performances (even when their not that good, so desperate it seems they want him to prove his doubters wrong), because they're fed up of hearing their fellow fans slate him over a period of time but after while they believe, or have convinced themselves that Lucas is actually a really great player while defending him against others who think he's average. In reality they've gone out in sympathy for the bloke hoping they and him can turn around and give a two fingered salute to all his doubters.

And I salute you for your honesty...

I'm one of his critics not one of the sympathy brigade (I don't want to start a labelling war with - sympathy brigade).